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  • 02-11-2010, 07:10 PM
    Ham
    Re: Snakes/Reptiles and their Emotions The argument
    I think its funny that people say snakes cannot experience emotion, since a snake is not a human being and you cannot really communicate with one it is almost impossible to really know whether they experience emotion or not...
    They may have small brains but a large brain does not always equate to emotion, some human beings like sociopaths experience little to no emotion whatsoever, atleast what we would call emotion... A snake may experience something akin to emotion however their thoughts are incomprehensible to us, so no one can truly say. However I believe its possible for them to be somewhat emotional, I mean I like people that feed me, and clean up after me, and I am sure that snakes can equate humans with food, and they definitely can be tamed, which means they can learn, why cant they learn to prefer certain people then? After all they are smart enough to survive in the wild which is a very unfriendly place for them, this alone requires cunning to continue to exist in such an environment. They are smart enough to be afraid why cant they be smart enough to experience something akin to the opposite of fear? We will most likely never know, but I like to think my snake is atleast a little fond of me...
  • 02-11-2010, 07:32 PM
    Jay_Bunny
    Re: Snakes/Reptiles and their Emotions The argument
    Snakes are not like dogs and cats though. They live on instinct. They probably prefer to perch on humans only because we are warm. (which is why even my cats choose to sleep on and around me at night. We humans are merely walking heating elements) When they are "cuddling" up against your neck, under your hair, they are not being affectionate. They are simply seeking the warmest part of your body since room temperature is a bit chilly for them. And kissing (by means of tapping their nose to a part of your body or flicking their tongue and it touches you) is probably just them exploring their surroundings. The smells coming from your body (smells coming from your mouth) change all the time and when a snake smells something different, it has to investigate. When you are holding them and they refuse to leave you to go to another person that is probably because when a snake has found a nice warm spot, they are not likely to leave it as long as they are not being threatened or are not disturbed. This does not mean they prefer you specifically, they are just comfortable where they are and prefer not to expend more energy in finding another spot.

    I don't believe ANY of my snakes can show affection. We want to think they do because we as a species are social and display a wide variety of emotions. So when we have an emotional attachment to our snakes, we naturally expect some kind of response back (kind of like grooming in cats.) Any action that is based purely in instinct (seeking warmth, smelling their surroundings, etc) we take as affection (kissing, cuddling, not wanting to leave our hands.) :rolleyes:
  • 02-11-2010, 07:39 PM
    ed4281
    Re: Snakes/Reptiles and their Emotions The argument
    My snakes definatly show a prefrence for who is handeling them, my pastel likes my partner and my normal likes me to the point where she stares at me while I am typing at my computer and loves to be handled by me only, she bites every one else.

    Also you just hear them thinking; Oh Great Bringer of rodents..........

    However I dont think that they really feel emotions like we do.
  • 02-11-2010, 07:43 PM
    rabernet
    Re: Snakes/Reptiles and their Emotions The argument
    I don't require that my snakes reciprocate my feelings for them in order to love and appreciate them for being exactly what they are supposed to be - a snake. I've adopted many snakes and sent out many snakes - none of them had any problem adapting to a new keeper, and they certainly didn't mourn the loss of their previous owner or miss them in any way.
  • 02-11-2010, 08:02 PM
    kellysballs
    Re: Snakes/Reptiles and their Emotions The argument
    People anthropomorphize all the time. We do it to our dogs, cats, computers and even snakes. I personally believe that snakes do not have the ability to feel emotions. I do believe they feel pain to some extent, discomfort, comfort, and instinctual fear.

    That being said, I also believe that the animals we keep should be cared for properly. If someone believes that their snake loves them and that makes them care for the animal better, go for it.

    I have a friend that bought a pastel ball python from me last year. He swears the Denny (the snake) is as smart as his cat and twice as personable. He also thinks that Denny loves him. It makes my friend happy to believe this and he cares for his pet very very well so even though I disagree with the snakes feel emotions thing I am all for proper care of captive animals.
  • 02-11-2010, 08:17 PM
    Ham
    Re: Snakes/Reptiles and their Emotions The argument
    I see all you guys points, but I dont honestly think you can say that snakes have no emotions, or that they do for sure, there is really no way to tell either way, evidence for either idea is purely objective and is colored by our own perceptions, so it really comes down to what u want to believe, some people believe they are instinctual automatons, and others believe they can experience atleast something that could be called "emotion"...

