I have a black pastel - do I also want a cinny?

I have a big male cinny, and just bought a 450g male black pastel to go with my black pastel female this year. I will likely sell the cinny. I do like the one pictured, but anything less than the best examples fall short of the black pastels in my eyes. If I was overrun with breedable female morphs I may have both, but sadly I am not.

I jus bought a outstanding cinny female from Tim Johnson of royal morphz from las vegas
outstanding customer service and the snake i got well i was just speechless here is the link to whats available 250.00 shipped for a female cinny you cant beat it i purchased the female cinny on page 2 sold to greg :) ( super pastel x cinny= sterling) (black pastel x super pastel= Silver streak) i would say cinny and black pastel are both worth having plus ull make pewters with (black pastel x cinny= pewter)
but check out what tim has :)

http://royalmorphz.com/available.php

Hi,

I agree he is a great guy. :D :gj:

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Originally Posted by xloyal

I jus bought a outstanding cinny female from Tim Johnson of royal morphz from las vegas
outstanding customer service and the snake i got well i was just speechless here is the link to whats available 250.00 shipped for a female cinny you cant beat it i purchased the female cinny on page 2 sold to greg :) ( super pastel x cinny= sterling) (black pastel x super pastel= Silver streak) i would say cinny and black pastel are both worth having plus ull make pewters with (black pastel x cinny= pewter)
but check out what tim has :)

http://royalmorphz.com/available.php

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But you seem to have got a little confused somewhere down the line - black pastel is a morph in it's own right nothing to do with the morph we call pastels. :cool:

Some people still call cinnys cinammon pastels as well - the naming of ball python morphs is a perfect example of how to confuse the bejeebus out of everyone. :rolleyes:

So;

super pastel x cinny = pastels and pewters

black pastel x super pastel = pastels and black pewters

black pastel x cinny = normals, black pastels, cinnys and 8balls

And if one of the above 8ball supers was bred to a normal it would produce half the clutch as black pastels and the other half as cinnys.


dr del

Stupid question, but I really don't know the answer. Would a Black Pastel x Het Red Axanthic still make a Gargoyle or is it only the Cinny x Het Red that does that?

Hi,

I think it's called a black gargoyle to differentiate it from the version made with he cinny.


dr del

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Originally Posted by sungmina

Is this based on fact or opinion? Just wondering because I personally find cinnamons to be more attractive (again a personal opinion) but, are cinnamons, beyond a reasonable doubt, considered to be more brown and less black than black pastels? At what point is a cinnamon considered to be black pastel in appearance and vice versa?

I also always saw my cinnamon (and other cinnamons as well as black pastels) as having a more 'warm/reddish' tone than a 'golden' tone compared to normals. Is this also just me?

To the OP, I don't think there is any detriment to having one of each, perhaps for any given season one of the males doesn't make locks, this way you have another male of a very similar morph to get the combos you want. I find cinnamons to have 'cleaner' markings, but there are unique and beautiful qualities in both versions of the morph.

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well just look at the names.. BLACK pastels should be a combination of dark BLACK and gold - CINNAMON is more a focus on how light the black is (almost brown.. like cinnamon) mixed with the gold..

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Originally Posted by h00blah

well just look at the names.. BLACK pastels should be a combination of dark BLACK and gold - CINNAMON is more a focus on how light the black is (almost brown.. like cinnamon) mixed with the gold..

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Is it fact that black pastels are named such because they have black markings and cinnamons are named such because they have brown markings? Because to me, both have *dark* markings on a lighter/warm base. Does anyone know the answer to this for sure or is the above statement an assumption?

Does that mean BANANAS are yellow? And ORANGE dreams are orange?

In my limited experience, neither of these morphs are 'golden' and on the Graziani Reptils website it states:

"One of the males that I picked had an odd cinnamon color and he was not as bright as the rest. His dorsal pattern was normal... After a closer look at him we realized that he contained no yellow pigment. At that time we were calling him a Cinnamon ball python."

This implies that the morph was indeed named after the base color and not the dorsal color which was described as 'normal' which I assume ranges from dark brown to black; nor was the original animal 'golden' in any way.

I don't understand how people can believe that one is UGLY and one is GORGEOUS. They are honestly VERY similar in appearance, and such opinions are based on just that, opinion.

In a hypothetical situation where one were to cross a black pastel to a cinny, would one look at the hatchlings and determine without a doubt which animals were black pastel and which were cinny and confidently label and sell them as such?

Would one be able to look at them be say... ALL the 'ugly' ones were cinnies and ALL the good looking ones were black pastels or vice versa? That doesn't seem reasonable to me. Or all the 'black' ones black pastel and all the brown ones cinny?

Just some questions to think about...

To the OP, my opinion stands, there are benefits to having both variations if you can accommodate having an extra male.

Sorry for going off topic at all!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sungmina

In my limited experience, neither of these morphs are 'golden' and on the Graziani Reptils website it states:

"One of the males that I picked had an odd cinnamon color and he was not as bright as the rest. His dorsal pattern was normal... After a closer look at him we realized that he contained no yellow pigment. At that time we were calling him a Cinnamon ball python."

This implies that the morph was indeed named after the base color and not the dorsal color which was described as 'normal' which I assume ranges from dark brown to black; nor was the original animal 'golden' in any way.

I don't understand how people can believe that one is UGLY and one is GORGEOUS. They are honestly VERY similar in appearance, and such opinions are based on just that, opinion.

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i specifically said "i find" so yes.. it is my opinion... i think both are nice looking, but i guess you require people to start with "IMO".. lol i take everything most people say as opinion unless a person specifically asks "whats better - this or that?" or "what is a HQ this?"..

also, i said a HQ black pastel should focus on the dark BLACK and the gold... (IMO...)...
NERD's black pastel page: "While extremely similar to the Cinnamon trait, Black Pastels are a separate lineage with the same manner of co-dominant inheritance. Black Pastels are high contrast animals, with distinct black background coloration & gold or rust colored patterning."

as far as the cinnys go, yeah i guess i mispoke :bow::rolleyes:. they ARE more reddish.

Personally, I think that black pastels and cinnamons look quite different...
For one thing, blacks usually have the squiggly black lines on the sides around where the 'alien heads' should be. Plus, the heads of each morph look quite distinct. There are some animals that look like they could go either way, but those are simply poor examples of their morph.

Yesterday, I received a Cinnamon female from The Snake Keeper. It was $250 shipped. Dan was great and helpfull & very polite and keeps good records on all the snakes. She arrived at 118 grams and in perfect health. He has Cinnamons and Black Pastels for $200 each. I also purchased a Pastel het Clown female and it was great also. I will be purchasing alot more from them.:taz: