Ball python that thinks its a tree snake! :)

Ball pythons are not graceful, they will fall down if they climb on stuff sooner or later and they might get injured.

Sorry for the delay in responding I had help with a huge emergency re-location of more than a 100 ball pythons.

Ok so get back to the climbing issues I have yet to find a reputable reference that says a ball python will not climb if given the chance. I believe that tubs are fine homes and so are enclosures. It comes to a logistical issue of space. A naturalistic enclosure will allow the snake a wider range of 'normal' behaviour. Philippe de Vosjoli has written extensively on this subject.


" A ball python will usually begin spending more time in water just days before shedding. After about five days of swimming and then sunbathing, the ball python will be ready to shed. It will spend hours rubbing against a rock or tree to loosen its skin before sliding completely out." - David Barker

"In the wild, ball pythons are mostly active at night. They spend most of the daylight hours hiding in holes or other shelters." B Cornett Ultimate Guide to Ball Pythons

"...Under these conditions, my ball pythons are healthy, ACTIVE and eating regularly." B Cornett Ultimate Guide to Ball Pythons

"Starting in the early evening, even if the lights are still on, ball pythons will emerge from their shelters. If hungry they will hunt and may even climb on branches close to the ground." Philippe de Vosjoli 'The Art of Keeping Snakes'

"Despite being heavy bodied, Ball Pythons can climb adeptly. We there-fore provide a minimum cage height of two feet and elevated perches." Bartlett and Bartlett 'Snakes'

A snake that is inactive is either sick, or is just not getting any stimulus to kick in normal instinct. There is no logical process that can assume that in the wild a ball python will enter a hole and never leave its whole life. They must hunt and breed and will have to move around to do so.

My second biggest climbs a lot and all the smaller ones do. The others some do some don't it isn't a sign of things are wrong as long as it isn't all the time and during the day. Mine are out and about 3 or 4 nights a week just after feeding they 98% of the time will hide. If I am changing water or cleaning most will peek out to see what is up.

Glad to help, I hope that this doesn't spark some long much hashed over debate.
Alex

bman123,
I agree they are not the most graceful climbers, have you ever spent time watching yours climb?

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Originally Posted by ms381

The picture of the stressed snake is really interesting to me. This is my first snake and although i researched ball pythons for a year, nothing compares to owning one.

So going back to the picture, when i saw mine at the top of my tank (mentioned in the first comment) this was his posistion?

I will just clear up some things and then hope you can advise on whats best.

My tank is large BUT have made it smaller, hence the use of the exo terra fake wall which he climbs up to. Its 60 cm w and about 30 cm wide, maybe a bit to large but i have covered alot of his vision so he wont feel to stressed (hopefully).

I have two hides, 1 cool 1 warm and a small log thing that acts as a hide in the middle, i aslo have fake plants that i assume his using also to get to the top of the wall.

One question: do you think i should remove the wall and plants so theres no chance to get up there?

One comment: Im offering alot of hidding space for him so the options are there to hide if his stressed or feels threatend, so i assumed him going up there and being active was a good sign. However seeing your picture, thats how he was when at the top?

Edit: He only goes to the top of the cage at night (apart from the first introduction to the cage), last two days his been tucked up his warm hide during the day and most of the night.

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Yeah, hiding during the day is what they do. They come out at night... usually when everybody is already asleep. I just know they do because I've spent many sleepless nights just sitting in the office where the tanks are just waiting for them to come out. The first few weeks we had them, they're cruising all over the place, climbing up the glass wall. Have you ever seen them climb up the glass wall and only 1/4 of their body is left on the ground? Then after a minute or two you hear the big "FLOP" when they can't hold themselves up anymore? Yeah, mine do that when you move them to a new tank. It freaks them out. It takes them a while to settle back in.

They try to climb up after cruising the entire perimeter of the tank looking for a weak spot. When they get on that tree, they can stretch their necks out and feel the screen up top and I guess they instinctively realize it is the weakest spot. So, they go up there over and over as much as they can to find a way out. I've seen my first 2 snakes do this the first week. That pastel snake I showed you a picture of actually successfully popped the screen top of that exo-terra tank. That's one of the reasons I moved the snake to a Zilla one with the slide-out screen top. They can't pop that one up.

My snakes still explore their tanks, but I haven't seen any of them climb anymore. I rarely see them roam - they do their exploring at night. But, I know they haven't climbed the tree because the leaves are still on it. When they climb the tree all the leaves gets pushed out of the way and I have to re-arrange them in the morning.

