I want to start breeding bp

He has his name behind him now, though. He started the bully movement. He was the FOUNDER. Of course, he's got gobs of money ... more than 20 years later now, after founding a new dog breed and club, after starting a magazine and a million other side projects to capitalize on what he's done. But what did he start with? Nothing. He took Amstaffs and bred them with APBTs and people called his dogs mutts. It took 20+ years to get things moving and what about the upkeep on all those dogs over the years? I can guarantee you when he first started he wasn't able to sell his dogs for as much as he can now.

And like I said, he was the founder of a new freaking dog breed. What about the thousands of regular joe schmoe breeders out there who are trying to get a step up? Shows cost money; you have to go to at LEAST 10+ shows in a year to get your dog out there, if you have a well-bred dog with a look the judges are going for. Double that number if you're just starting out with a name no one knows. Training costs money. Conditioning costs money. Dog food, vet bills, etcetcetc.

And ABKC breeders are lucky because they're able to capitalize on a fad. Everyone wants a bully-looking dog these days; they're what the public thinks of when they picture a "pit bull". I constantly get accused of lying that my dog isn't a pit bull, just because he's styled more after gamebred American Pit Bulls and is only 50lbs.

What about breeders of an established breed?? I honestly feel bad for them because they have more breeders to compete with, thus more shows, more training, more money to spend on their dogs to try and get their dogs above the competition.

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Originally Posted by k8nkane

He has his name behind him now, though. He started the bully movement. He was the FOUNDER. Of course, he's got gobs of money ... more than 20 years later now, after founding a new dog breed and club, after starting a magazine and a million other side projects to capitalize on what he's done. But what did he start with? Nothing. He took Amstaffs and bred them with APBTs and people called his dogs mutts. It took 20+ years to get things moving and what about the upkeep on all those dogs over the years? I can guarantee you when he first started he wasn't able to sell his dogs for as much as he can now.

And like I said, he was the founder of a new freaking dog breed. What about the thousands of regular joe schmoe breeders out there who are trying to get a step up? Shows cost money; you have to go to at LEAST 10+ shows in a year to get your dog out there, if you have a well-bred dog with a look the judges are going for. Double that number if you're just starting out with a name no one knows. Training costs money. Conditioning costs money. Dog food, vet bills, etcetcetc.

And ABKC breeders are lucky because they're able to capitalize on a fad. Everyone wants a bully-looking dog these days; they're what the public thinks of when they picture a "pit bull". I constantly get accused of lying that my dog isn't a pit bull, just because he's styled more after gamebred American Pit Bulls and is only 50lbs.

What about breeders of an established breed?? I honestly feel bad for them because they have more breeders to compete with, thus more shows, more training, more money to spend on their dogs to try and get their dogs above the competition.

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I was there at the beginning. When all he had was chaos. When he got knuckles i got knuckles sister rampage. I watched him build everything he has. Yes he started with nothing but his first pups from knuckles set the market at 1500.00 a pup. The only pit bulls or staffies that were selling for more were champion adba king pin fighting dogs.( which i dont condone at all). He marketed his name single handedly just like a ralph davis, pete kahl, brian sharp or any other big name snake breeder. I know of other dog breeders that have made truck loads of money doing it the right way with no short cuts. To say that this creates inferior products is false. Thats what i dont agree with you on from your previous post.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

If you know what you are doing there is plenty of money to be made and you do not need to take short cuts.
I love people saying there's no money in it, leaves more for us that know better :D

OP, please get a few snakes as pets before thinking about breeding, baby steps, learning to walk before you run so to speak.

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I have had snake all my life. i down size because i move out of mom got married and had kids. So now i want to start back up. I like the high end morph so i want to make so money to get there. im not going to quit my day job:)

Here is what I said:

The people who make gobs of money off breeding ANYthing are often the people that take shortcuts at some point in the process and therefore, turn out an inferior product.

I never said every breeder that makes money off what they've bred is turning out an inferior product. I never said that you COULDN'T make money off breeding, just that you aren't going to be making gobs of it. Breeding isn't, and shouldn't be, a business; it should be doing something you love, so that when you take that first hit or loss, or when you have several losses, it isn't the end of the world--it's a speed bump you'll get over because your passionate about what your breeding for. You aren't plugging A + B to get C.

