Banana males taking a 20K price drop!!??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tcutting

I really think for anything that is a co-dom morph that has a start price that high is just insane. not sure why or how people ask for/pay that much. and normally it seems to be from the top breeders who trade with one another because they have the $$ to do it or they trade animals. more of a redistribution of funds of the ball python elite.

I am and always have been in the belief that our hobby and the color morphs we make will never have a true value until it is something in a crummy pet store, or at the very least an entry level morph. I say this because it is a constant cycle of reinvesting. Now there are small gains here and there, but for the most part it isnt a high profit industry for "the little guy" which is why i never understood these outrageous prices for a new morph. It keeps them out of reach for the people who you ultimately want to own them.

Also dont understand it because, IT IS A CO-DOM! i mean in 4-5 years it should be about 1-2k range at best. and they seem to mainly make males, which puts the rate of growth much much higher.

kind of a rant but just my thoughts.

---

What you don't understand is supply and demand. Demand is high, Supply is low, therefore higher price. You increase the price to lower the demand and your trying to hit the point where supply = demand.

Then you hit a point where the demand doesn't meet the current price, so then it drops. hence it going from 50k-30k. Look at computer parts, cars, or just about anything, same thing.

also the morph is producing more females than males

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

What you don't understand is supply and demand. Demand is high, Supply is low, therefore higher price. You increase the price to lower the demand and your trying to hit the point where supply = demand.

Then you hit a point where the demand doesn't meet the current price, so then it drops. hence it going from 50k-30k. Look at computer parts, cars, or just about anything, same thing.

also the morph is producing more females than males

---

no, i completely understand supply and demand. I just fail to see a demand from people with such a huge price tag, other than the elite top breeders. who are constantly shuffling high end stock between one another.

They dont start making lots of money until they produce higher numbers of the morph and it gets to the bottom tier of BP owners. i would bet that if most people on here had 50k they wouldnt invest it into a banana BP because this is not our business and livelihood. and if i am wrong and they would, perhaps I enjoy it as a smaller scale hobby.

ohh and i had heard rumors that it produces mainly males. I can easily be wrong with that.

I've seen females under the $20K mark for a long time so it's only natural that males would follow suit once enough have been produced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

Don't we all love some good rumors :rolleyes:

Seeing this first post I can't wait to see what the second will be about.........more rumors maybe. :D:gj:

---

I got five bucks that the second post is about the Sahara, or the Mojave or the Namib, or the Gobi or some other...............



.............desert.

Notice how this same exact post has also shown up as a first post on several other forums?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tcutting

They dont start making lots of money until they produce higher numbers of the morph and it gets to the bottom tier of BP owners. i would bet that if most people on here had 50k they wouldnt invest it into a banana BP because this is not our business and livelihood. and if i am wrong and they would, perhaps I enjoy it as a smaller scale hobby.
.

---

I'm not sure how you believe that marketing 500 snakes at $1000 each is somehow going to make a breeder more money than 10 snakes at $50K each?

To make that 500 snakes, a breeder has to have several females(fed and housed and heated year-round) and several males(fed and housed and heated year-round). Then he's got to advertise and market and network to find 500 people willing to buy his particular morph. In the meantime, he's got to house, feed and heat all 500 babies he's got for sale.

To compare...
500 snakes at $1K each = 50 females(10 perfect eggs each) and at LEAST 5 males(breeding 10 females each) and added time to house/market all 500 babies.

10 snakes at $50K = 1 female(10 perfect eggs) and 1 male and the time to house and market 10 much-more-rare babies.

I know which method I'd prefer to use to net myself $500K. Granted, he'd have a ton of females that would continue to breed... but once you've hit a certain saturation, all your customers are producing and you have to work even HARDER to market your babies among all the other people with them, and you're stuck with 55 snakes who's genetics will not suddenly change to be some new morph. It doesn't continue to go up. It starts slipping downhil rapidly, which is why many breeders immediately begin making combos now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I'm not sure how you believe that marketing 500 snakes at $1000 each is somehow going to make a breeder more money than 10 snakes at $50K each?

To make that 500 snakes, a breeder has to have several females(fed and housed and heated year-round) and several males(fed and housed and heated year-round). Then he's got to advertise and market and network to find 500 people willing to buy his particular morph. In the meantime, he's got to house, feed and heat all 500 babies he's got for sale.

To compare...
500 snakes at $1K each = 50 females(10 perfect eggs each) and at LEAST 5 males(breeding 10 females each) and added time to house/market all 500 babies.

10 snakes at $50K = 1 female(10 perfect eggs) and 1 male and the time to house and market 10 much-more-rare babies.

I know which method I'd prefer to use to net myself $500K. Granted, he'd have a ton of females that would continue to breed... but once you've hit a certain saturation, all your customers are producing and you have to work even HARDER to market your babies among all the other people with them, and you're stuck with 55 snakes who's genetics will not suddenly change to be some new morph. It doesn't continue to go up. It starts slipping downhil rapidly, which is why many breeders immediately begin making combos now.

---

Its not that it will make them more, they tend not to sell that many when they are at that price point.

a few things, anytime i have seen one of these super high priced morphs for sale, they are only selling 1 maybe 2. i havent seen them sell more then that in a shot(not that it doesnt happen but it is rare to see more then that) because a lot of the time they hold them back. now if you were able to make 10 of said morph from a single female and a single male then sure that can make you a ton of money fast but you have to be the first one to do it and 10 perfect eggs of which all are the new base morph isnt always gonna happen.

