Morals and ethics of snake as feeders (what do you do with your normal spin-off)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

I'd rather them be sold as feeders than have them frozen and thrown out, at least they go to something more worthy than a trash can that way. King Cobras need to eat too.

---

my sentiments exactly.

i typed out a lot more but i'll leave it at this: if there's any hobby that understands the value of the life of a feeder animal, it's ours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Sell them as food? Wtf! That is just not right! That makes me so angry on so many levels. We breed snakes because we love them and to sell them off so king cobras can eat them? I can't...I just cant! I am appalled!

---

Think about the hypocrisy here for a second......
What makes it any different than breeding rats for food for YOUR animals? How about breeding roaches to feed my tarantulas? Look at the meat market in your local grocery store, all animals bred for food.
Its a circle of life and the use of a death.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Sell them as food? Wtf! That is just not right! That makes me so angry on so many levels. We breed snakes because we love them and to sell them off so king cobras can eat them? I can't...I just cant! I am appalled!

---

Actually a lot of feeder snakes are sold as f/t. Usually they are given a last good-sized meal and then the snake's brain is quickly pithed to kill it instantly before it is frozen.

Decapitation is not a fast way to kill a snake and should not be used.

I wonder what BP taste like?....... :O:D

I know... I know...

Was to far. LOL.

This is a rough read...

circle of life i get and respect it and partake onviously.

Just hard to swallow when we all have them but because they are normal or not a crazy morph they are second class citizens.

As as others have said if they are used to feed and a purpose that to me is just part of all of us. But to be bagged and tossed seems like there are better alternatives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phillydubs

This is a rough read...

circle of life i get and respect it and partake onviously.

Just hard to swallow when we all have them but because they are normal or not a crazy morph they are second class citizens.

As as others have said if they are used to feed and a purpose that to me is just part of all of us. But to be bagged and tossed seems like there are better alternatives.

---

it is just because the markrt is flooded. These things can live 30 years and many, many people who buy a ball python decide it’s not for them after a year and try to get rid of it on craigslist. There are just so many normals that they become almost unwanted and very difficult to sell, so as a breeder sometimes it is hard to decide what to do to offload them quickly. it’s just the way it ends up being

To the ones that say its better to sell them super cheap or give them away, that is by far not a guarantee of a better live then a quick death and being fed off.

Again, I couldn't let my babies go as feeders or feed them off myself.

But, when the market is over flooded and you DO need feeder snakes, what is the logical thing to do? We also need feeder frogs and lizards, not to even mention the rodents. There are many people that adore their frogs and lizards.

In this hobby you have to be realistic. You decided to bring that animal to your house, you are responsible for it, it only has YOU to look after its needs. If it eats frogs or needs them for scenting until it can be converted, well, you better get over yourself and do whatever is needed. If it needs to eat other snakes, well, that is what you have to do. You can always try F/T first, this way someone else had to do the "deed". But sometimes you have to feed live. If nothing more, until you can begin the process to switch them over.

Some people like Kingsnakes. Some people own venomous snakes that feed on other snakes. What about the rare and gorgeous Eastern Indigo. Sure, some can be switched to rodents, but some cannot. Or not right away.

I much rather an animal went to good use such as that, then in the trash or neglected, dying a slow death of starvation and neglect. Because many will end up just that way. Sure, more expensive morphs and animals also end up neglected. But fact remains, the cheaper animals are often viewed as "throw away" pets. So selling and giving away those cheap normals does in no way guarantee them a good life. There are worse things then a quick death.

So again, I would try my best to find a good home. I would make sure to give setup instructions (or even sell a set, animal and setup, at cost) and be picky. But it is completely unrealistic to expect bigger breeders to do just that. They may as well pack up. It is also unfair to say that those bigger breeders should simply not exist if they cannot be bothered to find good homes and be extremely picky for each and every normal they produce. We simply wouldn't have a lot of breeders left. Without them we would still be having mostly sickly imports to choose from, with all the problems alongside.