    It has been shown in tests that Komodo Dragons exhibit play behaviour at certain times, admittedly they also like to eat eachother, lol. So who knows? maybe some snakes get a kick out of warm smelly humans, there is no way to tell...

    I will tell you one pet that doesnt seem like the best canidate for emotion, and that would be my tarantulas, they do however change demeanor, I have noticed that on some days they are just pissy, and others they can be relaxed, is that emotion ? Who knows?!

    Anyway I am getting off point here, the original point was that people who say snakes dont feel emotion could be just as wrong as the people who say they do, we cannot easily prove either theory...
  • 02-11-2010, 09:25 PM
    BPelizabeth
    Re: Snakes/Reptiles and their Emotions The argument
    Geez you guys are all bummers!! My snakes totally love me lots and lots...well except maybe Samantha. I think she has the hots for my hubby. Little..."bleep"...:oops:


    I think they recognize our smell and I think that they feel safe with us. I also think that some have more personality than others. I think sometimes they have fun doing certain things....going to certain places in the house...etc.

    I do think they are very intelligent creatures. And honestly....no one really knows if they have emotions. I mean....who am I to say they don't.
  • 02-12-2010, 12:12 AM
    MustBeSatan
    Re: Snakes/Reptiles and their Emotions The argument
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ham View Post
    I see all you guys points, but I dont honestly think you can say that snakes have no emotions, or that they do for sure, there is really no way to tell either way, evidence for either idea is purely objective and is colored by our own perceptions, so it really comes down to what u want to believe, some people believe they are instinctual automatons, and others believe they can experience atleast something that could be called "emotion"...

    It has been shown in tests that Komodo Dragons exhibit play behaviour at certain times, admittedly they also like to eat eachother, lol. So who knows? maybe some snakes get a kick out of warm smelly humans, there is no way to tell...

    I will tell you one pet that doesnt seem like the best canidate for emotion, and that would be my tarantulas, they do however change demeanor, I have noticed that on some days they are just pissy, and others they can be relaxed, is that emotion ? Who knows?!

    Anyway I am getting off point here, the original point was that people who say snakes dont feel emotion could be just as wrong as the people who say they do, we cannot easily prove either theory...


    Actually, we can prove that reptiles (or your pet spiders) do not have emotion. While it's true that brain SIZE doesn't determine function, brain STRUCTURE does. Reptiles simply don't have the parts of the brain necessary to experience emotion. Triune brain theory may be the easiest way to understand how our brains differ from reptile brains, if you're interested in learning more about it. In any case, reptiles have the most basic brain components, but that's about it. Sorry to burst your bubble.
  • 02-12-2010, 09:27 AM
    BPelizabeth
    Re: Snakes/Reptiles and their Emotions The argument
    But how can you say that? They have the ability to get mad....they have the ability to get scared.....why not the ability to be happy? Why not the ability to feel other things? Do I think they feel like us....NO.....but either do dogs. Not like we do! From a scientific avenue.... I think that we underestimate animals and reptiles all the time. We are learning new things about all sorts of species everyday and the capablities they have. Who are we to say they don't....I mean.....I have never experienced being a snake and the bottom line it has NOT been proven!!

    Now with that being said....I am totally over the top with my snakes and I admitt it openly. But I see them with their favorite spots in the house that they know are there. Henry loves to go behind the bookcase...same bookcase everyday. Elizabeth always goes for the legos and rummages around in them. Sam...she loves the stairs and always goes to the stairs. So this ...tells me....that they have a memory of where things are....and what they like.

    I dunno....Im just saying!! ;) Again my disclaimer.....I overly love and adore everyone and everything in my house. Just me :P
  • 02-12-2010, 12:32 PM
    RockyTop
    Re: Snakes/Reptiles and their Emotions The argument
    The way it was described to me and how I recall reading it is this. It may not be accurate, but makes sense to me. I am no means a brain surgeon (no pub intended ha).

    The feeling of comfort, security, defensiveness, etc are all instincts that are from a different part of the brain. The part of the brain that is responsible for sentimental emotions (love, hate, happy, jealous, etc), our snakes lack.

    They could have a 5 lb brain the size of a grapefruit, but if they lacked that part of the brain, they won't have those emotions.

    i.e, a lot of behavioral issues in humans can be attested to damage or imbalances in parts of the brain that control said emotions.

    So whether we like it or not, the part of a brain that controls said emotions (love, hate, jealousy, etc is nothing more than chemicals released in your brain) simply do not exist in our snakes.



    There is nothing wrong developing an attachment to your snake and giving your snake perceived emotions. I do it :)
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