Big News Coming Tomorrow!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kodieh

There in lies my query though, we don't exploit traits that arent visually appealing. Meaning that these problems these morphs have are defecs associated with morphological defects, and not likely to be stand alone. They're tied, is what I'm getting at.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

---

So what your getting at is that its like spider, it cant be bred out, no change in temp or otherwise will fix it, its just part of that morph, regardless of what is going on genetically to cause the issue?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eatgoodfood

So what your getting at is that its like spider, it cant be bred out, no change in temp or otherwise will fix it, its just part of that morph, regardless of what is going on genetically to cause the issue?

---

Yes, that's exactly it. Though the wobble and egg problems are not a morph like hypo or anything, like you tried to equate them to in the begin.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kodieh

There in lies my query though, we don't exploit traits that arent visually appealing. Meaning that these problems these morphs have are defecs associated with morphological defects, and not likely to be stand alone. They're tied, is what I'm getting at.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

---

I would have to believe they are tied to one another. For example the spider gene will always, to some capacity, effect the snake on a neurological level.
However, the level of expression will vary. Some spiders wobble like crazy, while others are reasonably normal but have the odd quirk or tick. The issue is nevertheless there.

So I guess my point is that IF the desert gene is directly tied to the ability of females producing viable clutches without complication (which is possible), that some females may still be able to produce based on that reproductive issue having a much lower expression in the snake.

At the end of the day it is all speculation until scientifically proven one way or the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kodieh

Yes, that's exactly it. Though the wobble and egg problems are not a morph like hypo or anything, like you tried to equate them to in the begin.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

---

Lol, im pretty sure were just arguing semantics, Im just defining morph differently than you, but were on the same page.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eatgoodfood

Lol, im pretty sure were just arguing semantics, Im just defining morph differently than you, but were on the same page.

---

Yep, I realized that right away which is why I changed how we were referring to it ;)

i always thought it strange that as a community, ball pythons folks decided desert females infertile. i understand that up till this point, 100% of breeding attempts failed - but hear me out...

where did stan's desert come from ? where did pete's come from ? some past or present wild and free snakes out there created them. are we to believe in the wilds of ghana only male desert ball pythons exist / existed ?

to create a desert ball python, you need the desert gene. no different than a pastel or a spider. you cannot use non-desert gene snakes to create a desert offspring. the same logic follows for pastels, spiders, etc.

i suppose an argument could be made that, sure desert clutches are made, but in the wilds of africa, the females go about their business and die of egg binding or old age having never created offspring and the males crawl around fertilizing non-desert local gals. but i find that a really diluted argument - somewhere in africa, female deserts that lay viable clutches either exist, or existed. these original animals came from somewhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mike41793

I also am having trouble seeing desert in the snake that Family Reptiles posted. I'll ask again, where was the desert that Family Reptiles has, purchased from?

---

For what it's worth I do not believe the female posted on eggs by Family Reptiles is a Desert either.

The colour and cleanliness of the pattern isn't bright or clean enough, there are too many alien heads, there is no white rising up from the belly to meet the pattern and the eye stripes should be wider. I know that she has just laid, is unlikely to have eaten for months and will not be looking at her best but I still see no sign of Desert in that animal at all.

This is a perfect example showing all the points I mention on an adult female Desert at 1900g. I hope everyone, even those with no experience whatsoever, can see the difference.

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/...920g_11-10.jpg

The Citrus Pastel shown by the original poster on eggs looks very, very much like a Citrus Desert and I could completely understand anybody making the mistake of selling it as such but as above I do not believe that it carries the Desert gene. The deciding factor being the faint speckling of darker pattern along the back of the animal as a hatchling, which Desert completely wipes out leaving them perfectly clean until they start putting on some size. A great post has already been made in this thread pointing out the key differences and 'markers' for it not carrying the Desert gene and I have nothing more to add to that. It is undoubtedly a beautiful animal and one of the most exceptional Pastels of any line that I have seen but that's what Citrus Pastels are famous for, being at the top end of the spectrum.

Obviously the day will come when these eggs hatch, ( there's no reason why they shouldn't) and there may be little baby Deserts in either clutch proving me wrong and that's absolutely fine. I will stand corrected and gladly admit it. But today with the information provided thus far, it is my belief that a Desert female is yet to lay a fertile clutch of eggs. Which is a huge shame as it's incredibly beautiful morph both on its own and in many, many combos.

i think it's good to remain skeptical till these clutches hatch. i have no opinion on the citrus pastel desert as that is such a hard call - my experience with my own deserts, is the occasional snake can have quite a few alien heads - mostly, they are very clean offspring, but you can hatch out ones that look like this gal below, who in this pic is just under 400 grams. i do wish the eye stripe was wider on family reptiles' animal.
http://market.kingsnake.com/image/1405455.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paulbuckley

i think it's good to remain skeptical till these clutches hatch. i have no opinion on the citrus pastel desert as that is such a hard call - my experience with my own deserts, is the occasional snake can have quite a few alien heads - mostly, they are very clean offspring, but you can hatch out ones that look like this gal below, who in this pic is just under 400 grams. i do wish the eye stripe was wider on family reptiles' animal.
http://market.kingsnake.com/image/1405455.jpg

---

I have to agree on the eye stripe comment...But..I beleive Family reptiles have posted in good faith along with the OP..We will see.

Okay here is a comparison!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Family Reptiles

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...rt_on_eggs.jpg

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tomrhargreaves

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/...920g_11-10.jpg.

---

Here's mine.(Stan's line) She's just under 1600gm,and just shed.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...sertfemale.jpg