That was the last time! I hope...

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Originally Posted by withonor

I get attached the first time I look at an animal that is in my possession. I really hope my snake will take to F/T rats. It will be cheaper for me also considering live rats are about $4 where I live so the $55 shipping charge that most online dealers have still comes out to be less as long as I get 30-40 rats. I got a quote from Big Cheese for 30 rats it would be $70.95 which would be perfect except that they had a terrible loss recently because of a power outage, losing 70% of their rats, so they won't have any available till the end of December. :(

If I had two or more snakes food would be a real bargain online... Maybe I should get another...

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Before you buy in bulk online, make sure your snake will eat F/T. If none of the stores near you sell F/T, you can do it yourself. When I was switching my snakes over, first I tried pre-killed. The easiest way I found was just putting the rats in a cooler and then putting some dry-ice in a container with holes and putting that in the cooler with the rats.. they just go to sleep. You can also get a CO2 tank from a paintball gun store and do it that way. Anyway, once your snake will eat P/K, then freeze one or two and next time thaw those out and see if your snake will take them. Make sure you thaw them out slowly (do NOT put in the microwave.. trust me.. LOL), and get them pretty warm, especially around the head. I use a hairdryer. Most of my snakes prefer when I make the rat "walk" past their hides. Then they just come out the opening of the hide and strike, then drag it back inside with them. I think it makes them feel more secure. But it'd be a waste to buy a bunch of frozen rats only to find out that your snake won't eat them.

If Big Cheese is still out, try RodentPro. I buy from them online and their shopping cart tells you how much space is left in the box so you can maximize your order for the shipping you pay.

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Originally Posted by blushingball419

First of all, that is a BEAUTIFUL reduced pattern bp you have there :D

I know exactly how you feel. I'm an animal lover too (although I completely agree with you about Homo sapiens), and my ball python absolutely refuses to eat frozen thawed. My corn snakes are more or less eating machines and will eat anything you put in front of them, but my girl will have none of it. And although I don't really care for mice personally, I still feel a twinge of guilt every time I buy one and drop it in with her. I just try not to think about it and tell myself that I love my snake more and she has to eat. But still I do feel bad, and my family doesn't help when they're always asking me "how can you do it?" and "oh that poor little mouse" etc. I really never want to have to feed her rats...that's going to be tough.

So yeah, you can try to switch him to frozen thawed. It is probably better in many ways...but if he's been eating live mice his whole life, it might be difficult.

I agree that you shouldn't feed him in the bathtub, the shower curtain being the main reason :P I feed all of my snakes in a separate container (sterilite) just so they don't accidentally ingest any of their bedding, but you can definitely feed him in his enclosure too. If you do have to feed him live again though, make sure to remove any decorations from the tank so they don't get in the way.

Good luck, and I hope you can convert him to f/t. You really do have a nice snake there regardless. Just know that you're not the only one who feels bad about feeding live. Sometimes it ends up being a necessary evil though unfortunately

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I like that idea, feeding in a sterilite container. Not because I'm against feeding him in the tank but because it's really crowded and is the reason I didn't try feeding him in there that first night. I really don't want to have to take everything out. After reading the post about people showing their enclosures and I wondered how they fit all that stuff in them. I was told the tank I was getting was about 30 gallons so I go and measure it. 30x12x12 which is only 20 gallons....

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...r/Zeek1016.jpg

I have no way to fit a second hide in there, though I though about raising his water bowl somehow so he could go under it. The more I see him use that half log I think I need to get a bigger hide. He oozes out all the openings while he's in there. Taking measurements reminds me I need to get a piece of plexiglass for the top tomorrow. I've been using a shirt to keep the heat in but that's lowering the humidity.

I hope I can convert him.

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Originally Posted by PolkaDotPenguin

Wow you are an awesome writer! Congrats on your new snake!

But warning: They becoming very addicting!!! :)

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Thanks.

Yes, I have seen a morph line that I really like, but I mustn't speak its name! The thought must remain a fleeting fantasy so that it doesn't come to fruition. The idea of getting a male and female to try and produce a clean.... Gah! Supress the urge!

That Ball Python is amazing, i love that reduced pattern. It will get easier over time and soon enough you will realize its just the cycle of life. I have had pet rats that i would never feed to my snakes. But then i also go buy mice and rats to feed to my snakes every week. You'll get used to it and realize that a full snake, is a happy snake!

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Originally Posted by EchoPet

Before you buy in bulk online, make sure your snake will eat F/T. If none of the stores near you sell F/T, you can do it yourself. When I was switching my snakes over, first I tried pre-killed. The easiest way I found was just putting the rats in a cooler and then putting some dry-ice in a container with holes and putting that in the cooler with the rats.. they just go to sleep. You can also get a CO2 tank from a paintball gun store and do it that way. Anyway, once your snake will eat P/K, then freeze one or two and next time thaw those out and see if your snake will take them. Make sure you thaw them out slowly (do NOT put in the microwave.. trust me.. LOL), and get them pretty warm, especially around the head. I use a hairdryer. Most of my snakes prefer when I make the rat "walk" past their hides. Then they just come out the opening of the hide and strike, then drag it back inside with them. I think it makes them feel more secure. But it'd be a waste to buy a bunch of frozen rats only to find out that your snake won't eat them.

If Big Cheese is still out, try RodentPro. I buy from them online and their shopping cart tells you how much space is left in the box so you can maximize your order for the shipping you pay.

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I'm definately going to try and find one local before I buy bulk.

To me freshly killing is just as bad as live. I may feel worse putting it to sleep versus giving it a "fighting" chance.

I've read the horror stories of stomaches exploding and such with improper heating techniques and I certainly don't want that to happen. I also saw a video of a breeder here feeding F/T to his snakes. He'd hold them in the tongs and wiggle them around and after the snake coiled around it, he'd shake it a little bit more to simulate a struggle. I think I'll do it that way assuming he'll actually eat them.

