HSUS & Florida Politicians Undermine Efforts to Kill Constrictor Rule!

Snake lab, have you been paying *any* attention over the last 5 years? It started out as an attempt to ban all non-native wildlife and got reduced over time to 9 species, and now only 4. Yeah, we lost something, and we need to fight to get it back, but we lost a lot less than they were originally trying to take from us. I have to believe that the efforts of USARK lobbying and individuals making phone calls and writing their congresspeople and senators had an impact.

Obviously the fight isn't over for either side, but to claim that defeat is a foregone conclusion borders on the absurd. We can fight HSUS and win; we just have to get the general public to understand what HSUS (and PETA) are really all about.

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Originally Posted by olstyn

Snake lab, have you been paying *any* attention over the last 5 years? It started out as an attempt to ban all non-native wildlife and got reduced over time to 9 species, and now only 4. Yeah, we lost something, and we need to fight to get it back, but we lost a lot less than they were originally trying to take from us. I have to believe that the efforts of USARK lobbying and individuals making phone calls and writing their congresspeople and senators had an impact.

Obviously the fight isn't over for either side, but to claim that defeat is a foregone conclusion borders on the absurd. We can fight HSUS and win; we just have to get the general public to understand what HSUS (and PETA) are really all about.

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5 years? Have you been paying attention? They have been lobying since the 90s to ban animals. Peta and the hsus have the power because they have the money. You are not going to convince their supporters of anything. They are radical to their beliefs. The fact of the matter is the reson that burms, rocks and anacondas were banned is because there is not much money in them therefore it was pretty easy to ban them. The reason retics were not banned is because there is too much money and tax dollars that would be lost. The same goes for boas. Usark just doesnt and will not have enough money to fight a legal fight against hsus or peta. Usark is trying to come up with 150k to file federal lawsuits. Hsus can stroke that check right now without batting an eye. Heres the scenario, usark files the lawsuit, then hsus ties it up in court till they bankrupt usark. Thats what will happen. I am a big supporter of usark and what it stands for dont get me wrong but i am also a realist. The bottom line is money. Whether you like it or not thats what it is. This fight has been brewing for a long time and this is just a small win for hsus. The war isnt over and as long as people dont freak out and sell collections and as an industry we keep plugging away we will over come this. As long as the animals we work with are worth money and the industry stays strong we will be fine. The govt is not going to loose out on tax money.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

You are not going to convince their supporters of anything. They are radical to their beliefs.

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You'll get no argument from me on that point, but their direct supporters are not the people we need to convince. It's the middle ground rest of the populace who either have no pets or just "conventional" pets that we need to convince of our position. Any sane person who sees that none of HSUS's money goes to support local shelters and that PETA kills 97% of the animals they take in will realize very quickly that those two organizations are actively doing harm rather than good.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

5 years? Have you been paying attention? They have been lobying since the 90s to ban animals. Peta and the hsus have the power because they have the money. You are not going to convince their supporters of anything. They are radical to their beliefs. The fact of the matter is the reson that burms, rocks and anacondas were banned is because there is not much money in them therefore it was pretty easy to ban them. The reason retics were not banned is because there is too much money and tax dollars that would be lost. The same goes for boas. Usark just doesnt and will not have enough money to fight a legal fight against hsus or peta. Usark is trying to come up with 150k to file federal lawsuits. Hsus can stroke that check right now without batting an eye. Heres the scenario, usark files the lawsuit, then hsus ties it up in court till they bankrupt usark. Thats what will happen. I am a big supporter of usark and what it stands for dont get me wrong but i am also a realist. The bottom line is money. Whether you like it or not thats what it is. This fight has been brewing for a long time and this is just a small win for hsus. The war isnt over and as long as people dont freak out and sell collections and as an industry we keep plugging away we will over come this. As long as the animals we work with are worth money and the industry stays strong we will be fine. The govt is not going to loose out on tax money.

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Are you a lawyer? What experience do you have regarding federal lawsuits of this kind? How many have you been personally involved in?

