Taking BP out and about?

Hi,

I've added my comments in red within your post.

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Originally Posted by BigByrd47119

I shall continue to respectfully disagree with this perspective.

If the handler is responsible with their snake and fulfill all of the snakes requirements with recognition of what may or may not be encountered in the public atmosphere, what is the real harm to the snake owning community?

Ok exactly how likely is it that the snake in question will have the exact warm and cool end temps and humidity provided to the same degree as its home environment?

How many people going to a car show say to themselves " I might encounter a snake so I had better prepare myself"?


It is possible that some will not like seeing a snake in public, but as I said its highly unlikely that anyone will flip-out.

I admire your prescience but doubt its 100% accuracy.

I am an active supporter of the Second Amendment community and I think perhaps we have taken a more aggressive stance when defending our rights than this. I would not, for example, refuse to carry my Glock 23 simply because it may offend someone who may make a complaint to an editor, etc, etc. This is unreasonable!

The second amendment is obviouslty alien to my culture.

Would you, however, wave said Glock arround in public for no good reason?

Is there, perhaps, an amendment I missed about the right to bear snakes?

I'm sorry but that is a damned stupid argument from start to finish.

Walk into a crowd, wave your glock in the air, and see what happens.

If you are not doing anything wrong then DO NOT fear consequences. If the mere threat of impending legislation can cause you to stop that action which it intends to legislate, they have already won.

Or you could not be an inconsiderate ass about it. They make laws to deal with people who cannot behave in a civilised manner. Intentionally doing something you know could cause offense loses you any sympathy if said action goes badly wrong. Freedom has limits for a reason - and nine times out of ten it's because someone acted like an idiot

This is not intended to convince you to take a snake out and about, its intended for you to make the decision for the right and reasonable reason.

Definately the right way to approach this. Don't make it about something it plainly isn't - just ask if it is good for the snake and not going to negatively affect everyone else. I'm pretty open about the fact it will be, at best, not damaging for the snake and of no benefit to anyone. Sorry but that is my opinion.

I agree 100% that there is little to no reward for the snake. However the reward for those people you may encounter (I feel) could and should significantly outweigh any possible negative repercussions.

Sorry, but a well planned and organised handling experience is the way to do this. Not a well meaning individual just bringing a snake to a public space and assuming nothing will go wrong.

That all of use here would be thrilled to see a nice ball python in those circumstances cannot be extrapolated to say everyone else feels the same. i'm sorry ( again ) but this has bad idea written all over it in big red crayon.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I hope that you will receive my replies as healthy debate, and not as singling you out. That is truly not my intent (singling you out).

Besides taking snakes out to public events, I even MORE vehemently disagree with taking it into ANY retail environment that doesn't allow ANY animal (other than service animals) inside its establishment. We are not entitled to "break the rules" because we have an unusual pet.

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I truly love a healthy debate and do not perceive this as you singling me out at all!

I agree with your statement here as well. My previous post was just a general reference. As I stated in my second post in this discussion, a good handler will follow all applicable rules/laws pertaining to their situation.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I've added my comments in red within your post.

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Well, allow me to start off with the comment regarding the "waiving of said Glock in the air."

I probably wasn't as clear as I could have been (and I apologize) but I was referring to the carry of any firearm. More specifically I was referring to the open carry (OC) of a firearm (holstered on hip). This is in comparison to carrying a firearm concealed (follow the laws in your area). I could carry my Glock concealed all the time, but some times its more convenient to simply open carry. Assuming I am not breaking any law by doing so I have every right to do it, despite some peoples opinions.

The idea I was trying to relay was this. Why NOT take your snake with you if one or two people may be slightly offended? Your not taking the snake out and about for their enjoyment or education, although sometimes both of these do occur as a result of an encounter with a less than snake friendly individual.

I don't feel most well-rounded adults in society today would need to mentally or physically prepare themselves for an encounter with a properly handled snake.

I ask anyone here to point to at least a few examples of someone who was doing things right when taking their snake out and about, but still caused a person/people to "flip-out." Although I am sure its not impossible to find such an example, its not likely that you will find many.

Its ignorant to suggest that there will be no benefit to anyone, child, adult, senior, or other that confronts an owner with his snake (once again, we like responsible owners to represent us). I am a perfect example of why it is that its not a horrible idea. I would simply still possess a unfounded fear for snakes if it were not for someone doing that which many here seem so opposed to.

