Culling Healthy Animals

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Actually, he was TRYING to pass it off as noble, but lacking honor, honesty and integrity, he failed. Miserably.

You notice he hasn't been back since he got his fanny whacked a couple of days ago.

The guy's a turd, through and through and he didn't fool ANYONE.

Except maybe himself, and really, how hard is it to fool a stupid person?

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wow lol, this post is a sick BURN

i had to add it to my notepad of pwned.

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Originally Posted by p3titexburial

Math was just the first thing that came to mind but not the best example.

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thats ALL i was saying :gj:

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Originally Posted by p3titexburial

But to go into a "I'm right" "no I'm right" argument gets nobody anywhere. I just thought it might be important to remember that.

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the "im right" "no im right" would be a debate, which the OP invited:

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Originally Posted by ShawnC

Let me first explain that I am not trying to start any fights, but I am trying to get some open, and honest debate going on a topic that I feel is long overdue in our Hobby.

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I guess I meant that he was trying to convince everyone that he was being noble or responsible. I have seen people doing this sort of thing for many years with fish, but it shocked and disgusted me a little more with the hybrid pythons.
I understand the curiosity in wanting to know what happens when pairing certain animals, but when you create those animals you are responsible for them.
I also find it interesting that he waited sooooo long to mention that he was hybridizing animals. I just think maybe he should have been a little more upfront and honest about the whole situation. It seems there were a few facts left out.

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Originally Posted by p3titexburial

Yeah, that and I'm not particularly sure whether he's joking so it's better not to take offense to something that could easily be misinterpreted. There's no tone in posts ^^;;.

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The fact that he's repeated his belief that low valued animals will be neglected in a pet home, and suffer a fate far worse than being culled, many times throughout this thread would lead to the logical conclusion that he was not joking.

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I'm not saying we stand by and do nothing when something violates our principles, but after you've said everything you could and the other person still chooses to go their way, it may be seen as hypocritical if you try to force them to see things your way--to imply their intelligence, their ethics, morals, and general attitude as a human being subpar to your own based on one idea they have.

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And has he not done the same thing?

Petco sells or has sold normal color phase ball pythons for $29.99. It will cost more to house the snake properly than the cost of the snake. I don't think some first time snake keepers realize this. It's cool and I can afford that low price. Not making sense: how about when they sell ball pythons for $19.99. Will all of those "cheap" snakes get proper care? Most people on this forum have seen normals going for $10 at expos. Do they get proper care? We hope so.
Interesting thread.

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Originally Posted by Jason Bowden

Petco sells or has sold normal color phase ball pythons for $29.99. It will cost more to house the snake properly than the cost of the snake. I don't think some first time snake keepers realize this. It's cool and I can afford that low price. Not making sense: how about when they sell ball pythons for $19.99. Will all of those "cheap" snakes get proper care? Most people on this forum have seen normals going for $10 at expos. Do they get proper care? We hope so.
Interesting thread.

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I know people that have cats that were free or $15 that will spend $30 for a cat sweater and a $100 for an automated litter box....just sayin.
I'm sure most of those people buying those $29.99 normals are also being sold tons of overpriced husbandry items right off the bat anyway.

Exactly--the cost of the animal is irrelevent, it's about peoples' attitudes toward that animal. The only way to fix that is education.

PetCo may sell baby ball pythons that low somewhere, or perhaps on sale, but locally they are at least $60 right now.
A decent setup is more like $120. PetCo will certainly try to sell them one that costs more than that. I'm not saying they're good guys, they tend to forget important things like TEMPERATURE CONTROLLERS, but it's still up to a prospective pet owner to read up on what is needed.

By the way, there is no logical reason to be ok with treating fish cruelly, and not ok with treating reptiles cruelly. The primary difference between them is lungs versus gills, not mental capacity. Fish are definitely getting the short end of the stick in life.

Yeah.....fish get treated pretty badly. I wish I could change it, and I try the best I can to do so by trying to properly educate people. It is a loss 90% of the time. People don't learn until they flush a few fish.
My favorite fish is a hybrid, he is 9 inches long, and likes attention. Nothing short of sticking his head up out of the water for a pat on his head. He makes a great fish ambassador, every time people come over and get to pet or interact with him, it leaves a lasting impression.
I think the reptile world has it ten times as hard. For every ten good guys, it seems like there is one bad or irresponsible one that ruins it for them. I guess that means that we all just have to try twice as hard to be positive examples.
As far as the OP is concerned, there are far better ways to hybridize his animals and still get what he wants. I believe it was mentioned in another post that these "mutts" or "ugly animals" could be micro chipped. Or maybe he could just do a better job of screening his potential customers. I think if he is going through the hassle of breeding these animals that he should at least have enough respect to find them a proper home if he can not provide it for them.
Once again, they are his animals, he has the right to do with them as he sees fit. I just don't see why there can't be some way to do this better for the sake of the animals.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

The fact that he's repeated his belief that low valued animals will be neglected in a pet home, and suffer a fate far worse than being culled, many times throughout this thread would lead to the logical conclusion that he was not joking.




And has he not done the same thing?

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Woah, I was referring to H00blah's post after I was told "good luck with that." since it could be taken both ways.

I'm pretty sure the OP's not joking.

Ah, alright, I see where everyone's going now--it's not more so his actions that's unreasonable but his reasons which can't be tolerated. I was looking more towards why his actions were so repulsive when there are acceptable examples all over the world. Gotcha.

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Originally Posted by p3titexburial

Ah, alright, I see where everyone's going now--it's not more so his actions that's unreasonable but his reasons which can't be tolerated. I was looking more towards why his actions were so repulsive when there are acceptable examples all over the world. Gotcha.

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Exactly. He acquired the animals to feed off his un-desireable snakes to when he made the decision to "save" them from what he considers a far worse fate (a pet home). It wasn't a matter of creating these animals to be feeders, he acquired other animals in order to dispose of his undesireable offspring.

However, I think after not receiving much support on his own forum for this same idea, he then decided to justify his reasons for feeding off the "toxic byproduct" of his hybrid breeding, by claiming they would be neglected and abused as pets, therefore, becoming feeders was a far better fate for them.

But then he flips from the well-being of the animal to wanting to keep them out of the breeding pool and reducing the "footprint" of these unfortunate "byproducts" of his breedings. However, as many people asked him on his own forum, and I might have missed him answering - if his reasons behind the culling are really so "noble and honorable" as he wants us to believe, why doesn't he stop creating these hybrids and thus creating these "mutts" as he refers to them, and buy the animals he wants to add to his collection from other breeders?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

However, as many people asked him on his own forum, and I might have missed him answering - if his reasons behind the culling are really so "noble and honorable" as he wants us to believe, why doesn't he stop creating these hybrids and thus creating these "mutts" as he refers to them, and buy the animals he wants to add to his collection from other breeders?

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That would by necessity be supporting the creation of the same problem he's complaining about, as it would just mean that he was buying from someone who's doing the same thing. I agree with your overall stance (and once again, what you do with your "low-value" babies is AWESOME), but this question was logically inconsistent, as buying the hoped-for end result of his breedings rather than doing the breedings himself would only take the process out of his control, rather than actually stopping it. Many "mutts" would still be created in order for him to acquire an albino granite jag carpet python (3-subspecies double recessive co-dom, if that's what he's after).