Desert! To FAIL or not to FAil??????

Yes and no. Everything you see around you (every living species) is the result of millions upon millions of years of mutations. Mutations are completely random and have zero to do with the environment (barring radiation, etc). However, sometimes the mutation is beneficial in relation to its environment and allows an organism to produce more offspring to reproduction age than its competitors. The adaptation is pure chance but is happily taken advantage of. There are many mutations present that go unnoticed that are neither beneficial nor harmful.

A good example is the finches in the Galapagos island. If we take the finch with a thicker beak (good for cracking seeds) it was a mutation that originally gave it the thicker beak. It found a new food source (seeds) and was able to reproduce offspring with thicker beaks. The offspring with even thicker beaks were able to eat even more and thus grow quicker and reproduce earlier and more often and so on and so on, skewing the population towards thicker beaks. The thicker beak is now being positively selected for but it's initial introduction came from a mutation.

On re-reading, I apologize if I'm being too long winded. I occasionally instruct science and sometimes have trouble letting go when I get home.

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Originally Posted by RobNJ

While I'm in no position to argue genetics, I've always been under the impression that adaptation drives evolution, not mutation.

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adaptations are caused by mutations and vice versa, evolution is one big game of random mutation.

I think the desert combos are gorgeous, and I hope to maybe work with the gene some day ... However, there are a couple of factors that make me nervous about the potential female infertility issue.

Foremost is the fact that, from the handful of accounts I've read, it seems that females tend to get eggbound and are at an increased risk of pregnancy complications rather than just being infertile. (If this is incorrect, I'd love to be corrected.) I could see this as a potential animal welfare issue if desert females fall into the hands of those who don't realize their reproductive problems, or don't realize the extent, and breed the female, putting her life at risk.

The other issue does center around that of combo desert females. I saw some 5-gene female for sale for a few grand, and desert was one of those genes. It occurred to me that if you breed a multi-gene male to any female, and hit on a 6-gene female who happens to carry desert, the desert gene would effectively "ruin" that female for your breeding program. That could get really upsetting if she was an otherwise stellar animal with that much genetic potential!

So, I dunno. There are some gorgeous desert morphs out there, and I most likely would use a desert combo male in my breeding program ... But the female issue is pretty problematic IMO.

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Originally Posted by J.Vandegrift

I would expect males will soon be dropping quite a bit as well. When only 25% of the snakes the male produces are really worth anything I can't imagine people will continue to pay a high price for them. I know I personally wouldn't.

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I agree with John 100% males will soon be worth alot less, while the desert gene is not dead it will no longer be an investment animal in my IMHO. I'm definitely gonna get a male when they come down to a reasonable price though. Love the combos females will be pets til proven otherwise.

When did all of this talk come about? I just bought 20 females!:mad: JK...In all reality, I buy my animals to breed. I will be staying far away from the Desert project to be honest. Yes my animals are pets. On the other hand, it is not a smart investment on my part to buy another animal to feed that will not produce for me. Others will obviously have different feelings, to each his own. Not to mention, a lot of people are working with this gene and the animals (unless priced as normals) will end up sitting in their racks. Why should we be creating animals that will not be bought due to infertility issues and rendered useless by the ones who invest as a business aspect? After all, the business men are the ones who are going to spend the high dollar that is placed on these animals at this point. For those of you who say that these snakes are animals and should not be looked at like dollar signs...Forget you read my post. I do love my animals, they are not just dollar signs. This post was written for those of us who choose look at things in economical light.

I have yet to start my first breeding season, and I'm doing it for fun rather than money (due to the fact I didn't have much to start with, haha). When I first started looking into BPs I fell in love with the deserts on PE's pages, but now with everything that has come up the last year or so it makes it harder for me to justify getting another "pet" BP for so much money when there are plenty of morphs to invest in that are only going to have the normal BP issues at most (barring other complications of course). If/when the prices do go down I'd be happy to pick up a female as a display, but with the budget I have now I can't afford it for a hobby expense.

Theres a risk with any morph. The risk of market dropping etc. Now as we know so far the females cant reproduce. But what happens when someone figures out a combo that does work? If its such a dead morph in many peoples oppinions on here then why are breeders still working with them? Why are males still as high as they are? Why are females still as high as they are? Could mean a couple reasons. 1 it could be people working with them are trying to sell while they can, or 2 could mean people are close to figurin things out or already have. Either way when they do figure it out that morph will go through the roof and those working with them now will make a ton of money. I hear so often on this site how people arent in it for the money and just in it for pets. Thats great but having a hobby that pays for itself is alot better then a hobby with no return. For me i breed because i love the entire package. I love working with a number of different morphs, being able to put 2 things together and produce something totally different. But i could not afford to do it on the scale i am without making money off of it.

The speculation that someone has "figured it out" is all that really keeps this project afloat.

I do not see how, if someone has, that keeping it secret is helping them or anyone else. Unless keeping an air of mystery helps bolster up the price for the short term until the bottom truly falls out.

Just the way I see it.

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Originally Posted by jinx667

The speculation that someone has "figured it out" is all that really keeps this project afloat.

I do not see how, if someone has, that keeping it secret is helping them or anyone else. Unless keeping an air of mystery helps bolster up the price for the short term until the bottom truly falls out.

Just the way I see it.

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I agree. And i am only speculating. Im not saying someone has figured it out. I have a desert male hangin around just incase someone does lol

I think Desert females should be safe so long as their owners don't try to breed them. They should probably be sold with a certificate to that effect, or something. (I am one of those who thinks their infertility is a done deal at this point, and no amount of skewing temperatures or whatever is going to fix it).

The reason i think people will be revisiting the desert ghost is because the two morphs have a lot of similarities in appearance, so they may make combos that likewise are similar in appearance. The type of gene involved is less relevant to that. (Actually, using a recessive gene keeps the value higher).