Has 8Ballpythons closed down???

Personally I've never thought of Adam as a bad guy. Always seemed up front and honest, good guy to do business with.

But if he does owe money to a few people and hasn't paid them, then yeah, that's wrong and yeah, I'd rather know than get scammed, no matter WHO it is.

If someone sells lemon cars, or defective merchandise, I'd rather know so they don't get more money out of more people. Why is it better to not say anything and let even more people get scammed? I mean geez.. if I sent off a few grand to a guy and he skipped out and never sent snakes or refunds, and some "bud" of mine said "Oh yeah, he got me for $2K too" I'd be a little ticced off that the guy didn't think to tell me. Maybe you're okay with getting scammed because no one told you about the thefts of money? If so, please get with me, I'll reccomend a few people to send all your extra cash to, so you won't be burdened with it. Myself, I prefer to send my money to honest sellers, with good reputations.

In the reptile world, you sell on your reputation ideally. If people have great deals, they talk. But if you screw folks over, they talk too. Would you prefer if no one said anything about any deal they ever did, good or bad? Or is it only okay to say good stuff, but hide the bad? Or is it only when it's a "good guy"?

Personally, I prefer to see proof of a failed transaction before I decide for myself whether there was a scam or not. Since I haven't seen proof from any party whether this was a legit deal that turned into a scam... or whether it was a completed deal, or refund.. I can't form any opinion on THIS particular deal. I fall back on the facts that I've had good dealings with Adam, and have gotten emails from him regarding other things(not related to buying/selling reptiles).

But in general, heck yes I want to hear about people getting scammed and who it was and for how much etc! Otherwise all the Nigerian bank scams would still be working on everyone!

Adam never denied that he scammed this guy. He got on the last thread and said, 'this is my other email account and everything is ready on my part' (that was 2 years after the fact if I'm thinking right). I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but with an educated guess, I'm thinking he acknowledges that he screwed that guy over and is apparently ready to send the snakes at any moment????....which I'm sure he already sold those snakes to someone else and doubled his money on them. I sure as heck doubt he's been taking care of them for all these years out of the goodness of his heart. I'm really PO'd about this. Had he not got on and said that, I would be iffy if he really did that or not without proof, but since he did, it's evident to me that he owes people money. When I hear that he's done this to several people, that is really upsetting, and believable since his reputation is already shattered. No business owner has the right to do that to ANYONE and get away with it, regardless how fantastic their business/products are.

And to the others who also agree this is wrong, you are absolutely right. There is no reason this issue should be kept under wraps. It seems like people want to protect him because he's "such an awesome guy", but that's obviously not the case anymore and people just won't accept that. If someone scammed me I would post about it, if someone scammed someone else I hope they would post about it too so I don't make the same mistake!!!! That's what this entire section of the forums is for!!!! There aren't many legal avenues to take, and the ones you can take are either worthless or cost way too much money. Been there done that. I like what Skiploder said. 'If I screwed you out of 2k I would expect you to be quite because it's a private deal between the two of us.' No repercussions for theft?! Good lord if everyone kept their trap shut about private deals I would be rich. Who wouldn't get in on a deal like that?

Also, I would not support whatever group he is running/supporting. His ethics are clearly not up to par. There is no excuse for his actions.

Rant ended, but I'm still PO'd. I'm glad some people don't let the infamous get away with dirty deeds.

@Stephanie
I'm curious how you could know what's gone on between the OP and Adam since this was last brought up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lockes

Hey Everyone

You may have read my thread under enquiries but I would like to know if 8Ballpythons has closed down?

I am owed a refund but not been able to get Adam to respond to my emails:mad:

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You need to post all the info you have had with Adam. I spoke to him in person yesterday at a reptile show. He sent you a email a few days ago and has yet to hear back from you. Also you and your partner need to get together and figure out who is getting what money back, since Adam did tell me that you are not in this alone. He wants to refund you and said he will be sending you chunks of money per month but needs to organize things with you and your partner before doing so. Till you post proof of your side of the story people are going to find it hard to believe since every story has two sides. Your side is missing some major parts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

Adam never denied that he scammed this guy. He got on the last thread and said, 'this is my other email account and everything is ready on my part' (that was 2 years after the fact if I'm thinking right). I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but with an educated guess, I'm thinking he acknowledges that he screwed that guy over and is apparently ready to send the snakes at any moment????....which I'm sure he already sold those snakes to someone else and doubled his money on them. I sure as heck doubt he's been taking care of them for all these years out of the goodness of his heart.

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You sure throw that word "scammed" around pretty freely without any proof. You don't know what they may or may not have agreed upon, or what the terms were because neither Lockes nor Adam has ever provided any specifics. Hell, Lockes can't even seem to accurately state if he ordered 15 snakes or 17 snakes, when he paid for them or even how much he paid. He has contradicted himself on those points across several different forums. Rather than getting mad about something that has nothing to do with you directly you should put forth the energy to try and gather enough facts to form an educated opinion rather than going off half cocked based on partial info and hearsay.

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Originally Posted by Gecko Den

You sure throw that word "scammed" around pretty freely without any proof. You don't know what they may or may not have agreed upon, or what the terms were because neither Lockes nor Adam has ever provided any specifics. Hell, Lockes can't even seem to accurately state if he ordered 15 snakes or 17 snakes, when he paid for them or even how much he paid. He has contradicted himself on those points across several different forums. Rather than getting mad about something that has nothing to do with you directly you should put forth the energy to try and gather enough facts to form an educated opinion rather than going off half cocked based on partial info and hearsay.