You keep stating that we could never win a lawsuit, so please reveal your past experience and what makes you qualified to make such statements (since you keep saying it over and over and over again). What are your qualifications?

We need to fight this battle in two fronts.

The first front is the public. We need to tell all our friends, family, acquaintances, bosses, pet store shoppers and owners, pretty much everyone who will listen that HSUS and PETA are anti-animal ownership. Most people know that PETA supporters are radical, but most people I've talked to about HSUS were clueless. If the entire country were educated regarding the true intent of HSUS and the fact that they rarely help animals, then HSUS would have a whole lot less money. We also need to spread reptile ownership awareness. Tell everyone you meet how cool your reptiles are and how harmless and rewarding they are. Most people have irrational fears of snakes. The more you paint them in a positive light, the better chance of changing people's perceptions you have.

The second front has got to be this lawsuit. If a lawsuit is the only thing that has any hope of reversing this ban, then we need to go for it. It might be a longshot, but sometimes longshots pay off. Telling people it's hopeless and encouraging people NOT to donate to organizations who are fighting for our rights as reptile owners is irresponsible at best and potentially dangerous to our cause.

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Originally Posted by CapeFearConstrictors

Are you a lawyer? What experience do you have regarding federal lawsuits of this kind? How many have you been personally involved in?

You keep stating that we could never win a lawsuit, so please reveal your past experience and what makes you qualified to make such statements (since you keep saying it over and over and over again). What are your qualifications?

We need to fight this battle in two fronts.

The first front is the public. We need to tell all our friends, family, acquaintances, bosses, pet store shoppers and owners, pretty much everyone who will listen that HSUS and PETA are anti-animal ownership. Most people know that PETA supporters are radical, but most people I've talked to about HSUS were clueless. If the entire country were educated regarding the true intent of HSUS and the fact that they rarely help animals, then HSUS would have a whole lot less money. We also need to spread reptile ownership awareness. Tell everyone you meet how cool your reptiles are and how harmless and rewarding they are. Most people have irrational fears of snakes. The more you paint them in a positive light, the better chance of changing people's perceptions you have.

The second front has got to be this lawsuit. If a lawsuit is the only thing that has any hope of reversing this ban, then we need to go for it. It might be a longshot, but sometimes longshots pay off. Telling people it's hopeless and encouraging people NOT to donate to organizations who are fighting for our rights as reptile owners is irresponsible at best and potentially dangerous to our cause.

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12 years experience as a fraud investigator dealing with federal lawsuits with the insurance industry. Trust me i have seen plenty of federal lawsuits tied up in litigation over the stupidest of situations and its always the same. Either a settlement is reached over time or the side with the most money ties it up till the lawsuit is withdrawn. You can try strongarm tacticts in some instances but you have to have something the other side wants. In this case the hsus isnt going to budge on their stance i dont think. Look im not saying it couldnt happen but the odds are greatlly against it because of the money and support of those your going up against and a lawsuit in dc federal court against a federally based group is a hard nut to crack.

I do however believe the best chance to do something is by getting as much of the industry together to try and drum up all the support we can. For alot of us this is how we make money, a livelyhood, or supplemental income. Either way its all taxable so we need to come together and prove how much money the federal govt will loose on such bans. One thing many people need to understand is that we arent the onle country dealing with this and the reasons for the push on bans go back along way. And it all stems from mistakes and situations from unethical treatment of animals in private ownership, circuses, zoos, etc. We are basically being judged and we will always be judged. We have to prove that what we do and what we represent is possitive. It sucks but the many are being judged for the few that screw up. I hope we can overcome this and make strives to build the industry better then it ever was.

There is NO way to prevent accidents from happening. We can use education to minimize risks, but accidents will always happen--whether it's snakes, jet skis, bath tubs, or whatever. This isn't about rare accidents, it's about public perception, and we have a LOT of work to do.

Helping to minimize accidents through education is only one part of what we will have to do.

I agree totally. Only problem is we are dealing with an animal many have great fears of. But we do need to educate