Restrictions on freedom are a necessity, despite how unfortunate that might be. It does not however stand to reason that a small percentage (say >1%) of owners should have the kind of influence to shape an entire classification of people. If one idiot takes his Eastern Diamondback out to the mall and starts throwing it at people, he obviously needs to be dealt with. Its not an issue that other snake owners should be faced with.

This is my final comment here although I shall continue to read this thread as it progresses.

I don't waive my gun around in public, in fact you'll rarely if ever know that I have it with me, that is my intent. I don't recall a amendment allowing the average citizen to "bear snakes," although I seem to remember something about the pursuit of happiness. Lastly I am not sure why you turned so defensive of this topic which was a very mature conversation between two adults. I am aware that I must have struck a nerve somehow and I want you to know that was never my intentions.

This message brought to you by:
A snake owning, gun "toting," American country boy born and bred right here in Ohio!

Hi,

I'm not sure I am really that defensive about it bearing in mind I am on a different continent and, as such, have a different set of laws and social mores to work with.

It honestly will never affect me one way or the other.

I just, honestly, cannot see any upsides to it.

I can see a lot of potential downsides. But not one upside. For either the snake or the hobby as a whole.

The media being what it is one person throwing a diamond back is represented as a much more common thing than it is and certainly gets more airtime than 100 responsible keepers and overly restrictive laws get passed as a result. I fully agree this is irrational and unfair. It still doesn't stop it being true.

For you a random encounter with a reptile bearing person was a positive experience. I'm just trying to point out that those for whom it will not be positive will be heard far louder and longer.

We are in a minority hobby that has problems being accepted by the average person. I just think prudence and consideration will avoid a lot more problems than any other approach.

I know it isn't a popular stance but, in cases like this, I feel flaunting your rights makes it more likely they will be taken away from you.


dr del

All I can say is a couple of years ago we had an awesome Exotic pet store open up on Dixie highway, specializing in reptiles of all kinds, and feeder rats, mice and rabbits. The young lady owner was very knowledgeable on all reptiles, and was very helpful and honest about the pros and cons of each animal.

However she had two very large Burmese Pythons in the store window in a large cage. They were amazing creatures. The problem was even having them on public display in a locked cage cause a stir and when the nearby city changed the No Pit Bull ordinance to allow Pit Bulls but require them and other "vicious" dog to be registered. It also prohibited many exotic animals, specifically constrictor snakes. Shortly after the new ordinance went into effect the Exotic Pet Store Closed.

It is a perfect example of how fear often leads to knee jerk reactions.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I'm not sure I am really that defensive about it bearing in mind I am on a different continent and, as such, have a different set of laws and social mores to work with.

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I am sorry to hear that. I truly thought you were just messing with me!

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The media being what it is one person throwing a diamond back is represented as a much more common thing than it is and certainly gets more airtime than 100 responsible keepers and overly restrictive laws get passed as a result. I fully agree this is irrational and unfair. It still doesn't stop it being true.

For you a random encounter with a reptile bearing person was a positive experience. I'm just trying to point out that those for whom it will not be positive will be heard far louder and longer.

We are in a minority hobby that has problems being accepted by the average person. I just think prudence and consideration will avoid a lot more problems than any other approach.

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I could not agree with you more on these points, and I thank you for making them. Its popular to say, "Bad news is good news, in the news industry." :mad:

Perhaps I should consider getting active in the exotic pets legislation area. I always loved expanding my borders!

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I know it isn't a popular stance but, in cases like this, I feel flaunting your rights makes it more likely they will be taken away from you.


dr del

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Lets just agree to disagree on this point :gj:.

By the way, where are you from out of curiosity?

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By the way, where are you from out of curiosity?

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You can see where Derek is from by looking directly under his user name (in his case - Scotland).

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Secondly, there's not ONE single benefit that your snake will get out of the experience. Not a single one.

The only benefit that I can see, if you even want to call it a benefit, is the owner feels a bit of coolness factor and enjoys a bit of the shock factor by walking around and parading their snake in public.

I would urge you to re-consider.

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I agree. We are talking about animals that will spend 95% - 99% of their time in their hides! Dragging them out into public to be gawked at (even to a rock concert based on one post regarding loud music) strikes me as cruel and quite simply taking advantage of their gentle and reclusive nature. I can see the value of the occasional educational and heavily controlled class room event but nothing beyond that.

These are sentient creatures, I am sure even though they do not outwardly show it they do get VERY frightened when dragged out into public, the fear of predators and such must be distressing.

The mental and physical well being of your animal should always take precedence over your own amusement.