Quick question, is getting a BEL really as simple as putting two Mojaves together?

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I want an english bulldog puppy too! Theyre one of my favorite breeds, i love their faces. If you get one before me i wanna come over and play with it haha!

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Lol! Deal. You will either have to come to Florida or wait until I bring him to Massachusetts with me though. I go to Mass every summer for a week, and once I get the pup he will come with me. It might be an easier drive for you though if you waited till I came to New England. :P

Ball python genetics are truly awesome, and fascinating.

Here's what's happening.
If you were to breed a spider to a pastel, you would probably get some bumblebees. A bumblebee, unsurprisingly, looks like a pastel spider. It doesn't look like a super pastel. When you breed it, it can pass on both the spider and pastel gene, so it can produce more bumblebees.

However, some morph genes are on the same allele. That means (roughly, this isn't completely accurate) that they are different mutations of the SAME gene. Since they're mutations of the same gene, when you breed, say, a lesser to a mojave, if the offspring inherit the lesser gene AND the mojave gene, the same super form is produced as if you bred two of the same morph together (or nearly the same--differences have to do with which of the two genes is more dominant in that situation, most likely, and how they interact--the potion is definitely different-looking).

Because they're different mutations of the SAME gene, the snake can only pass on one copy of that gene--it will be the mutant copy 1 (lesser), or the mutant copy 2 (mojave). So, all offspring from it WILL DEFINITELY have either the lesser gene, or the mojave gene, but cannot have both.

The BEL complex includes Lesser Platinum/Butter (believed by many to be line bred versions of the same morph, rather than separate morphs), Mojave, Russo (aka het White Diamond), Mystic, Phantom (Mystic and Phantom may also be variations of the same morph--not sure on that one), and Mocha. (I think that's all of them).
Any of these morph genes paired with any other of these morph genes will produce the BEL. Which two are involved will dictate what the offspring will be. In other words, if you have a lesser X lesser BEL, all offspring of it will carry the lesser gene. If you have a Russo X Mocha BEL, they will all be either Russos or Mochas.

The BEL complex contains MANY morphs, but new morphs are being found in other complexes (such as black-eyed leucistic), as well.

Allelic genes have made the morph game SO much more fun.
My favorite recent discovery is that Candy and Toffee are part of the Albino complex.

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Originally Posted by M&H

Albinos are tricky because they are recessive. In order to get an albino Spider you would need two Spider het for albino or a Spider albino and a Spider het for albino. Although it's easier to make albinos! I have a side albino project that is small but I LOVE albinos :D

You are welcome, good luck with your project! Let us know what you decide to do. :gj:

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when breeding for a spider albino, both male and female has to carry the albino gene, but only one of them needs the spider gene not both. spider isn't recessive.

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Originally Posted by don15681

when breeding for a spider albino, both male and female has to carry the albino gene, but only one of them needs the spider gene not both. spider isn't recessive.

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Yes you are right, just thinking off the top of my head the different combos that could result in one.

To simplify things a bit....

When looking at odds, think of Supers or anything that is in a "complex" (BEL, YB, etc...) as if they were recessive. Meaning, you need TWO genes to make it happen, just like a recessive. Therefore, Mojave = het BEL, Lesser = het BEL, Butter = het BEL etc... So, like a recessive, it cannot reproduce itself to a normal.

The nice part is you have a visual for the het since the genes are incomplete dominant.


As for odds, if you already have a BEL, and breed to another single gene in the complex your odds of hitting another BEL increase to 50% (not 25% as mentioned earlier in this thread)


Now let us clear up VISUALS of the BEL (All have Blue Eyes as afar as I know).

Mojo X Mojo gives a grey headed BEL.
Mojo X Lesser/Butter (the same morph IMO) gives an all white snake with the possibility of a faint yellow stripe.
Lesser/Butter X Lesser/Butter again gives a all white snake with the chance for bug eyes.
Super Russo gives white snake with white stripe
And so forth and so on with mixes of theses genes (add in Mocha as well)

NOW, the others in the complex...

