What Morphs am I dealing with?

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Originally Posted by sokonmatsumura

Cliche maybe but I am new to the world of ball pythons. An I have seen the crazy plethora of colors and variations that they come in. Or more accurately what came about from selective breeding. Its not unlike pitbulls. I have a papered blue fawn blue nose pitbull who is gorgeous. Blue nose pits are like different ball python morphs they were selectively bred for aesthetic purposes.

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Originally Posted by sokonmatsumura

How do they come out with all these Morphs? I mean people would have had to breed them for a long time selecting desirable traits to get ones of so many different colors and patterns.

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Almost all base morphs (original single gene morphs) came from one or more wild caught animals that were put into captivity. Those morphs can then be selectively bred.

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

ya just to prevent cage aggression. dont worry people just get semi irratated answering the same questions no worries though. that baby normal is beauty though congrats.

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I think that cage aggression (with ball pythons at least) is a complete myth. The number one reason NOT to move a ball python to another enclosure for feeding is stress. BPs can be very finky eaters and moving them around near feeding time can exacerbate that.

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Originally Posted by sokonmatsumura

Ok what is exactly a het?

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Het refers to heterozygous, or only carrying one copy of a recessive gene. Het animals LOOK normal, but have the genetic potential to create interesting morphs.

wow i cant believe this thread turned into correcting me and my opinnion regarding cage aggression. HAHA ok well in my experience with larger snakes burms etc. u dont feed in there tank simply because your hand becomes a target im sorry that it really chapped your behinds that i said that. I believe that it def. has somthing to do with striking at hands when cahes are opened. also i dont enjoy having a snake eye my hand and lunge out of the tub when i open it simply because he or she assumes its feeding time. this is a joke the guy is asking legit questions and all u can talk about is cage aggression get over it, ur opinion really does not bare more weight than mine :O hahahaha. :please: thanks just help the poster, and i still believe feeding in tub will result in cage "mis fires" if thats better lol. also for your info i feed my snakes in tubs when time is an issue but doing this regularly could easily train your snake.

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

wow i cant believe this thread turned into correcting me and my opinnion regarding cage aggression. HAHA ok well in my experience with larger snakes burms etc. u dont feed in there tank simply because your hand becomes a target im sorry that it really chapped your behinds that i said that. I believe that it def. has somthing to do with striking at hands when cahes are opened. also i dont enjoy having a snake eye my hand and lunge out of the tub when i open it simply because he or she assumes its feeding time. this is a joke the guy is asking legit questions and all u can talk about is cage aggression get over it, ur opinion really does not bare more weight than mine :O hahahaha. :please: thanks just help the poster, and i still believe feeding in tub will result in cage "mis fires" if thats better lol. also for your info i feed my snakes in tubs when time is an issue but doing this regularly could easily train your snake.

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He was just giving the info that in his opinion cage aggression is a myth. You gave your opinion too. I do not think anybody was upset. OP for the record it is your choice to feed in cage, or out. Be aware you can sometimes stress your snake by moving to another area to feed. Then again, no matter the issue there will be different opinions. Just like a rear end, we all have our own opinion. You can ask as many questions as you like and there will be lots of advice, just take them with a grain of salt!

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

wow i cant believe this thread turned into correcting me and my opinnion regarding cage aggression. HAHA ok well in my experience with larger snakes burms etc. u dont feed in there tank simply because your hand becomes a target im sorry that it really chapped your behinds that i said that. I believe that it def. has somthing to do with striking at hands when cahes are opened. also i dont enjoy having a snake eye my hand and lunge out of the tub when i open it simply because he or she assumes its feeding time. this is a joke the guy is asking legit questions and all u can talk about is cage aggression get over it, ur opinion really does not bare more weight than mine :O hahahaha. :please: thanks just help the poster, and i still believe feeding in tub will result in cage "mis fires" if thats better lol. also for your info i feed my snakes in tubs when time is an issue but doing this regularly could easily train your snake.

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If you're referring to my post in this post ( I can't really tell who you are directly referencing), I referred specifically to ball pythons. I don't have experience working with giants so I can't give anyone any reliable advice. Although, I believe this is what hook training is for.

Personally, I'd take hook training a 14+ foot animal over trying to wrestle it back into its cage in feeding mode. That just seems a lot more dangerous to me..

Most people here just want actual evidence that feeding in the cage contributes to "cage aggression"

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled post.

Normals.

Normals can vary greatly in color and pattern. I threw these four girls together in the tub for this very reason. Every one of them is a different color. There is a girl in the top right, bottom left, and two in the middle, the really bright/yellowish one, and the really really brown one.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...Isis/038-3.jpg

And if you want any advice they need smaller hides. You can leave the log things in there to fill up space, but the best hides are ones that they have to ball up and squish themselves a bit. Snug hides will promote good feedings, especially in a tank setting. And if it were me I would separate them for several reasons.

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Originally Posted by sokonmatsumura

Ok what is exactly a het?

