Homozygous Spider Morph

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Your are thinking of recessive. a Pastel is a good example of a hetero Co-Dom, and the Super Pastel is the Homo version of the Co-Dom Pastel.

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No Im not. Im saying that the only way to get 100% visuals from a co dom trait is from a super form of that co dom/in dom. Im aware of pastels, I have several. Also a homo form of a recessive wouldnt yield any visuals unless bred to a het or another homo form of that trait, so not sure what you mean.

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Originally Posted by Domepiece

No Im not

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Ok my bad.

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Originally Posted by Gomojoe

Dominate just means that the trait is present with only 1 allele affected, and doesn't change the trait if both are affected. Huntington disease is an example where patients have predictable symptoms regardless if they are homo or het. Am I wrong?


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I dont know I'm not an expert on huntington disease or ball pythons for that matter. Im learning something everyday just like everybody else.(except those who already know it all). What I am saying is just a basic rule of thumb that I have heard, "dominants dont have homo forms only co dom/in dom/and recessive do". Just what I have always been told and have read many times here on this forum. I dont know and dont care really, I know what all my snakes are and the possibilities when I breed them together.

With all of the breedings that's been done spider X spider, Bee X spider, Bee X Bee, killerbee X spider, etc etc/ there would be a homozygous version if it existed.
Same with pinstripe...

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Ok my bad.

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Its cool, its just difficult to convey meaning and tone while writing. Ive been told I'm not easy to understand, maybe I need to work on being more selective of how I decide to write something and choose my words more wisely.

SO just curious, are there any Homo forms of dominant traits in ball pythons. I understand that they are labled a certain way to make things easier but from the ones we call dominant is there a dominant morph that makes a homo version?

Years ago BHB reported to have an apparent homozygous pinstripe that looked like a normal (heterozygous) pinstripe but produced a large number of only pinstripe offspring. Pinstripe is the only proven dominant ball python mutation I can think of right now. It seems to me very likely that spider is homozygous lethal and hence co-dominant. Problem is it's nearly impossible to prove a homozygous lethal scenario if the homozygous babies never hatch. Sure it could still turn out that there has just been too little interest in breeding spider X spider and trying to prove the offspring homozygous to find one but with each passing year with still no public proven homozygous spider it seems less likely.

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Originally Posted by Gomojoe

But as I understand it, a homo of a dominate trait would give you 100% chance of seeing the trait in the offspring but wouldn't be any different from a het.

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You are correct. Ideally, there is no visible difference between the homozygous snake and the heterozygous snake. The only difference is that all of the homozygous snake's offspring have the gene and show the trait. While only approximately half of the heterozygous snake's offspring have the gene and show the trait.

Really good dominant mutant genes are rare in reptiles. Pigeons show several dominant mutant genes. One of those dominant genes is called spread and produces a solid black pigeon. (A normal pigeon has slate gray wings with two black bars on each wing. The head and tail are darker than the wings.)

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

It seems to me very likely that spider is homozygous lethal and hence co-dominant. Problem is it's nearly impossible to prove a homozygous lethal scenario if the homozygous babies never hatch. Sure it could still turn out that there has just been too little interest in breeding spider X spider and trying to prove the offspring homozygous to find one but with each passing year with still no public proven homozygous spider it seems less likely.

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About the way to do prove the scenario is statistically. Produce spiders from spider x spider matings and mate them to normals. Any matings that produce normals have a heterozygous spider parent. If 20 such matings are made and all have a heterozygous spider parent, then the odds of this happening by chance are less than 0.001. This involves a lot of time and record keeping.

congo is proven dominant according to vin russo also