The strike-mode is an instinctive defense pose. If my snakes are not stressed, they would pull their head under their coils when they're startled. If they're stressed (shedding, new move, etc.), they go immediately on strike mode. When they're climbing on a tree - or even when they're just getting used to being handled, they are not as secure as if they're on the ground. So, their instinct is to go on that strike pose.

Each of my snakes are different from each other. My 3rd snake, I already had lots of experience when I got her. So, when she went into her tank for the first time, I knew to put her on a 10 gallon all decked out with hardly any "air space". She still had a tree that hovered above the water bowl to provide a little security when she's drinking. I never saw her climb that tree. I didn't see her climb the walls of the tank either. But, she would slither in and out of tree trunk on the ground, slither around the water bowl and the 2 hides to check them out on her first week - day and night. It could very well be that she's just not the climber type. But, the previous owner told me she's a nervous snake and hasn't eaten in over 3 months before I got her (I got her for cheap because of that - she's an albino). I fed her a week after I got her and she ate within seconds and has been eating consistently since. So, I don't know. I like to believe that the tank set-up gave her a secure environment that she easily adjusted to.

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l.../sunshine2.jpg

My kids handle the snakes almost daily (too much, if you ask me) when they get home from school. So, that's around 3PM or so. The snakes just got used to it now, I guess because that's when they do a lot of their tongue-flicking, periscoping, curiousity thing. Either that, or they just stay in a ball the whole time sleeping or what-not.

Yes, in the wild, they explore... but that's mainly to find food and water. Since we're handing them their food and their water in our own little set-ups, there's really not much incentive for them to explore about.

My balls come out and "explore" on a regular basis, I know they're not stressed as they eat and shed on a regular basis without any issues whatsoever. They also do climb when given the chance, although since they aren't the most graceful of creatures their branches are never more than 4- 6" off the ground.

I took him out yesterday but he was very scared, didnt move at all in my hands and was in defensive position the whole time so i just put him straight back. He then went straight for the top of the tank, and as you said was looking for a way out, he then tucked himself between the fake leafs and wall for about an hour before going back into his hide.

I think i have made a mistake however. i gave him a settling in period of 5 days before i got him out, his now been out 3 times. The second was to try to get him to feed, but he didnt. I have now since read that i shouldnt of handled him at all untill he has had his first meal.

Im now going to leave him completly for two days and then offer food. After that i will hope that he stops climbing so much and will settle down.

Its my first snake so all lessons learnt. Just done wont him him to be stressed:(

Climbing isn't a sure sign of stressed but somewhere I missed that it was two days with you. It sounds like stress check all the temps and let him alone try to forget about him (kinda anyway) check the temps (this is where probe style ones are good) make sure you know the interior temps both hot and cold I personally being a bit (ok a lot OCD) need to check the ambient temps too (a probe about halfway up the side and between the hot and cold sides. Top up the water and leave it a lone for 7 days or a bit more then pre sent the enclosure (thawed rat by the vents) and then try to tempt him.

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Originally Posted by ms381

I took him out yesterday but he was very scared, didnt move at all in my hands and was in defensive position the whole time so i just put him straight back. He then went straight for the top of the tank, and as you said was looking for a way out, he then tucked himself between the fake leafs and wall for about an hour before going back into his hide.

I think i have made a mistake however. i gave him a settling in period of 5 days before i got him out, his now been out 3 times. The second was to try to get him to feed, but he didnt. I have now since read that i shouldnt of handled him at all untill he has had his first meal.

Im now going to leave him completly for two days and then offer food. After that i will hope that he stops climbing so much and will settle down.

Its my first snake so all lessons learnt. Just done wont him him to be stressed:(

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I'm still on my first snake. I completely ignored/didn't know about the settling period, so I was holding mine the first day. Mine definitely isn't stressed, eats regularly, and has never struck at me, so I wouldn't worry about whether you did long term damage to your snake by holding it too soon.

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Originally Posted by mumps

This is where I question the almost universal thinking that "balls are perfectly fine in tubs" attitude. Mine ALL like to climb and explore, particularly at night, and I feel we should be providing the option for them to do so.

Impossible to provide for this activity in a tub that is 5" tall...

Chris

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This is true and i agree but once you have more than 4 or 5 snakes having them in tanks gets to be a pain to clean, etc etc. So tubs is usually what is used.

I think we need to provide them with proper husbandry before worrying about climbing since they are ground snakes.

Tanks are great for fish :P