Why all loans should be drawn up in print.

There are times, like now, when I wish I could go play on fauna. I simply can't put my talents to use here and I'd really like to help you out Tim. There have been a couple of others in the recent past who I also wish I could have been of assistance to. Maggie Kimmel in particular.

Anyway, there's this page you guys may not know about. There's a guy here who when you hit him in the head with a board of sufficient size and weight, can take a very subtle hint and make it real.

Wanna help me out, which is nice, but also help others, which is altruistic?

Check this out then:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Bring-...4047558?ref=mf

Tim, if you'd like any help, let me know. Maybe some stratigizing can help bring this to the proper conclusion.

I'm sorry Tim to hear about this. I hope it all works out when some of his other clutches hatch. Well I sure hope he has others to hatch.

I have only done one breeder loan, mostly because I'm obsessively compulsive. I like to have all my chickens where they are suppose to be. It just drives me nuts not to be in control.

Thanks everyone and Wes I know you would help me I just hope I wont need that help. I have the feeling that this will work out and that once a good guy always a good guy is a fair assessment of my partner in this loan.

You're right Tim. There are good guys out there. We all make mistakes. Some are quite large and very public. Some not so much.

The thing is, even the big public ones can be made right. EVERYONE knows what right is. You keep your word. You do what you say you'll do. Hopefully this is just a stressed out guy who made a dumb mistake and will now step up and be a man, not an ed clark.

It's NOT ed clark is it? Because if it is, my expenses just went wayyyyyyyy up.

Sorry to hear this Tim :( I hope it all works out for you bro!!! It is really messed up you were guaranteed the male but because he killed his two breeder males you get screwed over something that wasn't even your fault.

Sorry to hear about this crappy situation, any updates?

We should know on Thursday.

Okay cool, keep us updated

dang that is harsh i can see both sides of your situation but a deal is a deal even if it means leaving himself with-out his prized male he should man up and keep his part of the deal. (it wasn't your fault he over did his male now if it was just to your female only and his male died i could see keeping the only male to replace what was lost but as you stated that he told you he over did his male that was his fualt not yours)just relax it could be a whole lot worse if i was you I'd go get your female and just cut your loses while your female is still alive. next time get it all in writing(i'm no fan of sending my babies out to somebody i never met or know and even if i did i would still have a problem with it. how is it with him saying all the breedings he did with his male that he only got 1 male and 4 females. i saw where you said he told you he breed his male to many females so he should have more then 1 male even if it aint the color morph you want he still has to have more then 1 male


I've asked this question over at mvp forum cause they just to me seem to throw there babies away to get half a clutch from a high end male. not always the female green tree python dies but it does happen from time to time as i'm sure it does with other species of boas and pythons. to me any deal made up should be fair to both people like this. most over there say it is a gamble well when we are suppose to be professional breeders yes we know the risks but that doesn't mean any of us should loose a pet if it is out on loan as any babies born from the breeding should first and foremost replace what was lost
here's how i think a loan thing should look like or very close to it to cover any event of lost animal by either party involved

OK i will loan you my 95% white piebald. anything happens to male or female in breeding they get replaced first.(from the clutch or who ever has them in possession at time of death (both parents should be seen by vet prior to breeding) then if both parents make it threw breeding fine clutch is split to how ever it is decided upon what ever % each person gets. person who loaned should get first pick then other person then back to person loaning and so on and so on

also forgot to say in first post and went past the 10 minute time limit.




my gut says he will do his best to make it right with you maybe if nothing else you say all you wanted from the breeding was a male of such and such color morph maybe hint to him to sell the babies and buy and send you a male of the morph you want as thats all you want right just a male believe you said dessert (could be wrong about color morph if so just input the color morph you want) then you get your male unrelated to your female for future breeding and he gets to keep his male then both of you will be happy


i don't see no need to go getting people to go to his house cause that will cause more problems then it is worth yes these baby color morphs are costly but not worth the problems of lets say you talk to member y who goes out beats his butt and takes his baby male and your female he goes and calls the cops who arrests member y who says i was just doing it to get what was owed to you so then the cops come put you in cuffs also all over a snake. yes a costly snake but still just a snake and that is something with the way things are going for the snake keepers in America is just not needed very bad publicity that could hurt us all.

got to rember as you said he is having family problems which means he is very stressed give him some time to get his family issues taken care of (wouldn't leave your female with him though) and just let him know when he gets a male of the color morph you wanted to send it to you dont go adding to his stress as stressed people do stupid stuff.