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if you will take the time to read this forum, it will answer about 95% of every question your asking .. also i would learn all i could and get comfortable with the 2 snakes you have before looking into buying more !!! it will make you a better owner

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

wow i cant believe this thread turned into correcting me and my opinnion regarding cage aggression. HAHA ok well in my experience with larger snakes burms etc. u dont feed in there tank simply because your hand becomes a target im sorry that it really chapped your behinds that i said that. I believe that it def. has somthing to do with striking at hands when cahes are opened. also i dont enjoy having a snake eye my hand and lunge out of the tub when i open it simply because he or she assumes its feeding time. this is a joke the guy is asking legit questions and all u can talk about is cage aggression get over it, ur opinion really does not bare more weight than mine :O hahahaha. :please: thanks just help the poster, and i still believe feeding in tub will result in cage "mis fires" if thats better lol. also for your info i feed my snakes in tubs when time is an issue but doing this regularly could easily train your snake.

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The notion that two people with differing opinion should have equal weight given to their opinion is ludicrous. If you think the sun rising and setting is our perception of the rotation of our planet earth and I think that that Ra is driving his chariot of fire across the sky, we aren't both equally likely to be correct. What is your evidence to support your claims. You are saying that a snake that strikes at your hand is doing so because he thinks your hand is food and that by feeding the snake in another enclosure you can eliminate this behavior. Have you done any studies to prove this. I have seen no evidence to support the theory. It seams to be me that some people came up with a theory that seams reasonable and ran with it with out evidence. The snake could be striking at your hand for a number of reasons. For instance lets assume that you have two people who more or less never handle their snake. The person who feeds their snake in a separate enclosure handles their snake more than someone who does not handle theirs except to clean. That could make someone think that the trick is to feed in a separate enclosure where the trick might be to just handle more often. Now you might say, whats the harm if it works. Well the harm is that some snakes are very susceptible to fasting due to stress. Moving your snake to a feeding tub and back might be fine for some snakes and completely stress out others. My snake gets fed in her cage and has never struck at me. If you are going to put forth a theory and claim it to be fact you have to have evidence that backs up that theory. Having a snake that is fed in its cage and strikes or having a cage that is fed in a feeding tub and does not strike is not evidence for that theory alone. You would need a larger sample set, with a control. That experiment would then be given more weight each time it was shown to be repeatable. Until then the person with no theory at all is more correct as its a default state.

:rolleyes: :cool:

Cage aggression as a problem varies a huge amount between species.

Feeding response driven "aggression" varies even more.

Also, in the case of the giant constrictors, safe beats sorry by a country mile.

In ball pythons it generally isn't a problem. I have fed in seperate enclosures and fed in their enclosures and have found the conditioning to routine to be the main factor in SFE's (Stupid Feeding Errors ).

If your snakes expect food after a set of conditions have been met then any hands introduced after meeting them are asking for it.

I do find my BP's feed better housed seperately and fed in their enclosures.

But then I also know that if I have been prescenting and heating food up with the hairdrier I need to be paying attention when I open their tubs.

If I fed outside of the tub I would then have to pick them up and transfer them ( and transfer them back at the end of it ) that is, whichever way you slice it, twice the chance to get mistaken for food.

But if I haven't been defrosting snake food I can happily open any tub in the place and stick my nose in and expect nothing but mild curiosity and a tounge flick up my nostril. :D

If you have two snakes in the same enclosure however feeding in a seperate enclosure (for at least one of them ) is your only sensible option.


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

:rolleyes: :cool:

Cage aggression as a problem varies a huge amount between species.

Feeding response driven "aggression" varies even more.

Also, in the case of the giant constrictors, safe beats sorry by a country mile.

In ball pythons it generally isn't a problem. I have fed in seperate enclosures and fed in their enclosures and have found the conditioning to routine to be the main factor in SFE's (Stupid Feeding Errors ).

If your snakes expect food after a set of conditions have been met then any hands introduced after meeting them are asking for it.

I do find my BP's feed better housed seperately and fed in their enclosures.

But then I also know that if I have been prescenting and heating food up with the hairdrier I need to be paying attention when I open their tubs.

If I fed outside of the tub I would then have to pick them up and transfer them ( and transfer them back at the end of it ) that is, whichever way you slice it, twice the chance to get mistaken for food.

But if I haven't been defrosting snake food I can happily open any tub in the place and stick my nose in and expect nothing but mild curiosity and a tounge flick up my nostril. :D

If you have two snakes in the same enclosure however feeding in a seperate enclosure (for at least one of them ) is your only sensible option.


dr del

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very well put !!!!!

very well put DR DEL.

egapal, lol what a joke. I only say that in reference to condition responses thats all and thats where this " myth " came from. I dont have time nor care to argue with you i was simply stating my opinion which should bare the same weight as others. LOL and your sun example, worthless! the man in the original post stated the pet store told him to not feed in the same home tank, this is a common suggestion especially with people that might not understand snakes behaviors. why people feel the need to challenge my explanation of the advice? i dont know. and then ask for evidence? I dont do it because in my mind, ( this is where my opinion comes in LOL) animals in general are smart enough to pick up and respond to conditioned responses and I dont feel comfortable with my animal when they dont understand its time to be held rather than fed. regardless hook training is great, u have such a wealth of knowledge IM so impressed. lol this is some cyber bullying if i have ever seen it LOL i feel like the outlaw in a western trying to get driven out of town :colbert: i like the people that actually know what they are talking about a lil to much :rolleyes: