Warning to anyone dealing with (mohammad . Mutaionsonly)

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Sooner or later, your collection is going to be exposed to some thing awful because you have no quarentine. It's irrelevant until you lose every snake you own because you can't be bothered to quarentine new arrivals.

I don't think I'd want to deal to you with how you're blaming the seller for illness you can't prove came from him, for a lump on the nose that you CHOSE to keep, after he paid the vet bills for animals he doesn't know were sick at all.

And there's always those vague "people who had the SAME result as me!" who never emerge, only contact the OP. Whatever forums are saying you're right, go cheer to them about how terrible it is that the seller paid your vet bills after you had them two full weeks and chose to keep them in the first place.

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yeh thats all right ovcourse what was i thinking im the one totally in the wrong and im sorry for any destress i may have coursed by posting this thread on here ....

give me a break please ... how many times do i have to say the same thing only a diffrent way the qt is whats in question the here is it, the issues that are in question is this person taking the piss out of people like sending me a snake with a suspected tumour on its head ! the fact that i chose to take it is another irrelevent question ... i should have been told !!
the ri came on with me but was because the snakes were in poor health anyway was the reason for why it happened .. i wasnt in no way at fault
the blood from the cloaca a possible stomach issue IS IN NO WAY MY FAULT !!

ANIMALS THAT ARENT IN 100% HEALTH SHOULD NOT BE SOLD END OF!!!
and that is the cold hard facts of this story!

He should not send a snake with a "tumour". But then you decided to keep it, so what would you have the guy do? What is the "tumour"? Is it a nose rub or a tumour or a swelling or what?

Are you saying that a healthy snake cannot get an RI? Experianced people already said they've had healthy snakes have come down with an RI. Two weeks is enough time for an RI to begin. Snakes with RI are healthy before they get the RI unless you believe they hatched with an RI and have had it since hatching, they were healthy at some point and now have an RI. The issue is WHEN/WHY they got the RI.

How can you possibly say the blood from the cloaca isn't your fault when you don't know what is causing it?

Animals that are sick shouldn't be sold. You have yet to have any proof that the animals were sick when they were sold. You haven't actually proven you have snakes that are sick now, although I'll give you benefit of a doubt in that and assume that the snakes NOW have an RI.

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Originally Posted by smart1

yeh thats all right ovcourse what was i thinking im the one totally in the wrong and im sorry for any destress i may have coursed by posting this thread on here ....

give me a break please ... how many times do i have to say the same thing only a diffrent way the qt is whats in question the here is it, the issues that are in question is this person taking the piss out of people like sending me a snake with a suspected tumour on its head ! the fact that i chose to take it is another irrelevent question ... i should have been told !!
the ri came on with me but was because the snakes were in poor health anyway was the reason for why it happened .. i wasnt in no way at fault
the blood from the cloaca a possible stomach issue IS IN NO WAY MY FAULT !!

ANIMALS THAT ARENT IN 100% HEALTH SHOULD NOT BE SOLD END OF!!!
and that is the cold hard facts of this story!

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Your right people are focusing on the fact that you didn't quarantine your snakes and that could be in part because everyone here believes quarantine to be extremely important because it is and it was stupid on your part not to quarantine them.

You knowingly kept the snakes after you noticed problems when they arrived. You could have sent them back then and you wouldn't be in this mess. If you want more support than post vet reports and pictures, but still expect some backlash.

I agree that animals that are sick should not be sold but have you considered the fact that maybe he didn't know they were sick, I mean it did take you 2 weeks after receiving them to notice. The guy is paying your vet bills, which I honestly don't think he has to. If you want support start offering proof.

Also it wasn't the smartest idea in the world to agree to a trade/sale without seeing what you were getting.

Please post a picture of the "Huge Tumor"

You keep saying he sent you this snake with a tumor on its head...

First of all...you didnt see pictures of it before he sent it. Who's to say it wasnt there when he sent it?

To be straightforward...how do we know for certain that the lump was present when you first received it? It sounds like the first time you contacted the seller was when you noticed that there were RI problems when you were ready to take them to the vet! From what I read...thats 2 weeks AFTER you received them! Now it sounds like you're trying to say that you noticed it right away when you got it but with everything else you've said so far...how do we know that this is truthful?

Face it, you made a bad mistake. You didnt QT them. And now it sounds like youre finding other things to bolster your disapproval of this seller because you know that you're in the wrong to deflect the problems you are having on someone else.

At least...this is what it all sounds like to me...

