Warning to new owners.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I think some folks need to take a small step back and not be so offended at an attempt to warn about a potential danger. Let's face it, aerosols can be NASTY and if you use one excessively around a snake, it could, potentially, cause some serious problems. Can we say definitively that it killed this particular snake? Of course not. But that doesn't mean the warning is invalid. Take it or leave it...but there's no reason to crucify someone who is just posting an anecdote that might help someone think before fumigating a small space with deodorant or hair spray or air freshener or whatever. :rolleyes:

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We now have a new owner who is giving us vague warnings about a couple of things - first three deaths (from a "friend") due to pine shavings now another death (again from a "friend") due to butane and "parfum" from deodorant complete with a necropsy confirming butane and "parfum" as the culprits.

I'll be upfront and baldly state that the pine shavings claim is utter and complete bull crap.

I will also be upfront and state that I would never argue that spraying the heck out of your snake with an aerosol is probably not a good idea. But, I find inconsistency with these statements:

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

i was thinking because of the toxicity of aerosols it could of killed the snake because they can easily kill humans..

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........in which the cause of death was potentially due to aerosols and 22 minutes later in which the OP stated:

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Originally Posted by SRMD94

My friend told me he had a necropsy, but i was very busy at the time not hearing all the information he was saying he defiently had the necropsy but i can vaguely remember something about chemicals, or airways in the snake were blocked with toxic chemicals something across those lines.

high levels of butane/parfum? im not sure i dont remember the conversation with him much about this when i next talk to him ill let you know.

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...in which all of a sudden the death was confirmed by a necropsy, complete with airways blocked with toxic chemicals.

Sorry Judy, I'm all for sharing important information and I don't doubt that heavily dousing aerosols could kill a snake, but in this case, something smells funny.

Since the friend had a necropsy, I will be more than glad to assist the OP with posting the results here.

Having just returned from a long trip, I can't speak to any history about the OP. All I know is I found a PM about this from the OP and I was the one who suggested that maybe they should start a thread about it if they were that concerned. And the moment that person does so, the very first response they get is "Please don't bother posting anything unless you have absolute scientific proof of your words." Yeah, it rubbed me the wrong way, and still does.

I'm all for holding people accountable for their words. And I do get tired of the plethora of misinformation out there that gets spouted as "truth" for no other reason than because it's been repeated so many times. (The pine shavings being one of those examples, for sure.) So I can understand wishing the OP had maybe worded their anecdote a little differently...but slamming them for caring enough to post in the first place is...I think...getting a bit too snooty. None of us were born experts....either in the care of reptiles, or in how best to communicate on the Internet. And BP.net is not, never has been, and never will be "too good" for beginners to share their experiences and concerns.

I know not everyone is going to tip toe through tulips with the newbies. And I also appreciate the candid nature of our membership that is not afraid to speak their mind when they feel something is seriously amiss. But when I see what looks like a harmless caution get slammed immediately for no apparently good reason, and then others dog pile on (because that's human nature and it's more fun to pick on someone's faults than to pull back and realize there's nothing really to pick on) then I WILL step in and speak my mind about that and remind people that we're not "above" the beginner around here.

I'm not saying that everyone who participated was "dog piling" so if you really don't think that statement applies to you, then by all means, please assume I did not include you in that thought. Sometimes it's impossible to step into a situation like this and remind people to be nice without stepping on trusted toes that have also participated in the thread.

In the end, I'd MUCH rather have someone caution us against potentially dangerous activity than to come on and say, "I spray all sorts of crap around my snakes all day long and they're just fine...so it's obvious that there's never any danger in spraying anything around your snakes ever."

The OP posts a caution that certainly can't hurt anyone to consider. It's fine to question details and ask for more information....but it's NOT fine to tell someone they have no right to post their story simply because they didn't present it in a way everyone found scientifically sound and believable.

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Originally Posted by JLC

"Please don't bother posting anything unless you have absolute scientific proof of your words." Yeah, it rubbed me the wrong way, and still does.

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So I read this and felt that it was directed at me.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I'm not saying that everyone who participated was "dog piling" so if you really don't think that statement applies to you, then by all means, please assume I did not include you in that thought.

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Then I read this and decided that it wasn't.

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Originally Posted by JLC

In the end, I'd MUCH rather have someone caution us against potentially dangerous activity than to come on and say, "I spray all sorts of crap around my snakes all day long and they're just fine...so it's obvious that there's never any danger in spraying anything around your snakes ever."

...but it's NOT fine to tell someone they have no right to post their story simply because they didn't present it in a way everyone found scientifically sound and believable.

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Then I read this and felt pretty sure that it was directed at me.

1) Please tell me where I told the OP that they had no right to post their story?
2) You're twisting my words around to make your own point. I didn't say anything close to what you put in quotes in the third part of your post that I quoted. I merely gave my experience with the situation that the OP described, and instead of one snake I have had at times as many as 5 or 6 individual snakes in the room in question. He told what happened to a friend, I gave first hand experience.
3) In no way was what I wrote condescending or impolite, nor was anything that anyone else wrote, save for maybe the posts by KMG and heylookitsjon.

