Why We Are Idiots For Using Kingsnake.com To Price Our Animals

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

Colin I agree with your points but untill Kingsnake has a competive site with similar industry recognition, people will continue to give it this monoply like status it has now and allow it to dictate the market like Wall St.

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I know, why don't we have a cap on kingsnake.com executives' compensation and after that we can have a bailout for it since it's so big it's "Too big to fail" :salute:



And the competitor site is called Fauna Classifieds.

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Originally Posted by pvdgod

I know, why don't we have a cap on kingsnake.com executives' compensation and after that we can have a bailout for it since it's so big it's "Too big to fail" :salute:



And the competitor site is called Fauna Classifieds.

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Haha, that's funny. Maybe if Jeffs fancy new race car doesn't work out like he's planned he can get an automotive industry bailout? :rolleyes:

Oh and Fauna has just as many lowball ads as Kingsnake does. Sometimes even lower.

I agree with all said. I dont breed but at this rate everyones collection will drop in value.(But value is not my passion of course.)
I"m not sure i would buy a high dollar bp(sight unseen) from KS unless it was someone i recognized.
I worked with big breeders at shows and they walk around,check prices and adjust accordingly. My brother (who breeds Beardies) said this BP thing is just getting too big. His quote was "Every other table is Ball Pythons" " you could have a "just ball pythons" show.

If there are this many people looking for BPs and there multiple times the supply, those sellers who rely on the money will have to "underprice" the next guy and the chain is started.
Harley davidson had years of a waiting list because they couldnt keep up with demand. Now they're drastically reducing prices .
I really believe its 1st supply/demand and 2nd economy.

what nobody seems to mention though is quality. Just because some guy was able to hatch out a super pastel in his basement and puts it up on KS for 400 bucks doesnt mean its anything close to one that Graziani or VPI would sell for 1000. Same way you can find a beat up Camaro on Ebay for 1000 bucks or you can buy a mint one for 15k, etc. It's a free country and the free market always weeds out inferior products in the long run. Of course if you use one site or classifieds to base your prices on you are not getting the full picture of the overall market.

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Originally Posted by pvdgod

what nobody seems to mention though is quality. Just because some guy was able to hatch out a super pastel in his basement and puts it up on KS for 400 bucks doesnt mean its anything close to one that Graziani or VPI would sell for 1000. Same way you can find a beat up Camaro on Ebay for 1000 bucks or you can buy a mint one for 15k, etc. It's a free country and the free market always weeds out inferior products in the long run. Of course if you use one site or classifieds to base your prices on you are not getting the full picture of the overall market.

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I agree with this. People will always pay for quality. I think the car example is great. Sure I can find a ton of $75 pastels, but most of them are already browning out and fading color, even as hatchlings and have dull colors. In a year or two, those won't look much different than normals.

I do think KS negatively affects the market, however, i do think the market was over inflated to begin with. Plus with more people breeding means there is going to be more stock, which means prices will fall. I do think that to some extent this causes a deflationary effect in which people hold out on buying waiting for the price to fall. Thus when animals aren't moving, one lowers the prices, and the cycle continues.

But prices will fall, and they'll continue to fall even w/o KS. Its just a fact of life. We can sit around and complain about it and cry over spilt milk, or we can just adapt, and focus on producing the highest quality animals and to plan long run taking into account falling prices.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Haha, that's funny. Maybe if Jeffs fancy new race car doesn't work out like he's planned he can get an automotive industry bailout? :rolleyes:

Oh and Fauna has just as many lowball ads as Kingsnake does. Sometimes even lower.

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why is it the auto industry (when actually only 2 car companies got money) is the butt end of the bail out jokes when the money they got wasnt anything compared to the money the finacial district got?

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Originally Posted by Blue Apple Herps

what nobody seems to mention though is quality. Just because some guy was able to hatch out a super pastel in his basement and puts it up on KS for 400 bucks doesnt mean its anything close to one that Graziani or VPI would sell for 1000. Same way you can find a beat up Camaro on Ebay for 1000 bucks or you can buy a mint one for 15k, etc. It's a free country and the free market always weeds out inferior products in the long run. Of course if you use one site or classifieds to base your prices on you are not getting the full picture of the overall market.

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Exactly. Quality will always command a better price. I've seen pastels for $85 males, $125 females. I've also seen some nice ones for $400 that I would buy any day over their cheaper, often ugly conterparts.

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Originally Posted by pvdgod

what nobody seems to mention though is quality.

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I always get a kick out of the "quality" argument.

As far as I know, the "big guys" don't destroy/sterilize the low quality animals they produce. They mark the price down some and then sell them with the full knowledge these animals are likely to be used by someone for breeding.


I have produced some beautiful ball pythons "in my basement", by the way. My collection size is based on space available (for both the snakes and feeders). I keep my collection the same size, but continue to increase the quality. I do this by selling as many snakes as I produce every season. For every hatchling I "hold back" or new snake purchased, one has to go.

If you feel my asking price is too low, you are welcome to buy them all from me and hold onto them until prices go back up to where you would want them to be. Good luck with that plan :)

It's supply vs. demand.

Great article, i love it.
The only thing i can say is that even though we all hate those "big" breeders for killing the prices for everyone else at the shows we also love getting that sweet sweet deal on a snake we've been lusting over for months if not years.
A friend of mine who is a pretty good size BP breeder told me this at the last NY expo. He said, "I hate selling against him but i love buying from him when i need something". If you've ever been to the NY Whiteplains expo you know who he was referring to.
I don't think the shows are that bad because not everyone has access to one, especially one where there are "Big" breeders with crazy low prices. kingsnake on the other hand is there for all to see and buy from and the idea of someone posting a fake add to drive the price down makes me sick to my stomach (and I sell cars for a living so i should be used to all this kinda stuff)

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Originally Posted by JayCee

I always get a kick out of the "quality" argument.

As far as I know, the "big guys" don't destroy/sterilize the low quality animals they produce. They mark the price down some and then sell them with the full knowledge these animals are likely to be used by someone for breeding.


I have produced some beautiful ball pythons "in my basement", by the way. My collection size is based on space available (for both the snakes and feeders). I keep my collection the same size, but continue to increase the quality. I do this by selling as many snakes as I produce every season. For every hatchling I "hold back" or new snake purchased, one has to go.

If you feel my asking price is too low, you are welcome to buy them all from me and hold onto them until prices go back up to where you would want them to be. Good luck with that plan :)

It's supply vs. demand.

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dont take it the wrong way, most of us on here myself included would be the "basement" guy, i was just making the point that you have to compare apples to apples. Any one of us could buy some of the "Big guys" primo stock and produce babies that are no less quality than they would themselves, however again, you get what you pay for. Also if not for kingsnake, where would the hobbyist breeder (like most of us) have a place to buy/sell snakes without all the money for a web presence, advertising, table at a show, etc?