If it's ok to...

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Originally Posted by mykee

I beg to differ; ALL spiders wobble.
Whether they do loopdy-loops right out of the egg, or if it takes a year to exhibit mild symptoms, they all do it eventually.
Every single last one of them.

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He did say NEAR perfect.

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Originally Posted by SK_Exotics

Well seriously, it could be marketed.

Say i sell my very own line of "loop de loop" ball pythons to pet shops and people buy in. People could possibly like that quirky behavior.

So if its apparently ok to breed spiders despite the wobble, then would that be ok to do?

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I'm a bit confused what your "agenda" is in starting this. Is it to make a stand that spiders shouldn't be bred at all? An all or nothing thing?

Bottom line - either you enjoy the spider morph and understand that all spiders will have a wobble, or you don't. If it's not for you - then cool - don't get them.

I happen to love the spider gene, I have four of them in my collection - two males and two females. All four are mild wobblers, all four eat, poop and shed and the one old enough to breed, breeds.

It's pretty clear from your posts that a spider likely isn't a good choice for your collection.

We don't know whether spiders can be line bred for more or less wobble.

What we know is that the trait is tied directly to the spider mutation, and spiders that do not appear to wobble will produce offspring that do, to various degrees--and spiders with a bad wobble can produce offspring with very little wobble.

Now, every once in a blue moon, a spider is born that is such a 'train wreck' that you have to put the food in its mouth for it to eat, because it falls all over itself and can't find it. This is rare, but happens. It's an example of what happens when the snake has a very extreme wobble.

In its most common form, the spider wobble is harmless. You certainly would not want to breed spiders to increase the wobble, because if you succeeded in increasing it, then a trait that is largely harmless would turn into one that is detrimental to their survival. Creating train wrecks would be a bad thing.

Most people try to breed for minimal wobble. The desirable spiders in breeding programs are those with little to no noticeable wobble. There are some who feel that, given time, the trait can be minimized, even if it cannot be eliminated. Time will tell.

There are also some people who simply ignore the wobble, and breed for pretty. They produce lots of healthy spiders as well.

So again, if your question is serious--too much wobble has proven to be detrimental to the snakes, so you would not want to try to make the wobble more extreme than it already is.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I'm a bit confused what your "agenda" is in starting this. Is it to make a stand that spiders shouldn't be bred at all? An all or nothing thing?

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I dont have an agenda, but i did want to just point out an ethical question to people who breed spiders. I am kind of new to these morphs.

I mean, if a trainwreck wobble can come out of no where, and people admit that a wobble is unfavorable, why breed them in the first place? Its like having everyone board the titanic knowing that it will probably sink, just because you want to keep ticket profits.

I think you just said it yourself.....your new

Get to reading around and learn more about the wobble

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Originally Posted by SK_Exotics

I dont have an agenda, but i did want to just point out an ethical question to people who breed spiders. I am kind of new to these morphs.

I mean, if a trainwreck wobble can come out of no where, and people admit that a wobble is unfavorable, why breed them in the first place? Its like having everyone board the titanic knowing that it will probably sink, just because you want to keep ticket profits.

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Originally Posted by SK_Exotics

I dont have an agenda, but i did want to just point out an ethical question to people who breed spiders. I am kind of new to these morphs.

I mean, if a trainwreck wobble can come out of no where, and people admit that a wobble is unfavorable, why breed them in the first place? Its like having everyone board the titanic knowing that it will probably sink, just because you want to keep ticket profits.

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Thats like saying a couple who has a 1 in a 1000 chance of producing a down syndrome baby shouldn't have kids.

Just because something might happen doesn't mean you shouldn't try for all the healthy offspring that will be much more likely to result from breeding a spider. I have a spider male in my collection. I plan on getting a female in the near future. My male has a slight wobble but he eats like a machine and is otherwise, normal. I will breed him despite his wobble. Now, if I get hatchling after hatchling after hatchling who are all trainwrecks, then I would no longer breed him.

I did all the viewing and reading i need to do. Here is what i got from it:


Wobble is not good, but people breed spiders anyways.
Just look at this thread and try to say the above is incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Thats like saying a couple who has a 1 in a 1000 chance of producing a down syndrome baby shouldn't have kids.

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No it's like saying a couple who has a 100 percent chance of having a kid with even a slight disorder, will still have one.

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Originally Posted by SK_Exotics

I dont have an agenda, but i did want to just point out an ethical question to people who breed spiders. I am kind of new to these morphs.

I mean, if a trainwreck wobble can come out of no where, and people admit that a wobble is unfavorable, why breed them in the first place? Its like having everyone board the titanic knowing that it will probably sink, just because you want to keep ticket profits.

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If you don't like it than you don't have to breed them. The spider wobble bothers me a lot. I have decided not to work with spiders because of it. It's a tough choice, especially after seeing the lavender spider and a few other cool combos. I don't look down on or try to judge anyone that thinks differently though. It's up to each breeder to decide what he/she wants to work with. I don't think it is my place to try to tell others what to do.

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Originally Posted by SK_Exotics

No it's like saying a couple who has a 100 percent chance of having a kid with even a slight disorder, will still have one.

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I was referring to the trainwrecked spider. The thing is, a wobble isn't necessarily bad. In mild cases it doesn't stop the snake from eating, pooping, moving around the enclosure, or any other normal behavior.

If you don't like the spider wobble or the spider gene, then don't own or breed them. Simple as that. I don't breed snakes for the money, so you can't use that argument on me. I will breed my spiders because I like the morph and the morph possibilities.