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Are those snakes just laying in water/urine??? Open sided racks in an unfinished basement with that little bit of heat tape and a whole lot of moisture... seems like a breeding ground for RI's to me.

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Originally Posted by Choreboy

Are those snakes just laying in water/urine??? Open sided racks in an unfinished basement with that little bit of heat tape and a whole lot of moisture... seems like a breeding ground for RI's to me.

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You got it. The basement *appears* to be completely unfinished- there is plastic hanging up in several other pictures. Looks like the pair is laying in just water but still- let's give all our snakes RI!! :rage:

Alright, I would understand if maybe one of two bins had some moisture built up in the tub...a water bowl spills, they poop, they pee....then when you see it, you clean it. But for EVERY single bin to look soaked?!?? Come on now! Why would they think it was a good idea to post pictures of their soaked bins and the poor snakes laying in a puddle of water??

This response from Avi really upset me. Yes I know it was to be a joke and sarcastic, but when you are under as much scrutiny from as many different parties as they are, WHY in the WORLD would you say something like this!?/

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...62198471_n.jpg

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Originally Posted by lilscrydvl

This response from Avi really upset me. Yes I know it was to be a joke and sarcastic, but when you are under as much scrutiny from as many different parties as they are, WHY in the WORLD would you say something like this!?/

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...62198471_n.jpg

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Because he doesn't have a brain, just like his other posts... *sigh*
Half of his response seems correct though.... They are living in a gross dark basement..

You know folks....there are PLENTY of real red flags to worry about without having to invent any. All the constant nit picking and assumptions about certain future failure as if were already fact makes everyone involved sound petty, vindictive, and mob-ish. Is this a genuine concern? Or is it a witch-hunt that's become too much fun to let go of?

We've all seen pictures of breeding ball pythons...posted by people we DO trust to take good care of their snakes...and those breeding bins are flat out nasty. Breeding ball pythons are very messy and it's standard practice to not bother them until they're done.

I also know plenty of people who take perfectly good care of their snakes that have less than optimal "facilities" to do it in. Basements that aren't finished. Home made racks. None of that says anything about the character of the person taking care of those animals. There are plenty of OTHER things you can look to to judge character, so why make us all look bad by picking on things that DON'T matter?

Getting bent out of shape because someone said something a bit snarky after what must have been a very long day of constant stress...really? The man is human. Things aren't going the way he'd expected them to. He's being attacked constantly from all directions. And whether or not you believe anything he says, he is at least handling it with some aplomb. So no...a moment of sarcasm is not something worth getting upset about, I don't believe.

Neither is mentioning BP.net. Just because he referred to us in some manner doesn't mean he's attacking us. (Not that I saw, anyhow. If I missed something major, maybe someone will point it out.)

And a host of other things. I am NOT defending these two. I see plenty that makes my eyebrows wing up and my head to shake in dismay. But I see no worth in constantly harping on things already talked about ad nauseum, nor in going on treasure hunts for things to pick on that really have no relevance in the grand scheme of things.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Getting bent out of shape because someone said something a bit snarky after what must have been a very long day of constant stress...really? The man is human. Things aren't going the way he'd expected them to. He's being attacked constantly from all directions. And whether or not you believe anything he says, he is at least handling it with some aplomb. So no...a moment of sarcasm is not something worth getting upset about, I don't believe.

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Let me just clarify something about this paragraph. I am NOT feeling sorry for them that things haven't gone as they expected. All their troubles, they brought on themselves. No pity from me, whatsoever. I'm just pointing out that the singled out sarcastic statement made at a moment of intense stress is not something worth judging character on.

In the last pic the tubs might be wet from spraying them down to try to get them to breed? You also might not see the heat tape if the tub is pulled out since the heat tape should be all the way in the back. These are only guesses on my part though and since Avi only reads this thread and don't respond any more we won't know their side of it....

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Originally Posted by Boanerges

In the last pic the tubs might be wet from spraying them down to try to get them to breed? You also might not see the heat tape if the tub is pulled out since the heat tape should be all the way in the back. These are only guesses on my part though and since Avi only reads this thread and don't respond any more we won't know their side of it....

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id just about agree with you, but take a closer look at the hatchling rack. you can count how many snakes are in them by counting the ones with condensation in their tubs. but who knows,,,, maby they all got misted minuets before:confused:
spooky

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Originally Posted by JLC

You know folks....there are PLENTY of real red flags to worry about without having to invent any. All the constant nit picking and assumptions about certain future failure as if were already fact makes everyone involved sound petty, vindictive, and mob-ish. Is this a genuine concern? Or is it a witch-hunt that's become too much fun to let go of?

We've all seen pictures of breeding ball pythons...posted by people we DO trust to take good care of their snakes...and those breeding bins are flat out nasty. Breeding ball pythons are very messy and it's standard practice to not bother them until they're done.

I also know plenty of people who take perfectly good care of their snakes that have less than optimal "facilities" to do it in. Basements that aren't finished. Home made racks. None of that says anything about the character of the person taking care of those animals. There are plenty of OTHER things you can look to to judge character, so why make us all look bad by picking on things that DON'T matter?

Getting bent out of shape because someone said something a bit snarky after what must have been a very long day of constant stress...really? The man is human. Things aren't going the way he'd expected them to. He's being attacked constantly from all directions. And whether or not you believe anything he says, he is at least handling it with some aplomb. So no...a moment of sarcasm is not something worth getting upset about, I don't believe.

Neither is mentioning BP.net. Just because he referred to us in some manner doesn't mean he's attacking us. (Not that I saw, anyhow. If I missed something major, maybe someone will point it out.)

And a host of other things. I am NOT defending these two. I see plenty that makes my eyebrows wing up and my head to shake in dismay. But I see no worth in constantly harping on things already talked about ad nauseum, nor in going on treasure hunts for things to pick on that really have no relevance in the grand scheme of things.

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Judy:
Personally speaking, I would not care if the basement was unfinished. I know many who keep reptiles in garages/basements/etc. My concern though is how is the room heated. Throughout this entire situation, my hope was to attempt to educate them on proper husbandry. I agree that it isn't fair to nitpick over someone's room/facility/etc. Regarding the sarcastic comment, I totally understand that sarcasm is a great stress reliever. I'm one of the most sarcastic people I know and in fact, find myself backpeddling quite often because someone does not understand when I am being sarcastic. My frustration with that one statement though comes from the fact that, given the situation they are in, it was not the best choice of words at all. There is a time and a place for sarcasm, and given the fact that the thread was concerning the care of the animals, to come out and make a comment like that really got to me. Perhaps I overreacted, perhaps not. I said not one thing to him regarding the comment though (if you read the thread) and just let it go. The whole reason I posted it here was to basically vent frustrations out over it. I think we all can agree that anyone who would make a comment like that regarding any animal would cause us to raise our eyebrows at least.

I'm not here to attack anyone. Do I think the overall concept is a "good idea"? No. Do I LIKE what it could do for the hobby/industry? No.

My immediate concern though is the health of those animals. That is all. The rest of the stuff (is it legal/what is going to do/etc) is all secondary to me. I've been in their shoes- attempting to start a business without being properly prepared. I know what it is like to be completely overwhelmed and watch your hard work come crashing down in front of your eyes. Thankfully for me it was cakes and truffles. These are animals that we are all passionate about in our hobby.

I just wish that they would take the communities advice/suggestions/etc.