?? on my new meican pine snake and bullsnake

Oh man there's lots of papers on this subject! Stop trying to pretend to know a lot about this subject. First of all, rat snakes are not "most" colubrids. Second, garter snakes ARE venomous.

Later, Matt

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

Correct me if wrong but can you prove me that most colubrids like corns,rats,garters are venmous. Since Venmous snakes if not mistaken DO NOT constrict. I would love to see documented proof to prove me wrong that most colubrids are venomous.

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Corns, rats, pits and kings are not venomous. Garters are. So are dispholidus, thrasops, thelatornis, rhabdophis, rhamphiophis, philodryas, telescopus, hydrodynastes, psammophis, boiga etc. etc. All colubrids. All produce venom. All documented.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/science/05veno.html

Then go educate yourself. Dr. Fry has a wonderful website called Venomdoc with a forum and links to research papers (all free!) which document the fact that venomous colubrids are the rule - not the exception.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Oh man there's lots of papers on this subject! Stop trying to pretend to know a lot about this subject. First of all, rat snakes are not "most" colubrids. Second, garter snakes ARE venomous.

Later, Matt

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;)

I do agree. Just because YOU don't consider anything with venom to be a colubrid, doesn't make it right. Until it's scientifically altered, a hognose and the like will continue to be colubrids, despite your personal views.

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Originally Posted by PyroPython

Really, the majority of colubrids are non-venomous. Aside from Hognose and Boomslangs, and the northern cat-eyed snake (just a few to mention here), there really aren't too many that ARE venomous.

But I do agree. Just because YOU don't consider anything with venom to be a colubrid, doesn't make it right. Until it's scientifically altered, a hognose and the like will continue to be colubrids, despite your personal views.

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In bold - wrong.

Most are. It's documented. Saying it isn't, does not make it so.

http://www.venomdoc.com/forums/viewt...ight=colubrids

If I may be allowed to quote form someone who has actually done research:

"Most colubrid snakes have very potent venom but produce very small amounts of it and typically have quite small rear fangs."

As for garters:

http://www.venomdoc.com/forums/viewt...light=sirtalis

Pay atterntion to WW's posts - that's Dr. Wolfgang Wuster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_W%C3%BCster

I stand corrected then. I never owned anything that was considered venomous in colubrids. Only colubrid i owned when i had them were corns and kings, there for i never researched anything else, nor did anything pop out at me saying others were venomous.

Yeah, thats why I edited it. Mind is a little off today. My bad.

wow i had no idea... i handle garter snakes all the time in my backyard. should i stop doing that?

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Originally Posted by monty's dad

wow i had no idea... i handle garter snakes all the time in my backyard. should i stop doing that?

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They won't kill ya.

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Originally Posted by PyroPython

Yeah, thats why I edited it. Mind is a little off today. My bad.

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:)