There are so many variables that people don't think about or account for and it leads to the problem we have with the overpopulation and prevalence of backyard bred pit bulls, for example. Everybody and their brother getting into the business to MAKE MONEY and not to do it because they love what they're doing, and then they end up taking the shortcuts in terms of research on genetics, in terms of taking proper care of their animals because don't you know that costs money?

I just don't think it's fair or wise to make it out like a guarantee that you'll turn out to be a big name or even a little name breeder when the odds are stacked against you.

Also, to get my fangirling out of the way, I think it's so amazing that you were there from the beginning. :) I have a healthy respect for Dave Wilson and what he's managed to do with Bully's, even if they're not my style. The thought behind the genetic aspect alone ... Just awesome. :)

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Originally Posted by k8nkane

Breeding isn't, and shouldn't be, a business; it should be doing something you love, so that when you take that first hit or loss, or when you have several losses, it isn't the end of the world--it's a speed bump you'll get over because your passionate about what your breeding for. You aren't plugging A + B to get C.

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I think one of the best things in the world is to be doing something you love as a business. It is completely miserable to do something you hate for living. Also, as far as business goes, high quality will get you sales and poor quality/customer service will get you in deep trouble with this relatively small, tight knit community. There's no problem in being extraordinarily fortunate with doing what you are passionate about for living.

Is it a business if you love doing it, though?

I'm trying to say that you shouldn't breed anything just for the money. Ever. You should be doing it because you want to better whatever you're breeding. If it's a snake and you're focused on pastels, you shouldn't be breeding pastels just because they're a "cheaper" morph, so you'll likely sell more of them and earn your money back faster. You shouldn't be thinking of it as a "business", on just turning snakes out to get your money back. You should be going into it with the idea of bettering the color of a pastel, of making the best possible pastel you can put out on the market.

That's how you get all these amazing morphs. With breeders who love trying new things, who aren't avoiding mixing and matching genetics just because they're worried it might not turn out right and they could lose their money. They're doing it because they love it and the "business" part of it is a bonus.

I agree. Its not an easy venture to turn breeding into a buisness. I for one work with the animals i work with because of the love of the trade. I have made alot of money doing it and actually am in the process of changing things up a bit. Ive gotten burned out from working with and chasing crazy combos that im goin back to the animal i love the most. The bees. Im going to strictly work with bees and bee combos. They have always been oneof my favorite morphs. Oh an back to the dogs real quick i still have a pup from the first breeding i did with knuckles sister rampage. I had named him chaos after daves original chaos and hes 16 years old lol. Hes all grayed up in the face and just likes to lay around. Dont know how much longer he will be around but the joy that dog has given me over the years is crazy.

Wow, 16 years old. I can only hope Kane lives to be that long. I hope you have many more years with him, that he breaks the record for Oldest Living Dog. :)

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Originally Posted by k8nkane

Is it a business if you love doing it, though?

I'm trying to say that you shouldn't breed anything just for the money. Ever. You should be doing it because you want to better whatever you're breeding. If it's a snake and you're focused on pastels, you shouldn't be breeding pastels just because they're a "cheaper" morph, so you'll likely sell more of them and earn your money back faster. You shouldn't be thinking of it as a "business", on just turning snakes out to get your money back. You should be going into it with the idea of bettering the color of a pastel, of making the best possible pastel you can put out on the market.

That's how you get all these amazing morphs. With breeders who love trying new things, who aren't avoiding mixing and matching genetics just because they're worried it might not turn out right and they could lose their money. They're doing it because they love it and the "business" part of it is a bonus.

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I don't see why you can't have business producing high quality, eye grabbing morphs and also love it... in fact I believe there are more breeders than I can count that do. Many of them advertise on this site. It makes me sick to think of people mistreating animals for an extra buck (such as puppy mills) but it's a pretty absurd notion that a business can't produce high quality animals and cutting edge morphs AND still love working with snakes.

Yea hes my oldest and unfourtanetly i dont think hes got alot of time left. Sight is going, short bladder. But hes happy right now. Cant move very well but he loves his bed. I cant believe he used to swing from a tire for hours upon hours lol.