Special X Mojo wil give a Crystal (Orangish yellow pattern)
Super Special is similar to the Crystal
Phantom/Mystic (another same mutation IMO) X Mojo will give a Passion/Potion - a PURPLE snake with a yellow stripe
Super Phantom/Mystic is similar to the Passion/Potion
Phantom/Mystic X Lesser gives another white snake (Karma Ball for the Phantom Lesser)

There are more combinations, but I think those illustrate the idea.

Anyway, what is so special about a BEL.....

My Lesser Mojo:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...GUN_ALPHA1.jpg

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Originally Posted by jinx667

To simplify things a bit....

When looking at odds, think of Supers or anything that is in a "complex" (BEL, YB, etc...) as if they were recessive. Meaning, you need TWO genes to make it happen, just like a recessive. Therefore, Mojave = het BEL, Lesser = het BEL, Butter = het BEL etc... So, like a recessive, it cannot reproduce itself to a normal.

The nice part is you have a visual for the het since the genes are incomplete dominant.


As for odds, if you already have a BEL, and breed to another single gene in the complex your odds of hitting another BEL increase to 50% (not 25% as mentioned earlier in this thread)


Now let us clear up VISUALS of the BEL (All have Blue Eyes as afar as I know).

Mojo X Mojo gives a grey headed BEL.
Mojo X Lesser/Butter (the same morph IMO) gives an all white snake with the possibility of a faint yellow stripe.
Lesser/Butter X Lesser/Butter again gives a all white snake with the chance for bug eyes.
Super Russo gives white snake with white stripe
And so forth and so on with mixes of theses genes (add in Mocha as well)

NOW, the others in the complex...

Special X Mojo wil give a Crystal (Orangish yellow pattern)
Super Special is similar to the Crystal
Phantom/Mystic (another same mutation IMO) X Mojo will give a Passion/Potion - a PURPLE snake with a yellow stripe
Super Phantom/Mystic is similar to the Passion/Potion
Phantom/Mystic X Lesser gives another white snake (Karma Ball for the Phantom Lesser)

There are more combinations, but I think those illustrate the idea.

Anyway, what is so special about a BEL.....

My Lesser Mojo:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...GUN_ALPHA1.jpg

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Great looking Lucy!!!

These are in my future plans. Pastave x Lesser

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Originally Posted by adamfritzsche

I know that normally with a 2 gene to a normal you can still produce another 2 gene.

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I'm going for a stab at simplifying this as well!

Some genes only need 1 copy to be 'visual' (Mojo, Lesser, Pastel)

Some of these that only need 1 gene look SUPER visual when there are 2 genes present (BEL)

Some genes need 2 copies to be 'visual' (Albino with 1 copy looks normal, 2 copies is visual)

Genes that need 2 copies to be 'visual' can't look any more awesome because there's only 2 parents

Now imagine the genes from each parent to be zippers that will copy themselves and re-zip to make the gene of the baby - only 1 half of the baby's zipper comes from each parent.

Mojo/Lesser parent only gives one half of its zipper - meaning only mojo or lesser as they are located at the same link of the zipper - a normal BP doesn't have the gene on the other half of the zipper to produce the SUPER visual form

Mojo/Pastel parent only gives one half of its zipper - since they aren't on the same link of the zipper it's possible for them to both be on the same half of the zipper at the same time - so even without the gene on the normal, one parent passed both visual properties


Was mine more or less complicated than the previous? Lol!

First it is the putting the mojave and mojave together.

Then its that awkward first date part.
Then its the long strolls on the beach.
Then its the Barry White music.
Then its the cooling down period.

and then whamo ...BEL lol

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

We bred Lesser X Butter last year and got 6 eggs.
1.2 BEL 1.0 lesser 0.1 Butter 1.0 normal

It is that easy :gj:
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/100_1469.jpg

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I would be interested in seeing the "lesser" vs "butter".

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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

I would be interested in seeing the "lesser" vs "butter".

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As would I. I'm always curious as to how you would distinguish them in a clutch like this.