First eggs of the season for me. :)

Awesome thanks tempest! I'll give maternal brooding a try this year.
Thanks!

Very cool stuff. Do you find that there is a temperature difference between eggs at the top of the clutch versus the eggs that are in more direct contact with the belly heat? Do you adjust belly temperatures at all for the brooding process, or just leave everything as is? Thanks for constantly updating us on your maternally incubated clutches!

Cheers,
-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matt K

Very cool stuff. Do you find that there is a temperature difference between eggs at the top of the clutch versus the eggs that are in more direct contact with the belly heat? Do you adjust belly temperatures at all for the brooding process, or just leave everything as is? Thanks for constantly updating us on your maternally incubated clutches!

Cheers,
-Matt

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To be honest, I haven't stuck a probe into the pile to see if there is a difference in temps according to egg position. From what I've seen with this and past clutches, when the female coils around the eggs, they're usually gripped by mom and held slightly above the floor so they're not always in direct contact with the substrate and belly heat. I wouldn't think there would be much difference because of that but now I'm curious and may have to find a spare thermometer probe and see.

This particular female is not as lax with my curiosities as my other girls have been or I would have gotten some candling pics up by now. lol I'm taking things slow with her so she isn't hissing and threatening to strike every time I open her tub. I will get some candling shots up in the near future and see about getting a probe in there to test temperatures at the top and bottom of the pile while the mom is brooding as well.

Oops. Meant to answer your other question as well. I haven't changed the thermostat settings on my rack at all. I leave everything as is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quiet Tempest

I've incubated jungle carpet eggs artificially but every ball python clutch I've had has been left with the mothers. I like the ease of maternal incubation and feel that the eggs have a better chance of survival with their mother rather than in an incubator. I have lost eggs in an incubator but have yet to lose any that remain with their mother. I'm hesitant to use incubators with pythons unless it's absolutely necessary. I read a study that concluded that artificially incubated eggs are more likely to suffer yolk dessication (solidified yolk is left in the egg at hatching) whereas maternally incubated eggs lose less water during the incubation period and tend to result in larger, more active neonates at hatching. The study definitely bolsters my opinion of maternal incubation.

http://www.rcreptiles.com/articles/w...their-eggs.pdf


It's entirely up to the keeper what method to use once you've got eggs, but for me this is the better choice. ;)

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They hardly provided perfect incubation conditions though did they :rolleyes:

"The clutches left without maternal attendance were placed in boxes (50 × 50 × 20 cm)
filled with wood shavings. The eggs were placed in the middle of each box, close to the
surface, and were covered by a thin layer of shavings. Similar artificial incubators are used at
TOGANIM. However, the room we used was large and well ventilated, while local farmers
incubate the eggs in small and closed rooms. Despite the fact that the boxes we used were
watered once a week to keep the uppermost shavings damp, the humidity (not measured)
may have fallen below 100% at times."

What is your target humidity for a tub with mama and eggs in it? What humidity levels do you maintain in oyher snakes' tubs? It seems from your posts thst you've practiced maternal incubation before. Have you had any problems with her harming the hatchlings once they've hatched? And do you remove any slugs you see?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by poundhound2

What is your target humidity for a tub with mama and eggs in it? What humidity levels do you maintain in oyher snakes' tubs? It seems from your posts thst you've practiced maternal incubation before. Have you had any problems with her harming the hatchlings once they've hatched? And do you remove any slugs you see?

---

I try to keep the humidity no less than 60% in any of my tubs. For brooding females, I like the humidity to be between 60 and 80%.

This is my third year breeding balls and I've maternally incubated every clutch - 1 clutch my first year, 3 clutches my second year, and I'm anticipating 5 clutches for this year. I've not had any slugs yet, but if I saw any in a pile I would remove them (if the mother didn't push them out, herself).

When the eggs start pipping, the female doesn't do anything to harm them that I've seen. She just uncoils and the babies wander off after leaving their eggs. Once all the babies have left the nest, she leaves as well. I have a few pictures of some of my females checking out new hatchlings.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/9868/cimg3742.jpg

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3419/cimg3763.jpg

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/8999/cimg5827.jpg

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5073/cimg5841.jpg


I have two other girls who are both going into a shed cycle simultaneously. I'm hoping this means I'll have two more clutches on the ground in the nearish future.

Thanks for answering my questions. Good luck with your babies :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishboyUK

They hardly provided perfect incubation conditions though did they :rolleyes:

"The clutches left without maternal attendance were placed in boxes (50 × 50 × 20 cm)
filled with wood shavings. The eggs were placed in the middle of each box, close to the
surface, and were covered by a thin layer of shavings. Similar artificial incubators are used at
TOGANIM. However, the room we used was large and well ventilated, while local farmers
incubate the eggs in small and closed rooms. Despite the fact that the boxes we used were
watered once a week to keep the uppermost shavings damp, the humidity (not measured)
may have fallen below 100% at times."

---

It's my understanding that the artificial incubation methods used were similar to others used there.

"The clutches left without maternal attendance were placed in boxes (50 × 50 × 20 cm)
filled with wood shavings. The eggs were placed in the middle of each box, close to the
surface, and were covered by a thin layer of shavings. Similar artificial incubators are used at
TOGANIM. However, the room we used was large and well ventilated, while local farmers
incubate the eggs in small and closed rooms. Despite the fact that the boxes we used were
watered once a week to keep the uppermost shavings damp, the humidity (not measured)
may have fallen below 100% at times. The high ambient temperatures in Lomé were buffered
in the incubators in a similar way as occurs in natural nests inside the burrows of tortoises
(see below). The clutches were inspected several times a week and any eggs affected by
mould were removed. Eggs that died during development were dissected, and we recorded
the body mass and body length of the embryo and the residual egg mass."

While these methods differ a bit from what many use in artificial incubators here and now, I would say this African method was fairly efficient for the artificially incubated clutches.

The use of substrates that are better suited for holding humidity (that don't have to be watered weekly) probably do increase the odds of success in clutches artificially incubated here. Even with a better substrate, I'd still wager that the benefits of maternal incubation continue to outweigh those of artificial but I'm biased. ;) I'd like to see a newer study carried out here in the US to compare maternally and artificially incubated clutches but I don't know of anyone who has enough gravid balls and willingness to do a proper study.

I got a few new pics of Freckles and her clutch. The uppermost egg has wrinkled a bit, most likely because it often isn't completely covered by her coils. She usually just rests her head on this egg so doesn't have the same benefits of its siblings beneath. I'm sure it will be fine regardless, but it's not as pretty as the rest. :rolleyes:

Day 19

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/699/img0363aq.jpg

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4909/img0357eo.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6387/img0355am.jpg

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/951/img0358kk.jpg

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/407/img0359lc.jpg



Freckles isn't hissing and threatening to strike every time I check in on her now which is the reason why I was finally able to get some new pics of her eggs. ;) The quality isn't great and I'm still figuring out how best to capture candling pics with this new camera. Hopefully I'll have it figured out before the next clutch drops.