these prices have to be fake... right?...

Those prices don't seem to be out of line. The market is flooded with male spiders, pastels, and yellowbellies... You'll be surprised at what you can get for a really good price if you meet up and offer cash.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Which one are you talking about....that Black Razor one is amazing!!! I would totally buy that.....but I don't know that breeder and would be a little scared to just send off cash to someone I had not heard of. But $500 wow...to me that is pretty cheap but then again I am a total newbie

---

You're mistaking the prices. $500 is for his black pastel line that can make those Black Razors (when combined with an Ian G. line black pastel). If you want a Black Razor, he's charging $6000 for those.

I know this breeder personally and he does not have sick or poor quality animals. I don't think he's a market crasher or a scammer. I've purchased a mojave female two years ago for $200 at Whiteplains and I've seen other breeder selling base-morphs for under $100, so I'm not sure why everyone here is bashing him.

Yeah, I hate the fact base morphs are getting so cheap now a-days, but what are you going to do. I've seen cinny males going for $75 on KS and I've read threads here on BP.net for spider for the same price.

You have to remember something with the more common single gene co-dom stuff. Most breeders produce those as byproduct in the process of producing combos like Bumblebees, Pastel Mojaves, Pewters. That stuff is bound to come down eventually.

Single co-doms are no longer investment animals in my opinion, so I don't think it's necessary to crucify the guy.

look at how fast pieds are coming down now. Should be able to pick them up next season for around 500-600 dollars

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Denial

look at how fast pieds are coming down now. Should be able to pick them up next season for around 500-600 dollars

---

Yep...I've already seen males at $650 and they have over 20 available. People have been cranking those out in numbers for years. I remember one guy literally had 100 available (with pics too) a couple years ago.

If you buy pieds looking to just make more pieds, it might not be such a great investment....but if you buy a pied and spider (or whatever) het pied, you could do some pretty neat things.

It's all about the combo...single mutations get produced almost by accident now. lol

I know Tom and have purchased from him. He is not a scammer or trying to crash the market. I have not spoken to him in some time but he is most likely just trying to sell off his 09 babies to make some room for this season. He would never sell anyone a sick or problem feeder. His enclosures are very clean and he has no problem with anyone picking up any animal at his facility and showing you around. Tom is one of the good guys.

There are other ads out that should shock us.

If someone thinks the prices are too low, they are welcome to buy up all the low priced animals and try and corner the market. Good luck with that plan :)

My opinion is, if you think his prices are so low, that you are willing to comment on how low they are, why not just buy them? Maybe, just maybe, because the prices are not that low, just lower than what you want to sell your animals for, and you are peeved?

Look guys and gals, prices are going to drop every year. Some morphs more than others, Single Co Dom males more than most everything else. It is just the reality of the Ball world. In what other business does every customer one day become a competitor?

Take Pastels.....there is a Super form, so breeding a Super male to a normal female will give you all Pastels. If you have a Super Pastel male, chances are you have a few normal females, and will not just breed him to one, but two, or three. Then you might breed him to a Spider, which will produce normal Pastels too. If you breed your normal Pastel male to a few normal females, you end up with a ton of Pastels. Selling the combos is pretty easy, but try selling 10 Pastel males, 15 Pastel males......

I do not run into this problem because I suck so bad as a Ball breeder, that the most babies I have hatched in one year is 30. Yup, the MOST babies I have produced in a single year is 30. Feel free to laugh all you want, but you have never seen me having a self forced SALE because I overproduced Mojave males, an Everything must Go sale, a buy one get two free sale, naw, I price my animals according to what I see on the net, and what I feel they are worth, and since I am no morph factory, I sell out each and every year. And out of those 30 Balls I produced, all were morphs but 6.

Now, sometimes when breeding say a Mojave cross, you produce a few too many Mojave males, that will and can happen every so often. But, if you breed your Super Mojave male to 10 normal females, and have so many Mojave males that you have to price them so low, and ruin it for others, THAT is a different story altogether...just plain ole greed and ignorance and piss poor planning on your part...don't get me started!

Dave

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EmberBall

My opinion is, if you think his prices are so low, that you are willing to comment on how low they are, why not just buy them? Maybe, just maybe, because the prices are not that low, just lower than what you want to sell your animals for, and you are peeved?

Look guys and gals, prices are going to drop every year. Some morphs more than others, Single Co Dom males more than most everything else. It is just the reality of the Ball world. In what other business does every customer one day become a competitor?

Take Pastels.....there is a Super form, so breeding a Super male to a normal female will give you all Pastels. If you have a Super Pastel male, chances are you have a few normal females, and will not just breed him to one, but two, or three. Then you might breed him to a Spider, which will produce normal Pastels too. If you breed your normal Pastel male to a few normal females, you end up with a ton of Pastels. Selling the combos is pretty easy, but try selling 10 Pastel males, 15 Pastel males......

I do not run into this problem because I suck so bad as a Ball breeder, that the most babies I have hatched in one year is 30. Yup, the MOST babies I have produced in a single year is 30. Feel free to laugh all you want, but you have never seen me having a self forced SALE because I overproduced Mojave males, an Everything must Go sale, a buy one get two free sale, naw, I price my animals according to what I see on the net, and what I feel they are worth, and since I am no morph factory, I sell out each and every year. And out of those 30 Balls I produced, all were morphs but 6.

Now, sometimes when breeding say a Mojave cross, you produce a few too many Mojave males, that will and can happen every so often. But, if you breed your Super Mojave male to 10 normal females, and have so many Mojave males that you have to price them so low, and ruin it for others, THAT is a different story altogether...just plain ole greed and ignorance and piss poor planning on your part...don't get me started!

Dave

---

Exactly. :gj:

Morph males that virtually no breeder has a use for is a new concept in the ball python world, but it almost goes without saying in the leopard gecko world, etc.

You just have to look at it and say "so what?" if a guy can buy a pastel male for $50. I'm not planning to pay my overhead by selling pastel males. Furthermore, most people buying a pastel male are new ball python owners or smaller hobbyist breeders. They're not doing it for money and they're probably not going to produce 14 pastels when they do breed it.

Those snakes have basically replaced the normals in my clutches now. If I can do better than $20 (CB normal price) and get to look at one more ball python morph this season, that's cool with me.

When I see things like that I think one of two things. ITs a scam or its someone new to the market and figures they can give themselves a little bit of an edge by lowering there prices a bit from the norm. Thats what I did with my first babies . Now I know some will jump in a say things like this is ruining the market values but I see different. Look at ppl like Brian and Ralph they never lower their prices because they know their name and quality are very widely known. But do you think they always did this. You don't think for one second that maybe in the beginning they made a few deals just to initially get their names out there then from there let the quality of their animal dictate the prices.