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None of this changes the fact that on three occasions on two forums Adam has admitted owing these two gentlemen money - and he's admitted he's at fault.

Period.

I could care less whether it's $1 or $10,000. He owes, he's owed for awhile and it's come to light on the BOI that he was upside down on business with two other customers.
Adam was a sponsor of this site for along time. If he cares about the future of NatPet and a potential return to the industry then he needs to address these issues himself.
After the BOI thread was started it appears he attempted to contact Andrew and also contact or made amends with the two other individuals who came forth with claims against him.

This has been going on for over two years with promises to resolve the issue now going back at least four months ago. So now he's tried to contact Andrew this week? Wheeeee...............

I wonder where Andrew and his other two customers would have been without the BOI thread..........

For the record - January 22nd of this Year (when asked about Andrew's thread on BPN and why it hasn't been resolved):

It has been ... privately.

Thank you for your concern, it's appreciated.

-adam

For the record - when asked why it had taken two years to resolve (same date):

Yes, several. I take full responsibility. I have apologized to the buyers for my mistakes, and offered a resolution that was happily accepted. All parties involved are moving forward positively and I've taken steps to make sure that my mistakes are not repeated.

-adam

For the record - from March 19 of this year on this forum:

Andrew,

I responded to your PM ... As requested, please use my adam@natpet.org email address for all contacts. My 8ballpythons.com address does not seem to be working reliably and I don't check my PM's here often enough.

I'm all set on this end.

-adam

So Sam - it appears it has taken two years to resolve and it appears Adam took full responsibility for this up until a few months ago.

Does the fact that Andrew has claimed 15 or 17 snakes $4750 or $5000 dollars make a difference when Adam has gone on the record for admitting that this issue has dragged on for over two years and that he take full responsibility?

Or am I dealing in hearsay when I quote directly from Wysocki's posts?

So again, I ask the question. How do you know what's been said and done between the two parties since this has come up again? I only ask because when Adam admitted fault before it was almost 4 months ago. Do you know how many time he's tried to contact the OP to make it right? Do we know how many Cites shipping windows have come and gone do to the OP not responding to requests to set up shipping? Do we know how many times the OP has been contacted by Adam in the last few days?
Oh, you don't actually know the answers to any of those questions? Again, I was just curious how those of you who have deemed him a "scammer" have come to that conclusion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Adam was a sponsor of this site for along time.

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Just need to clarify this - Adam has never been a sponsor of BP.net - nor has anyone. He has paid to run an advertising banner, but we've never had "sponsors".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

None of this changes the fact that on three occasions on two forums Adam has admitted owing these two gentlemen money - and he's admitted he's at fault.

Period.

I could care less whether it's $1 or $10,000. He owes, he's owed for awhile and it's come to light on the BOI that he was upside down on business with two other customers.
Adam was a sponsor of this site for along time. If he cares about the future of NatPet and a potential return to the industry then he needs to address these issues himself.
After the BOI thread was started it appears he attempted to contact Andrew and also contact or made amends with the two other individuals who came forth with claims against him.

This has been going on for over two years with promises to resolve the issue now going back at least four months ago. So now he's tried to contact Andrew this week? Wheeeee...............

I wonder where Andrew and his other two customers would have been without the BOI thread..........

For the record - January 22nd of this Year (when asked about Andrew's thread on BPN and why it hasn't been resolved):

It has been ... privately.

Thank you for your concern, it's appreciated.

-adam

For the record - when asked why it had taken two years to resolve (same date):

Yes, several. I take full responsibility. I have apologized to the buyers for my mistakes, and offered a resolution that was happily accepted. All parties involved are moving forward positively and I've taken steps to make sure that my mistakes are not repeated.

-adam

For the record - from March 19 of this year on this forum:

Andrew,

I responded to your PM ... As requested, please use my adam@natpet.org email address for all contacts. My 8ballpythons.com address does not seem to be working reliably and I don't check my PM's here often enough.

I'm all set on this end.

-adam

So Sam - it appears it has taken two years to resolve and it appears Adam took full responsibility for this up until a few months ago.

Does the fact that Andrew has claimed 15 or 17 snakes $4750 or $5000 dollars make a difference when Adam has gone on the record for admitting that this issue has dragged on for over two years and that he take full responsibility?

Or am I dealing in hearsay when I quote directly from Wysocki's posts?

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I don't know and neither do you. Perhaps Adam took responsibility because they were working things out and he didn't want to make the guy look bad? Maybe Lockes kept changing the terms they had agreed on, maybe Adam didn't keep to the terms, we don't know because neither side has posted proof of anything.

Just so I'm clear though, when you quote from Adam I'm supposed to accept your interpretation of Adam's statements as gospel; but when I quote the discrepancies in Lockes stories that "doesn't make a difference"? Glad to see that you are keeping an open mind to all of the possibilities here :rolleyes:

Regardless, I'm not inclined to discuss it with you any further. You feel one way and I feel another way; whether or not we agree, neither of us will be changing the others mind on the matter, so it is a moot point.

This is exactly why I save the boi for drunken laughs and go to ball pythons.net for when I'm sober willing to have a real conversation. I am perfectly happy with "should I do business with blah blah blah?" "yes" or "no".

I don't really care if you were ripped off $1 or a million. All I need is a yes or no. To be honest, there are so many good people in the industry if I had one "no" I'd split.

But anyways. I thought stuff like this wasn't allowed on this site :(.