I'm not going to twist your words around to help make my point, I'll just quote what you said. Rather than all of us "take a small step back and not be so offended," I think it might help if you did. The OP was trying to help and I acknowledged that in a previous post, where others did not. I alluded to this in my posts but I think that Slim put it best so I will quote him here, and it is why I posted in the way that I did:

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Originally Posted by Slim

This has always been, and will continue to be a helpful forum, however, misinformation, disinformation, and ill formed theories based on rumor are rarely helpful.

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I would like to see the necropsy report just because i am curious. I have one of those air wick spray things(that goes off every 30 mins) just to keep my reptile room stinking the house up after my BD poops. I have not seen a problem in any of my animals and they have been in this condition for a few months now. I would i like to see if the aerosol is the cause of death for your friends BP. Please post a copy of the necropsy.
Tom

Well it could be quite possible that the aerosol did kill it.

I have and never will spray any thing in my bedroom or around any of my pets. Dogs and cats included. I though it was just common knowledge that you shouldn't use any kind of aerosol or spray of any kind near any pets or animals. But now a days it seems common knowledge is lacking everywhere in the world.

Unless he hangs out with Snookie and pals or is still in HS shouldn't be wearing that axe crap anyways. :p sucks about the snake. Doubt that was why it happened tho. Pet store probably went with that hypothesis to skirt blame.

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I've got a lot of respect for Judy, so I'm going to word this very carefully............

While I don't think her reply was aimed at me, I understand the point she was trying to make - and respect that true knowledge knows no experience level. In other words, a valid observation or tip is valid based on it's own merits - and not dependent on who dispenses it.

It is undoubtably solid advice to warn people not to spray heavy aerosols or use chemicals with VOCs around your snake. It is however disingenous to make a habit of concocting anecdotes around invisible "friends" to gain credibility.

My offer to the OP stands - I would love to see the necropsy. I am interested to see what test methods the pathologist used to determine that "the airways were blocked with toxic chemicals" and whether these were actual clogged nares or something else. I know that propellants are respiratory irritants, but I have never heard of one "blocking" anything............

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

1) Please tell me where I told the OP that they had no right to post their story?

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Here:

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

Unless a necropsy was completed and it was determined that the use of aerosols is what killed the snake then please don't come on a forum like this and start making those kinds of claims.

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Whether I misread your intent or not...that is how it sounded to me, and is what I took exception to. And my point for posting what I do (in addition to reminders to those inclined to be rude or harsh simply for the sake of being rude or harsh) is to try and make it clear to the OP and others who may also read and be offended/scared off by the harsh response that it is NOT always like that here and we try not to be.

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

2) You're twisting my words around to make your own point. I didn't say anything close to what you put in quotes in the third part of your post that I quoted. I merely gave my experience with the situation that the OP described, and instead of one snake I have had at times as many as 5 or 6 individual snakes in the room in question. He told what happened to a friend, I gave first hand experience.

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THIS I do apologize for and understand where you are coming from. My example at comparing what I see here and what I'd rather not see had nothing to do with your own experience...it was merely meant to compare/contrast the exact opposite sort of "warning" that someone might come here to give. But I can understand that the similarity of your story and my example might make you think I was pointing fingers at you and I was not. I should have been more careful and made an attempt to differentiate the two.

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

3) In no way was what I wrote condescending or impolite, nor was anything that anyone else wrote, save for maybe the posts by KMG and heylookitsjon.

I'm not going to twist your words around to help make my point, I'll just quote what you said. Rather than all of us "take a small step back and not be so offended," I think it might help if you did. The OP was trying to help and I acknowledged that in a previous post, where others did not. I alluded to this in my posts but I think that Slim put it best so I will quote him here, and it is why I posted in the way that I did:

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Then maybe KMG and heylookitsjon need to read what I wrote.

Everyone will take from it what they will. Some will care and some won't. Some will get offended and some won't. I can't change any of that...but I can, and will, always work to try and keep the overall atmosphere of BP.net a positive one.

I guess it is just my nature to always want something to be backed up with evidence given my schooling and work in biological fields. All studies are seeking to find results, or evidence, and the explanation part of a paper will be support by their findings. Can't blame me for that, right?

Glad that all misunderstandings are cleared up and that we can all move on with our lives. I just spent the last 10 minutes in the shower thinking to myself "Crap, I hope I don't get slapped with an infraction for speaking my mind!" LOL And then I put on my Axe spray on deodorant. And no, Otolith, I don't hang with Snookie (I can't stand Jersey shore) nor am I still in high school (not for the last 9 years). Is there a problem with wanting to smell good? :rolleyes: LOL

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

And no, Otolith, I don't hang with Snookie (I can't stand Jersey shore) nor am I still in high school (not for the last 9 years). Is there a problem with wanting to smell good? :rolleyes: LOL

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Hehe. I was just trying to be funny. :D I am guilty of letting calgon take me away and glitter body spray on occassion myself. My faves all come in glass bottles tho :p jp

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