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Originally Posted by smart1

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too cut a long story short im posting this so as others dont fall into the same trap i have ....
i traded some royals about 4 weeks ago with (mohammad)for one of my spied hachling all seemed ok on arrival apart from a pied that had a big lump on its nose which i wasnt told about , anyway i decided to take the animals (which has now turned out to a big mistake on my part)
i housed these snakes alongside 3 of mine which were 100% healthy and which im hopeing still are .
2 weeks into haveing the royals they started developing RI wich i started treating with f10 and visted the vets , when i first contacted mohammad about this he was straight away saying he would pay for the vet bills .. a day later it had gone from pay for the vet bills to pay for 2 vet bills (which he did ) then another came down with RI , today ive recived the results back from the vets and they have stated its not something that would have just happened to the snakes over the last few weeks also to compound the problem 2 of the said snakes have started bleeding from the cloaca with the vet has told me that this 2 is a problem that couldnt have happend over the course of just a few weeks.
ive spoken to mohammad about this and have offered to get proof from the vet but he didnt want to no , all i wanted was the snakes that i have got from him to be returned and to be reimburst for them,but he is adament it is not his fault even tho the vets has stated otherwise and ive offered to provide proof...

to top it all off the vet gave the snakes 50/50 of making it which isnt good to say the least when speaking again to mohammad
he said he would have no trouble to have took them back if they were all heathly,but then that statetment kinda defeted the point !
i no from alot of people that mohammad is a trader of royals in a big way and has a high turnover of snakes due to this i feel that anyone buying from this guy needs to be very very carefull as the snakes may seem heathly but just because an animal looks healthy doesnt mean it is BE WARNED!!

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Apparently the OP has also posted this same post at the Captive Bred Reptiles Forum...Appears to me that hes trying to do a little "CYA'ing". I'd let the people of that forum know that there appears to be more to this story than it seems, but the forum requires you to be a member for more than a day before you can post.

http://www.captivebredreptileforums....aionsonly.html

There's about 6 forums this thread is currenty running on,if you had taken the time to read my previous post you would have seen I said ( this is the only forum) I've got people telling me im in the wrong!

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Originally Posted by Rawbbeh

Apparently the OP has also posted this same post at the Captive Bred Reptiles Forum...Appears to me that hes trying to do a little "CYA'ing". I'd let the people of that forum know that there appears to be more to this story than it seems, but the forum requires you to be a member for more than a day before you can post.

http://www.captivebredreptileforums....aionsonly.html

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ok the fact of the matter is, 2 weeks is a long time for the RI to have come out. Shipping a snake and the stress associated with it, will weaken the snake's immune system, so if the snake was sick before shipping, I would expect the snake to show signs of distress after 3 or 4 days. Quarantine is not just to keep your old snakes healthy, but also to make sure the new snakes are kept at different conditions, they need to have higher temps for one, to help them cope with the stress of travel. Any new snake that I get will be housed at 90-95 degrees for at least a week to prevent any possible infection while they are susceptible.

2 weeks is plenty of time for the new snakes to have caught something from your snakes. Your snakes might not be showing signs of infection because they do not have a low immune system from shipping and relocation, but yes they might be the source of the infection. Also and very likely, the infection was caught during transport while the snakes were cooler.

Do you have the name of the virus? If you don't, you have no way of knowing it's incubation period, but most RI have an incubation period of less then 2 weeks, so I would presume the infection was caught after they arrived at your house.

THAT IS WHAT EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO TELL YOU. YOU HAVE NO PROOF THAT THESE SNAKES WERE SICK BEFORE THEY GOT TO YOUR PLACE, EVERYTHING YOU ARE DESCRIBING POINTS TO YOUR CARE, NOT THE SELLER.

I hope you understand now why we are all saying this guy is a good seller. Paying for vet bills for something that has a good chance of coming from your care was very nice of him.

For the lump on the head and the bleeding in the snakes, have you ever thought that the shipping company might be at fault? If you don't have a biopsy of the lump, and a confirmed cause for the bleeding, to me it sounds like your snakes had a very rough trip, and yes that would also make them even more susceptible to infections.

All of this is not to bash on you, just to make you realize that before you bash someone else, you might want to look at the facts more closely.

Still waiting for "Tumor" pics.

(Not that it will make a difference because you still CHOSE to keep it... but still want to see what you are talking about)

Anybody that sees a post in another forum about this should kindly refer everone to this thread.... It is only fair to the seller.

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Originally Posted by smart1

yeh thats all right ovcourse what was i thinking im the one totally in the wrong and im sorry for any destress i may have coursed by posting this thread on here ....

give me a break please ... how many times do i have to say the same thing only a diffrent way the qt is whats in question the here is it, the issues that are in question is this person taking the piss out of people like sending me a snake with a suspected tumour on its head ! the fact that i chose to take it is another irrelevent question ... i should have been told !!
the ri came on with me but was because the snakes were in poor health anyway was the reason for why it happened .. i wasnt in no way at fault
the blood from the cloaca a possible stomach issue IS IN NO WAY MY FAULT !!

ANIMALS THAT ARENT IN 100% HEALTH SHOULD NOT BE SOLD END OF!!!
and that is the cold hard facts of this story!

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First, none of the points are irrelevant.

Secondly - if the RI "came on" with you - and YOU weren't able to identify that they weren't 100% healthy when you first received them, then why do you think Mohammed would have recognized that they were sick when he shipped them as you are ascertaining?

If they were SO sick, and it took 2 weeks for symptoms to show before YOU recognized them, then why do you assert that Mohammed knowingly sent sick snakes to you, when they appeared healthy enough for you to dis-regard quarantine and put them in the same rack as your established collection?