Question

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

To the OP, so you truly believe that in the wild, ball pythons live in tanks, exposed to everyone who wants to look at them instead of hidden away in a termite mound, on crushed up bark instead of hard clay, being picked up and carried around by loud primates instead of left strictly alone... I don't know where you're getting your info.

Your picture shows your snake on carpet. How is that natural? Not one bit of how you keep your snake is natural, nor is it somehow more pleasing to the animal.

Newspaper is clean and smooth, like fairly smooth clay in a termite mound. The plastic bin holds in humidity, like the natural environment of termite mounds. The racks are dimly lit and very private, just like their hiding spots in the wild.

It's fine if you want to keep your animal in whatever artificial environment. But don't try to diss how others keep their pets. There's nothing more 'natural and right' about you keeping a snake in a tank and letting your kids carry it about than my snakes in their racks being handled as little as possible. You don't see me posting against letting kids grab up snakes and carry them around, or putting snakes on *gasp* artificial carpet. Our pets are in an artificial environment by being kept as pets. All we can do is try to make them as stress-free as possible and as healthy as possible. If you do it in a tank with repti-bark or I do it in a tub, as long as the animal has PROPER humidity, heat, fresh water and food... it doesn't particularly matter.

Keepers should always think of what the ANIMAL needs first, not what they THINK they would like if THEY were in a cage. You are human. He's a snake. He wants totally different things than you do.

I see people complain ALL the time that they've set up this gorgeous huge tank, complete with tons of hide spots and plants etc etc. Then they find the ball python only hides inside the deepest spot he can cram into. That's what HE wants. Not what the human keeper wants. They don't parade around on display because their instinct tells them not to.

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1st of all I was NOT being rude, I was asking a question. And NO my snake is not kept on carpet, the boys had him out and I took a picture. This animal has the best of both worlds, all is controlled to what the care sheet states. However, I do see your post as rudeness and that is what gives others bad impressions with some groups of people. I just wanted an answer so that I can learn.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I understand what you are thinking. Ok so lets get emotion out of the way and look at logic. Royal (Balls) are from Africa and live in scrub and savanna some into light forest depending on where in the range they are from. much of the savannah is hard packed clay dry and rock hard. paper is just a substitute to that, likely a close one. Wood chips are not a very natural substrate if we look at wild environments but generate a similar result to dry clay with tough grasses.

The other thing to keep in mind many of the animals have never been on natural clay and have no experience with it. The local terrain is not something instinct will dictate at all anyway it is something of a moot point.

One of the things we as diligent keepers do is to create a captive environment that simulates the natural habitat. The way you are looking at tubs is not looking though a snakes eyes. Tubs basically are a hide. There is no up so they are them selves a den a place of safety. Royals spend much of the time in the wild under things in burrows and generally in deep dark places what ever the opportunity presents. A tub is just that.

Many whom have tubs have racks little drawers where they live. Each little drawer has a spot where some light comes down and a warmer end and a cooler end. This is basically a burrow. Most breeders have no hides they don't need one the snake is in a hide a big plastic one. In the wild they will stay in a burrow until the residents are eaten and they have digested them and move on to the next or until the food and or water runs out. In tubs the snake has water and food there is no need to leave.

Tanks and naturalistic enclosures simulate terrane with multiple small, tiny hides. There is a different range of behaviour in them over tubs as the snake tends to display hunting and exploring responses but that does not mean that it is in humane to use tubs it is just different.

I have friends in Germany whom use bioactive systems and could and do (teasingly) say the same for the way I keep my snakes they have live plants large enclosures and bugs and such in them in a careful balance to generate a live environment. It requires a huge investment and a very deep understanding of everything that is there. life cycles of bugs to plants everything must be right. It is simply beyond most people in resources, time and education. The logic you are using says that this is the only humane way to keep royals but the thousands of dollars and years of experience is hard to come by.

There are very few hard and fasts in the hobby and the type of enclosure makes little difference to the health and well being of the snake. It is the keeper that is key not the enclosure. A diligent keeper will set up a system that provides the proper environment. Where that is does not matter Tub tank or otherwise. One is not better or worse just different each presents different problems and need different solutions. The ingenuity and care of the keeper make the difference the enclosure is just where the snake stays.

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Thank you, your answers are very helpful!!

Oh well MY post is rude... but you can basically imply that if someone uses newspaper it's not right, and that's not rude? I used the exact same attitude that you yourself used. Without going into some religious aspect of how "God" intended snakes to live.

If you take it as rude if someone disagrees with you in the same manner you posted, that's your issue, not mine.