Feeding in a seperate tank

Pm sent. As not to derail this thread.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

I can only see it happening if the only time you ever open the cage is to feed. But if that's the only time you ever open the cage, why even have a snake? As long as you handle your snake in a normal way and don't smell like a rat, odd of you getting bitten are low, especially with a BP.

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Like I said I only had to do it with the Burm I had because it had a very strong feed response. additionally the animal was a rescue and had never really gotten use to handling, so there was a need to "train." and as stated only for those animals who were a bit trouble some.

I believe that snakes learn to recognise smells and sounds and become accustomed to them. Snake behaviour is very simple there is directed and instinct.

The directed behaviour is exploring and investigating the type that you see having a snake out being handled.

feeding is instinctive behaviour, nobody home upstairs. Entering feeding mode requires set of triggers, smell, need, security, on and on. If they are not present the animal will simply not enter feeding mode. Some species enter feeding mode very fast some don't royals don't. I don't think it is necessary with royals to feed in a separate container. I also don't feel that unless you have some trigger present that a royal would enter feeding mode just by opening a door. I have some seriously aggressive feeders but have never had even so much as a strike position on anything other than feeding evening.

The scent of rat in the air and the vibrations of the hair dryer and opening seem to be enough trigger for mine. I often do water bowls while rats are thawing and have never been struck even then. I have been when I forgot the ziplock baggie that had last nights meal on top of an enclosure the next evening during a spot clean however. Scent, heat, movement, vibration these are clear triggers.

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Originally Posted by tcutting

I would strongly disagree. I can see where in most cases it isnt needed; however if you believe they get use to being handled, why couldnt they get use to a pattern and routine for eating? These are creatures of very basic patterns and routines, and that is something you can get them adjusted to in most cases if there is a need.

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And conversely - why couldn't they get used to the pattern and routine of being moved to a separate enclosure on feeding day and be just as likely to bite when you move them than as if you fed in their own enclosure?

I feed over 50 ball pythons a week in their enclosures. I've never been mistaken for food. Well, OK, once I was mistaken for food, and that's because I was stupid and wasn't thinking about the fact that I was trying to locate a dead rodent by opening up enclosures in the exact same order as I do on feeding day, which triggered a feed response.

There's no need to feed ball pythons in separate feeding enclosures, other than just allowing the owner to have a false sense of avoiding a strike. Setting up a routine of feeding in a separate enclosure is just as likely (if not more likely) to elicit a feeding response. More so, because moving to the separate enclosure is only done on feeding day, whereas, I'm going into tubs every single day, not just on feeding day, so they aren't conditioned to associate the opening of the tubs as only being for feeding.

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Originally Posted by Jaxx

Also feeding in a seperate tub cuts down on having to remove items from the original enclosure, and no worry about the snake ingesting substrate or anything like that when fed in an empty tub.

As an example, could you imagine feeding in this enclosure? It would be a pain.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...7/100_3121.jpg

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Absolutely I could, and have in the past when I used a tank for an enclosure. :D I didn't remove things though, and the snake ate just fine.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

And conversely - why couldn't they get used to the pattern and routine of being moved to a separate enclosure on feeding day and be just as likely to bite when you move them than as if you fed in their own enclosure?

I feed over 50 ball pythons a week in their enclosures. I've never been mistaken for food. Well, OK, once I was mistaken for food, and that's because I was stupid and wasn't thinking about the fact that I was trying to locate a dead rodent by opening up enclosures in the exact same order as I do on feeding day, which triggered a feed response.

There's no need to feed ball pythons in separate feeding enclosures, other than just allowing the owner to have a false sense of avoiding a strike. Setting up a routine of feeding in a separate enclosure is just as likely (if not more likely) to elicit a feeding response. More so, because moving to the separate enclosure is only done on feeding day, whereas, I'm going into tubs every single day, not just on feeding day, so they aren't conditioned to associate the opening of the tubs as only being for feeding.

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Exactly! Excellent points!:gj:

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

Personally, I have never seen a reason to feed is a separate area. The idea that a snake can associate opening their enclosure to food is a myth.

The only reason to do that separetely I can think of is if you house multiple snakes in one enclosure, but that is something only true experts should even attempt.

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Agree 100%...feeding in a seperate enclosure is just making things difficult for yourself...and stressful for the snake...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

And conversely - why couldn't they get used to the pattern and routine of being moved to a separate enclosure on feeding day and be just as likely to bite when you move them than as if you fed in their own enclosure?

I feed over 50 ball pythons a week in their enclosures. I've never been mistaken for food. Well, OK, once I was mistaken for food, and that's because I was stupid and wasn't thinking about the fact that I was trying to locate a dead rodent by opening up enclosures in the exact same order as I do on feeding day, which triggered a feed response.

There's no need to feed ball pythons in separate feeding enclosures, other than just allowing the owner to have a false sense of avoiding a strike. Setting up a routine of feeding in a separate enclosure is just as likely (if not more likely) to elicit a feeding response. More so, because moving to the separate enclosure is only done on feeding day, whereas, I'm going into tubs every single day, not just on feeding day, so they aren't conditioned to associate the opening of the tubs as only being for feeding.

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if you keep certain conditions for how you feed, as the one person did, that they dont handle the animal at all and allow it to move from one container to another then there isnt really an issue. Also if while in the separate feeding enclosure I wouldplace the snake in close the lid(thus making it 100% dark) then open, present feed item, and never close the lid again, they pattern becomes all dark lid closed, then WHEN it opens is the food coming in.

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Originally Posted by tcutting

I would strongly disagree. I can see where in most cases it isnt needed; however if you believe they get use to being handled, why couldnt they get use to a pattern and routine for eating? These are creatures of very basic patterns and routines, and that is something you can get them adjusted to in most cases if there is a need.

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and in my case it was most deffinately a help with the Burm I had.

additionally if you are going in and out of their enclosures more then just to feed them then yes the pattern is that most times it isnt food.

I really didn't realize that this was such a controversial subject:O, but i appreciate everyone's views! I'll see what works with Jackson, but I especially appreciate the advice I got on supporting the snakes body if I do have to pick him up for some reason after feeding- whether he's in a separate tub for feeding or not.

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Originally Posted by MasonC2K

Personally, I have never seen a reason to feed is a separate area. The idea that a snake can associate opening their enclosure to food is a myth.

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I also disagree. I handle all my snakes on a regular basis, but my boa still assumes that it is feeding time when it comes time to get him out. I typically just watch his behavior though, if I can easily grab his mid section and get a hold of him without his head being near by, I will and he'll be lifted before he has a chance to tag me. If his head is right up front I use a hook to get him out. Typically he realizes that it is not feeding time if he gets touched. Otherwise it's a whole different story. I personally don't care if he thinks that it's feeding time when I go to get him, I would rather him associate his cage with food than coming out with food. My other snakes don't give a crap where they eat, especially the corns. The ball won't eat if being watched, so he just gets his rat laid in the cage under the same hide he is in.