Cinnamon Sugar Ball

Am I the only one who is reasonably certain that this is in fact a Cinny Sugar? I mean it's definitely not a high white or extreme example, but it sure looks like one to me. That belly is not normal, even for a ringer. Unless we're saying it is not a Sugar and has a very mild 100% ringer belly? That seems far less likely. Congrats on the Cinnamon Sugar, don't let the comments get you down.

Cheers,
-Matt

Firstly thank you briz and Matt for helping point out what I see. Briz I have seen pictures of your calico het red and it’s beautiful. I’m sure these guys will tell you that you’ve missed the odds but congratulations anyway! I look forward to seeing the red axanthic calico.

Just wanted to put all my thoughts down on this in one post so here we go...

I’m going to start with the belly. Maybe it doesn’t come across very well in the pictures but it is much whiter and cleaner than any pure cinny that I have ever seen. In fact, thank you Aaron for posting the pictures of your black pastels belly as it clearly shows the faded black markings that cinnys and black pastels have and that this girl does not. The yellow ‘trails’ down either side of the belly are on every sugar I have ever produced with the exception of the pewter sugar. I would not expect her to have them though as pewters have such clean bellies that ride up their sides anyway. It is not just a ringer. I assume you have bred sugars before and so are basing your comments that this isn’t a sugar trait on past experience? If so I’d love to see pictures to show this so I know for future reference. Even sugars with more ‘normal’ patterning have tails like this (in MY experience).

Now for her patterning. There are more and less extreme examples of every morph out there. It’s just how it is. This girl hasn’t got the most extreme patterning ever but neither is it ‘standard’. If you look at the back half of her you will see that her pattern is more aberrant than the front half, particularly at the tail. This again is a trait that I have seen in all the sugars I have produced. Maybe with all your vast experience you have found different and again I would be interested to see examples.

The example of how aberrant the pastel sugar is has been used to try and ‘prove’ this girl isn’t a sugar. I do not see your logic on this as the pastel and cinny genes are completely different. Mixing them with other genes does different things to the other gene involved. Mixing them with themselves does completely different things, look at the difference between super pastels and super cinnys!! Just because pastel sugars have ‘whacked out’ patterns it does not mean that all sugars crosses will. It all depends on how the 2 genes work together. How many times have you seen a new combo and it doesn’t look how you expected? It’s because no one knows how 2 genes will react with each other until they have been crossed. Who would’ve thought mixing a YB with a spector would produce something like a superstripe?!

Just because I do not post on forums it does not mean I do not know what I am talking about. Just because you have seen pictures on the internet it does not mean you will know everything about a morph. You pick up on so much more details and traits of a morph once you have them in your collection and interact with them on a daily basis. I am by no means an expert in this field and nor will I ever claim to be. My first reaction when I saw the pewter and cinny sugars was that I had hit the odds, they just looked like they had sugar in them. I emailed pictures to various people who have a lot more experience than you or I with the sugar gene (I’m assuming so anyway, may be you have produced various crosses, in which case I apologise) and everyone has agreed that they are cinny and pewter sugars. I did this because although my immediate reaction was that I had hit the odds I do not have the experience with all the crosses and so wanted more experienced opinions.

Any I’ll stop now before I bore you all too much. Thank you for all your input on this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by briz

Don't need to post pics MATE.

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No need to get fussy, I misread your post and thought you were meaning to post a picture of your for-mentioned animals. I found a thread you posted with the het reds and I see what you are talking about.

I guess I'm wrong in this case, and I have to say I'm disappointed with the results of what a Cinny Sugar looks like. Congrats on hitting on it though.