Also when they do sell them at that price most of the time its to other top breeders and there is trades/wheeling and dealing going on of animals for the value. since its normally the same 5-10 people shuffling around these top snakes at some point you need to inject other funds back into the market. Otherwise all you are doing is shuffling the same money around.

So for it to work, you need to be the first one to have them, you need to be the first one to make them, and depending on the morph your investment could set you back 70k+ per snake and you will have to sell 3 or more of the morph at the same price you bought them at. Thats tough to do. not impossible but tough. Its a big risk to buy a morph at that price point because when they drop in price its dramatic and harder to make up the original investment cost.

And i guess i was looking at it from an overall market perspective. You will need new cash coming into it at some point and we are that some point in most cases. Thats the only way for it to be a healthy sustainable market.

The only guy i have seen selling a morph at a high price in any large numbers to make that type of profit is nerd and coral glows. now he is making a load of cash on those and is really i think one of a very few doing it.

and just so that I am clear. i dont disagree with you at all. Its just that I havent seen that really happen much. and perhaps that is because I havent been as up on the markets for the last 5-6 years until recent.

But how exactly are you "seeing" how many are being sold? If you see one sold, then it's likely more have been sold you're never going to know about.

And I know you're not going to get 10 perfect eggs, that was for the numbers. No one is going to have 50 of one morph females to breed either, right? It was to show the same number in a perfect world to get the same amount.

And even if it's selling 2 at a super high price, vs 20 at a much lower price, it's still the same overall in the math. Less work, less maintanence and marketing.

Not all the super high prices will be only from the "super-breeders" passing animals back and forth. There's a lot of animals that surprisingly will be shipped overseas or some small hobby person who must have THAT animal and has the disposable income(or something to trade). And I do count trades same as cash as far as value. It doesn't matter if it's $10K in cash, other snakes, or a restored vintage car. It's still the value equivalent.

There's always another side in a discussion. Just proposing some of the others in this one.

I say who cares? Buying animals to make money is a gamble. Some gamble big others small. Unless your the one putting down the money what's the point of chatting up this "rumor?" Even then I'm not sure why things going down in value is a big deal? Buy a new car and drive it off the lot and it's worth less then "new" at the dealership. Lord knows many bought houses as an "investment" in the good life only to watch that fall apart. My point is when you put that money down it's up to you to know what its for and where its going. Don't like the risk, hype, hustle, color or pattern? Then take your money elsewhere simple as that. Otherwise you risk taking your lumps with the reward. That's just how it goes. But who knows if any of its true? And unless your throwing down those greenbacks yourself then it really doesn't mean a thing. So BPologist are you looking at buying in on one? Or hitting a hornet's nest to see what happens?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BPologist

So rumor has it Ozzy is offering his newly produced banana males for 30k a piece. I have been waiting for the first drop in the banana market to take place this year. I mean really, Brock is pumping out the males, plus Chun, John at albinos unlimited with multiple males and females including one male thats most likely a super and some kid in CA, I believe his name is Keo (?) , Micheal Powell and not to mention Brocks friends within his inner circle he off loaded males too early on, Brad Boa and others. On top of that NERD has a TON of females ( that produce males) and males that produce males!!! Not to mention everyone else who has them that we don’t know about. What about the male TSK produced? How many more males is that producing? Not to mention tri stripe bananas maybe even tri stripe banana males!! Now throw into this giant mix of males that most of these people dont like each other. Things can get ulgly pretty quick. Rumor has it there are so many males that these breeders don’t know what to do with them. I know a few have sold but theres not enough people with 50k to match the amount of males produced and most likely the same goes for females at 10k or so. Guess some one had to be the first to under cut the market. No wonder Ozzy is cutting the price down. Cant keep a market over inflated for ever, but how do you feel if your one of the guy who already paid 50k? They will most likely make their money back and then some( which is why you invest in the first place ) That is, unless Ozzy chops it another 40% or more next year.
:D:gj:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshm

I say who cares? Buying animals to make money is a gamble. Some gamble big others small. Unless your the one putting down the money what's the point of chatting up this "rumor?" Even then I'm not sure why things going down in value is a big deal? Buy a new car and drive it off the lot and it's worth less then "new" at the dealership. Lord knows many bought houses as an "investment" in the good life only to watch that fall apart. My point is when you put that money down it's up to you to know what its for and where its going. Don't like the risk, hype, hustle, color or pattern? Then take your money elsewhere simple as that. Otherwise you risk taking your lumps with the reward. That's just how it goes. But who knows if any of its true? And unless your throwing down those greenbacks yourself then it really doesn't mean a thing. So BPologist are you looking at buying in on one? Or hitting a hornet's nest to see what happens?

---

BEST post on the topic so far!

Anyone with $50k or $30k or $5k to "invest" in an animal better be fully aware of the risks and probable outcomes inherent in such a venture. And if you're not, then I have a really hard time feeling sorry for someone willing to blow that kind of money on chance. It's a high stakes gamble...and the house is still more likely to win than you are.

Quote:

---

...Or hitting a hornet's nest to see what happens?

---

Seems most likely to me. Unfortunately for "BPologist" though...other than some economic lessons, the general consensus on the topic seems to be, "Yeah, so???" :P 'Twas an empty hornet's nest.