I've checked RodentPro and for me maximizing the shipping box is not the best way to go with one snake. I could fit 160 small rats in one box which would be 3-1/2 to 7 years worth of food. I've read that you shouldn't keep them stored for more than six months so if he continues to eat one every two weeks that's less than 15 rats but I think I will start offering him one per week. If you thaw one out and offer it but he doesn't want it, can you refreeze it? Or is it better to toss it?

There's one obvious solution to this problem I may have with ordering food in bulk... Get more snakes. :rofl:

Ok I missed a lot of good posts I want to comment on a few.

"Put the mouse on the ground and it becomes a pest."

Thats one of the simplest explanations of the situation I have seen. I am definitely going to use that.

"As I get older I become more Vegetarian"

Me too. Keep in mind I am still pretty far off but I get more and more so every year. My personal philosophy is to try and eat locally grown animals. I feel much better about eating a cow that I know was cared for properly. My girlfriend and I buy 1/4 of a cow and 1/2 of a pig every year. Its expensive up front but much cheaper in the long run. The meat is leaner than most of what you will find in a store and the animals were treated well.

This brings me to my biggest reason for not feeding F/T. My problem is not actually with feeding F/T but with buying them online. Unless you have visited the facilities of the company you buy from you don't know that the animals are cared for properly. For me raising my own rodents is the most humane option. Many people feel that its cruel to raise them only to be fed off, but these people usually say so while eating a hamburger. I explain to them that I care for all of my animals the same. My fish, cats, BP, and even my rodents get the best quality food and enclosures that I can reasonably afford. My rodents have more than 5 times the floor space that lab animals have. On top of that because I only have the one BP at this time my rodents have more time between breeding and get to grow to 30 grams before I feed them off. When my BP was still eating F/T the adults I ordered were between 18 and 24 grams. I am not trying to maximize production or minimize costs at the expense of the animals and so I believe they have a better life. I am sure many have heard the phrase, "Think global, act local" when it comes to saving the planet. Well the same applies to caring for your snake. When you breed your own, or buy locally and responsibly you are doing the right thing, not just hiding yourself form the parts of life you would rather not think about. Its more honest.

I usually feed my ball in his tank because I don't want to pick him up afterward in fear of him regurgitating the mouse. That's why you shouldn't handle them for 48 hours after feeding.

...Welcome....interesting story...:)...you n your ball will have a great adventure ahead...good luck...Nice looking Ball!!!

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Ok I missed a lot of good posts I want to comment on a few.

"Put the mouse on the ground and it becomes a pest."

Thats one of the simplest explanations of the situation I have seen. I am definitely going to use that.

"As I get older I become more Vegetarian"

Me too. Keep in mind I am still pretty far off but I get more and more so every year. My personal philosophy is to try and eat locally grown animals. I feel much better about eating a cow that I know was cared for properly. My girlfriend and I buy 1/4 of a cow and 1/2 of a pig every year. Its expensive up front but much cheaper in the long run. The meat is leaner than most of what you will find in a store and the animals were treated well.

This brings me to my biggest reason for not feeding F/T. My problem is not actually with feeding F/T but with buying them online. Unless you have visited the facilities of the company you buy from you don't know that the animals are cared for properly. For me raising my own rodents is the most humane option. Many people feel that its cruel to raise them only to be fed off, but these people usually say so while eating a hamburger. I explain to them that I care for all of my animals the same. My fish, cats, BP, and even my rodents get the best quality food and enclosures that I can reasonably afford. My rodents have more than 5 times the floor space that lab animals have. On top of that because I only have the one BP at this time my rodents have more time between breeding and get to grow to 30 grams before I feed them off. When my BP was still eating F/T the adults I ordered were between 18 and 24 grams. I am not trying to maximize production or minimize costs at the expense of the animals and so I believe they have a better life. I am sure many have heard the phrase, "Think global, act local" when it comes to saving the planet. Well the same applies to caring for your snake. When you breed your own, or buy locally and responsibly you are doing the right thing, not just hiding yourself form the parts of life you would rather not think about. Its more honest.

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Hmm, why didn't I reply to your comment earlier?

That quote from my brother about making the rat a pest is priceless.

I think we're on the same page with the vegetarian thing. I have a long time friend, who was actually a scoutmaster in my boyscout troop, that has a weekend ranch a few hours north. He has a bunch of cattle there, breeds them minimally, and sends one to the butcher every 1-3 years. He always has too much meat for him and basically gives us as much as we ask for, though it's hard to ask when he is just giving it to you and not wanting anything in return.

When I visited this local guy who sells frozen rats we discussed the "not knowing how online dealers treat their animals". I am really thankful he existed. His setup was nice, basically what anyone in the rat breeders forum would suggest if you wanted to breed rats. He had a bin set up for euthanizing the rats and a tank of C02 instead of dry ice. I bought a live rat in case my python wouldn't take F/T, but he did and now I have a pet rat that is a complete chatterbox which leads me to believe he wasn't ever treated badly. I may want to breed my own, but I think I will need A LOT more snakes to want to do that.

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Originally Posted by CRAZY

I usually feed my ball in his tank because I don't want to pick him up afterward in fear of him regurgitating the mouse. That's why you shouldn't handle them for 48 hours after feeding.

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The first time I fed him I did what the previous owners did. After I made this post and basically everyone who had an opinion said feed him in his enclosure, I did that on the second feeding.

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Originally Posted by Flawless

...Welcome....interesting story...:)...you n your ball will have a great adventure ahead...good luck...Nice looking Ball!!!

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Thanks. I'm looking foward to the adventure, so far he is a great teammate.