Many normals are more beautiful then some morphs, in my opinion. Although beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Its not that they are viewed as non worthy. There are simply to many of them still, they are sold cheap and in some cases can't even be given away. That is the downside of the market explosion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zina10

To the ones that say its better to sell them super cheap or give them away, that is by far not a guarantee of a better live then a quick death and being fed off.

Again, I couldn't let my babies go as feeders or feed them off myself.

But, when the market is over flooded and you DO need feeder snakes, what is the logical thing to do? We also need feeder frogs and lizards, not to even mention the rodents. There are many people that adore their frogs and lizards.

In this hobby you have to be realistic. You decided to bring that animal to your house, you are responsible for it, it only has YOU to look after its needs. If it eats frogs or needs them for scenting until it can be converted, well, you better get over yourself and do whatever is needed. If it needs to eat other snakes, well, that is what you have to do. You can always try F/T first, this way someone else had to do the "deed". But sometimes you have to feed live. If nothing more, until you can begin the process to switch them over.

Some people like Kingsnakes. Some people own venomous snakes that feed on other snakes. What about the rare and gorgeous Eastern Indigo. Sure, some can be switched to rodents, but some cannot. Or not right away.

I much rather an animal went to good use such as that, then in the trash or neglected, dying a slow death of starvation and neglect. Because many will end up just that way. Sure, more expensive morphs and animals also end up neglected. But fact remains, the cheaper animals are often viewed as "throw away" pets. So selling and giving away those cheap normals does in no way guarantee them a good life. There are worse things then a quick death.

So again, I would try my best to find a good home. I would make sure to give setup instructions (or even sell a set, animal and setup, at cost) and be picky. But it is completely unrealistic to expect bigger breeders to do just that. They may as well pack up. It is also unfair to say that those bigger breeders should simply not exist if they cannot be bothered to find good homes and be extremely picky for each and every normal they produce. We simply wouldn't have a lot of breeders left. Without them we would still be having mostly sickly imports to choose from, with all the problems alongside.

Many normals are more beautiful then some morphs, in my opinion. Although beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Its not that they are viewed as non worthy. There are simply to many of them still, they are sold cheap and in some cases can't even be given away. That is the downside of the market explosion.

---

I had a reticulated python breeder tell me that he wished he could get the shelters dogs and cats that were going to be put down and let him kill them in a way that is humane and safe for his snakes to eat. I say why not? They are going to die anyway. Would be practical and efficient use of a doomed animal. Not sure I could do it myself though but you do have some good points.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyrivers

I had a reticulated python breeder tell me that he wished he could get the shelters dogs and cats that were going to be put down and let him kill them in a way that is humane and safe for his snakes to eat. I say why not? They are going to die anyway. Would be practical and efficient use of a doomed animal. Not sure I could do it myself though but you do have some good points.

---

Honestly, I wouldn't want a former pet such as a dog or cat as food for my snakes. Morals aside, you never know just how many medications those animals have been on in their life time. Some of those medications are still in their system and makes them unsafe for consumption, even if they weren't chemically put down.

Its the same with horses. I would NEVER eat horse meat unless it was from a horse that was raised for slaughter. Its not just that I love horses, but I know what goes into a horse on regular basis. Horse people are crazy when it comes to going above and beyond to make their animal comfortable. There are many drugs and pesticides given regularly to any horse. Not to mention the many meds and shots they are on, for various problems and issues.

Some of those do not break down quickly. And trust me, you don't want those in your system..

While I agree it would be better use then thrown in the trash, that probably would be a slippery slope. Many people would not believe those animals were killed humanely. There would be an uproar, because dogs and cats are viewed as highly intelligent and affectionate companion animals, at least in our country. As is, the people collecting free kittens and puppies to feed them to their snake, are throwing a bad light on the rest of us reptile keepers. Esp. when they go around promising to give those animals good loving homes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyrivers

I had a reticulated python breeder tell me that he wished he could get the shelters dogs and cats that were going to be put down and let him kill them in a way that is humane and safe for his snakes to eat. I say why not? They are going to die anyway. Would be practical and efficient use of a doomed animal. Not sure I could do it myself though but you do have some good points.

---

Now that would be disastrous for our hobby. It would spread like wildfire through social media.