new thermostat on reptile basic

Kitedemon-
Accuracy is important but I think many also get too hung up on it. In the end the thermostat wants to be as or more stable than the element being used and any more than that is really not getting us anywhere. The element being used is generally heat tape and while neat stuff it is not NASA ready if you know what I mean. Fortunately our animals like to regulate themselves if given the opportunity. In my seemingly endless hours of taking notes I found the moving to a higher resolution than the .25 worked well with less aggressive heaters in larger cages - i.e. things were very slow to change and the algorithm could respond smoothly. That set up was not really a good representation of real world. When I used it on racks like most of us are playing with it was actually less stable than the lower .25 resolution. It was in constant fluctuation- a bit of a fight with itself. I had actually thought about an "incubator" model with the very tight resolution as well as a real world version but after wresting with the response time of the algorithm and the resolution I got where it is now. So far I have not found a scenario that it does not do very well in.
Was not being sensitive on the price comparison, just did not understand it? The way I went at this was to design regardless of price then see where it could be beaten down to then see where it landed. If it was not competitive then I was going to abandon project. Like I said, no shortage of nice stats in the world so unless this was going to add something there was not much point. You would likely pass out if you knew how much money I had to tie up in this :(.

As for your multi probe tracking gadget. The short answer is yes. Already got all of that built in to the box. I won't get in to too much detail about it yet but I think it will meet the requirements you are putting forth. On that we can dial up the resolution quite a bit more as we are recording, not acting on the data. As for the accuracy- we are still subject to the 1% or so on the digital sensor itself. A component called a thermistor could be used and "calibrated" which would get us better than that but the problem then is that exact probe must be used in that exact port and that calibration can drift over time and need to be redone. Not really realistic for this market.

The sine wave issue is a tough one on triac devices. I have tested these on the two generators I have here. One a household 18KW and the other my 5kw Honda. Worked fine on both of them but unfortunately there can be a lot, and I mean alot, of variation from generator to generator. We selected a triac and driving components that would tolerate the most sloppiness and would deal with the most different types of loads (resistive elements, pumps, etc)- we did not go with a single triac driver device but rather built our own driver. This was one of the considerations. The "out of the box" driver would have been a little easier and about the same money but I have also seen complications with them. Tough to say on a case by case basis so try it out first before you need that generator. The power supply for the processor is very stable and will tolerate about anything so the brains of the operation should be ok- just that pesky triac.

I realize that 1º on a t-stat is fine. I have tested an un-named on/off t-stat that the probe was reading 3ºF high and then the shut off point was yet another 5º so when set for 92 it delivered an average of 95º but the spike was 100 and it hit that spike every 10 min of so. Accurate to 1 degree is fine, I feel it is very important to figure the 'swing' into things set to 91 the expected range of 90-92 is reasonable. Probe accuracy is paramount, and understanding that it is potentially off alters the way the T-Stat can be safely used.

I calibrate processors as part of my work, I have very good thermometers (thermocouple) I know exactly how crummy the cheap digital ones are. I have about 16 now and little notes on them about how far away from correct they are when the hit 4º I toss them. I understand that a resistive sensor is about the only way to go that is salable. I mean a $3000 4 probe thermometer is not going to be sell. My OCD can tolerate 1º +/- but the typical 2º makes me crazy. One of the ones I got (I will remember to check the specs before buying) is 2ºC +/- I have never used it at all.

I have been working on a battery back up system. There is a silly by-law about running gas motors outside for longer than 30 min a day. That means no generators and not wanting to rock the reptile boat in my area I adhere to that. The cost of an independent heating T-stat and pure seine wave inverter not to mention battery rack is prohibitive. A modified seine wave inverter as you well know drops the cost dramatically. I have looked at on off units as well but my first one I tested made me uneasy. I would expect the Honda to be fine, they I believe, use a pure seine wave inverter. The rest... I expect are modified and we know how much variation you can see there.

Thanks for your answers, that helps. I hope you find time to complete the specs soon and complete the web site as well. I was quite skeptical in my first initial glance of your product. Without hard information I am unwilling to trust the welfare of my animals (I care about them a great deal) to anything. T-stats to my mind a critical safety component and also quite likely the most prone to issues. Personally I think you have a great unit and I hope your thermometer system is ready soon. I currently am using a herpstat pro as a thermometer system but really would like a web reporting but as an Apple computer guy the software Dion has just won't work well.

Thank You,
Alex

Alex-
Just got an idea reading about your battery backup system- What if I where to try plugging a unit with a load into a cheap car inverter? That would be about as big a mess as I expect you would see anywhere??

Rich,

Products look great. I may have to consider switching over my stats at some point if these are as good as they look.

One question, any models in the works to rival the Herpstat II or the Herpstat Pro? The 2-in-1 and 4-in-1 models to have a lot of appeal (particularly in value), granted you have to accept the single point of failure as well.

That being said, the 400 watt rating on each channel of the Herpstat Pro (which has proven to be somewhat of a cumbersome limitation) is more than surpassed by the 700 of the VEs.

The design, presentation, and everything of these VEs look great, and based on our experiences with you with everything else I have no doubt that you have put in extraordinary testing into these new units before bringing them to market.

Oh, one other note of a trivial nature...the blue and white LCDs that Spyder Robotics happened upon really are a nice upgrade, any consideration there for VEs?

Great stuff Rich, keep it up. I'm sure these will be among our countless other orders in the future.

There is a 2-1 in the works already. It will likely end up being about 450 maybe 500 watts per side. The heat and current limitations are the issue there. I think I have a work around for that I will be playing with in the coming few months but not yet sure of monetary feasibility as of yet.

At this time I do not have a 4-1 planned. The single point of failure issue weighs heavy. Not saying it is a bad thing but to me it has exceeded the point of diminishing return.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Twisted Reptiles

Oh, one other note of a trivial nature...the blue and white LCDs that Spyder Robotics happened upon really are a nice upgrade, any consideration there for VEs?

---

I was thinking the same thing. I'd love to have the option of a different colored LCD.

It already looks like a great thermostat, having different colored LCD's would just be icing on the cake:)

Have not really thought about it actually. Maybe. Might wind up bumping the price up a couple of bucks. Once I get through the current batch of lcd's I will certainly look into it.

I recently purchased the VE-300 from rich about 2 weeks ago along with a couple of the CB70 racks and I have nothing bad to say about it at all, even though this is the first real thermostat I have used it was real easy to setup and works flawless and looks real nice sitting on top of the rack instead of hanging off the side or onhe wall. I have the probe directly on the heat tape like rich suggested and the difference between the top slot and the bottom slot is only 1 to 2 degrees I am very happy with this thermostat and will be buying more in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reptilebasics

Have not really thought about it actually. Maybe. Might wind up bumping the price up a couple of bucks. Once I get through the current batch of lcd's I will certainly look into it.

---

I personally would have no problem with paying a little extra to be able to choose the color of the LCD. I'm a fan of the cool blue LCD's with white letter/numbers.

My add just kicked in!! The one and only thing I HATE about the unit is the """RED""" flashing light.
Being and auto mechanic, RED=Bad and I have to keep reminding myself that on this one red is ok:rolleyes: