Being harrassed by a reptile rescue

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Getting smart with the mods is a great way to become part of this wonderful community. I applaud you and request that you continue so that I may entertain my eyes a while longer.

Shipping with the USPS is ILLEGAL and talk of ILLEGAL practices is another great way to get your foot in the door. Shipping with SYR is no longer (until further notice) which leaves.... Oh yes.. FedEx as your only alternative for your rEsCuE :D

Have a wonderful and sanctified day! :gj:

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I'm stating truth. You don't know what you are talking about. USPS is authorized under Domestic Mail Manual 601 Co 22.3.10 and 9.3.3 as well as USPS Publication 52 Exhibit 526.6. Maybe you should read up before challenging someone who does this year end and year out?

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Shipping with the USPS is ILLEGAL and talk of ILLEGAL practices is another great way to get your foot in the door. Shipping with SYR is no longer (until further notice) which leaves.... Oh yes.. FedEx as your only alternative for your rEsCuE :D

Have a wonderful and sanctified day! :gj:

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Actually the animal is a lizard, so I believe it is legal to ship with USPS, and SYR is only prohibiting shipping of SNAKES, not lizards. So I believe shipping the lizards is okay through either service.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Mind if I ask you a question? Isn't running a rescue about helping the animals? How does pursuing an old debt of less than $20 help any animals? Don't you, as a rescue organization, have more important things to spend your time and energy on? :confused:

I'm quite sure you both have your own sides of the story...and pretty certain the truth lies somewhere in the middle, even if both sides are convinced they are infallible. But it's beyond me how this issue is worth so much hatred and hostility. The world is full of animals who would LOVE to have that passion directed at meeting their needs instead. :salute:

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Sure. It's about principle as much as helping animals. It's also about righting a smear she started in this forum which I have just been made aware of. Now I don't put a price on principle. Maybe others do.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Actually, you cannot continue to contact someone if she has requested you to stop. At that point you have to resort to LEGAL means to retrieve your money. It's a law about stopping bill collectors from harrassing people.

If she holds the animal illegally, then report her to the appropriate authorities. Harrassing someone, no matter how many animals you have rescued, is no way to help the animals or educate people.

What kind of "special rescue" boxes are you using to ship in?

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These are legal means I was using. Try telling a bill collector to stop calling you for collections action. It doesn't work that way. Telecommunications act does not apply in those circumstances. You can only tell people trying to sell you something to stop calling, not someone collecting a debt.

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Originally Posted by PhrynosomaTexas

Sure. It's about principle as much as helping animals. It's also about righting a smear she started in this forum which I have just been made aware of. Now I don't put a price on principle. Maybe others do.

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Well, there ya go. You've stated your side of things...which is about all you will be able to do here. The debt can't be collected through or at our site. She stated her case...you've stated yours. Seems like it should be even-scales as far as this site is concerned.

So the USPS ships live reptiles? If that is true, it's the scariest thing I've heard today. I would never ship/recieve anything live other than feeder insects via USPS. Nor would I trust anyone who does/did.

I believe you (the accused) need to make the OP aware that you have found her thread. She needs to be given the opportunity to answer.

No, you're wrong. Harrassment by a bill collector is illegal.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...dit/cre18.shtm

If she sends you a written letter, you can no longer contact her. In addition, you are NOT allowed to discuss debts with anyone(other than her, her spouse or her lawyer).
You are also required to send her a written letter describing the alledged debt within 5 days of contact.

If you want to get all legal on what is or is not the law. That's the laws.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

'collections' is pretty vague. I think it's probably BS. Tell him you're blocking him, that you consider your debts paid for having shipped the box, and that this is the end of it whether he likes it or not.

Tell him he's free to pursue 'collections', but won't be getting a penny from you, and that you have complete records of every e-mail he's sent you about the entire thing, which you will keep on hand to submit to authorities if necessary.

Since you did not ask for the insects, and you did not agree to pay for the insects, you do not owe him anything for them. That's the law. Nothing he threatens matters in the face of that.

I'd go complain on Fauna BOI too, so others can steer clear of someone who's obviously a bad egg in the 'rescue' scene. (I have to wonder about anyone in a rescue who would behave this way). They will ask you to post the e-mails and correspondences, of course, to prove your claim. It's for the best.

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Any wonder she never filed a BOI? She was sooooo upset about something that she could have just settled by paying up. I don't ship feeders to people for free. When she reneged on her commitment to surrender the animal to rescue, then she owes me for what she used for herself. I think that's fair, and that's the only reason she continued to have trouble about it.

Obviously a bad egg? You are bad mouthing someone you have had no dealings with and you don't know the facts. I'd say that puts you in some question about how you behave and judge situations you aren't privvy to the facts on. I guess all this gets a pass here though when you people are bad mouthing non-members?

Oh...and $9 is what she calculated she owed me after subtracting for ridiculous $15 charges. She owed more like over $20.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

No, you're wrong. Harrassment by a bill collector is illegal.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...dit/cre18.shtm

If she sends you a written letter, you can no longer contact her. In addition, you are NOT allowed to discuss debts with anyone(other than her, her spouse or her lawyer).
You are also required to send her a written letter describing the alledged debt within 5 days of contact.

If you want to get all legal on what is or is not the law. That's the laws.

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Well lets get legal, since I have actually studied law. First, she has not submitted a written letter...so everything else you said is MOOT! NEXT?

I am responding to accusations on a web forum. I can use relevant facts of the matter to defend myself, and I will. Fair enough for you?

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

So the USPS ships live reptiles? If that is true, it's the scariest thing I've heard today. I would never ship/recieve anything live other than feeder insects via USPS. Nor would I trust anyone who does/did.

I believe you (the accused) need to make the OP aware that you have found her thread. She needs to be given the opportunity to answer.

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Wow, actually learned something? Well I don't trust someone who didn't know enough about reptile shipping to know that, or do research before slamming someone who does so successfully for many years.

I have rescued well over 100 horned lizards by USPS express without ONE SINGLE FATALITY in transit. I'll stick to the way I do it, thank you very much.

Why don't you or one of the mods inform the OP. It's not my responsibility. She didn't offer the same courtesy before slamming me here.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

So the USPS ships live reptiles? If that is true, it's the scariest thing I've heard today. I would never ship/recieve anything live other than feeder insects via USPS. Nor would I trust anyone who does/did.

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No, not all reptiles. Only Lizards. Amphibians are also allowed to be shipped USPS. I might be mistaken, but I believe the reason is due to lobbying by the bait industry when the law was drafted.

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Originally Posted by PhrynosomaTexas

Oh...and $9 is what she calculated she owed me after subtracting for ridiculous $15 charges. She owed more like over $20.

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But you dont know for sure? You dont know what the exact amount is that you believe she owes you? You keep no records?

Had this been taken to the BOI it would have been stoppd long ago by mods due to the lack of information on both sides.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Well, there ya go. You've stated your side of things...which is about all you will be able to do here. The debt can't be collected through or at our site. She stated her case...you've stated yours. Seems like it should be even-scales as far as this site is concerned.

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I don't intend to collect through here, merely respond to the insults offered by your members toward someone they have no dealings with, and after obviously and continuing to take one side as law on this. My intention is to defend against the accusations offered by your site in hosting this thread, and then I am done.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

But you dont know for sure? You dont know what the exact amount is that you believe she owes you? You keep no records?

Had this been taken to the BOI it would have been stoppd long ago by mods due to the lack of information on both sides.

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Well, my intent is to defend myself in the smear fest that was hosted here. I have records, but it's easier to just add $9 to $15 right? I mean you can figure that out from my reply? It also occurred like a year ago, and I have moved on until I found this BS.

Well, this ain't BOI. If you like it so much, then tell he to start a thread over there.

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Originally Posted by PhrynosomaTexas

I don't intend to collect through here, merely respond to the insults offered by your members toward someone they have no dealings with, and after obviously and continuing to take one side as law on this. My intention is to defend against the accusations offered by your site in hosting this thread, and then I am done.

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Ok guys....see. If y'all will just be quiet and let him bask in the glory of his rightness, he'll be happy and go away. :yes: Seriously...he's not worth arguing with. Doing so will just continue the circus indefinitely.

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Originally Posted by PhrynosomaTexas

I don't intend to collect through here, merely respond to the insults offered by your members toward someone they have no dealings with, and after obviously and continuing to take one side as law on this. My intention is to defend against the accusations offered by your site in hosting this thread, and then I am done.

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Cool, I guess we are all set then:gj:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Ok guys....see. If y'all will just be quiet and let him bask in the glory of his rightness, he'll be happy and go away. :yes: Seriously...he's not worth arguing with. Doing so will just continue the circus indefinitely.

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Not worth arguing with? But it was worth you entertaining the OP bad mouthing someone without hard facts?

Bask in the glory of of his rightness? Doesn't surprise me that you aren't open to hearing an opposing side. Even the admin has a condescending tone toward someone who has done nothing but state the other side and defend himself. I didn't start this. I'd be happy if you just pulled the whole thread unless you intend to offer a fair forum on this.

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Originally Posted by PhrynosomaTexas

Not worth arguing with? But it was worth you entertaining the OP bad mouthing someone without hard facts?

Bask in the glory of of his rightness? Doesn't surprise me that you aren't open to hearing an opposing side. Even the admin has a condescending tone toward someone who has done nothing but state the other side and defend himself. I didn't start this. I'd be happy if you just pulled the whole thread unless you intend to offer a fair forum on this.

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It's not about being "open" to the other side. We simply just don't care. Its he said she said. Its $9 its $20. In the end, does it matter? Has our opinion of you changed since you started to "defend" yourself? No not really.

I'm happy to hear your side. You told it. I heard it. And it'll stay for anyone else who wants to read it. That's as fair as it gets. It's up to anyone reading this thread to judge for themselves who they think has the right of it. They may judge us for being harsh to you without your being aware of the thread. They may judge you for treating the rest of the world like morons because they don't know as much as you do. :confuzd:

What she really meant to say was...

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Originally Posted by JLC(somewhat)

*Fixed* Ok guys....see. If y'all will just be quiet and let him see how loved he really is, he'll be happy and go away to spread the love elsewhere. :yes: Seriously...Its not worth arguing about because he will win. Doing so will just continue the circus indefinitely. So lets all join hands and sing Kumbaya and give peace a chance! :community

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Hi,

I'm sorry.

But your stated goal of putting your side has been accomplished - which is, after all, what the OP did.

Sounds fair to me.

If you have hard facts go to the BOI - we have never hosted anything similar on this site.

Both sides are now viewable by anyone - we do not remove threads very often on here on the grounds you are responsible for what you type.

I'm sorry you feel the owners and staff of this site have been condecending in their communications with you - but please try to understand you are dragging up drama from almost 10 months ago that was happily drifting towards obscurity and would be again if you simply stopped posting in it.

I do have to say however you are hardly without blame in the attitude you have expressed towards three different members of staff in the short time you have been here.

We let you stay and we let you post to get your side of the story out. We do not have to do either of those things as this is a private site.

When you walk into someones house do you immediately pee on the rug and complain when the owners are less than jovial in return?

Seriously. Think about it. Or your time on this forum is likely to be brief.


dr del

Since you're also a lawyer now, having studied law and all that, in between basking in your all-consuming knowledge, you'd know that you haven't got any proof she ordered the product from you, nor that she agreed that if she changed her mind about shipping the lizard to you that she would then return the super special shipping box to you, or forward it to someone else.

You also didn't send that legal paper declaring the debt within 5 days of contacting her, and if you already knew all about the legalities, why would you state you could harrass her all you want because you weren't a sales person, you were a bill collector?

Talk to yourself some more about how you've saved 4 million lizards, single-handedly delivered a baby during a typhoon on a sinking boat, all while cradling hatching eggs with your teeth. Doesn't mean anyone owes you money, nor does it give you some right to harrass people into paying for something you admit you shipped for free.

I'll expect another response with some more "I'm the bestest ever" with a side order of "I can harrass whoever I want, because I think I'm owed for being the bestest ever".

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Originally Posted by PhrynosomaTexas

Wow, actually learned something? Well I don't trust someone who didn't know enough about reptile shipping to know that, or do research before slamming someone who does so successfully for many years.

I have rescued well over 100 horned lizards by USPS express without ONE SINGLE FATALITY in transit. I'll stick to the way I do it, thank you very much.

Why don't you or one of the mods inform the OP. It's not my responsibility. She didn't offer the same courtesy before slamming me here.

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Ok I am gonna say this is gonna stop. Saying anyone doesn't know a thing about reptiles because we don't ship USPS. Sir you are on a Ball Python forum, as per 1992 it has been against USPS's rules to ship any snake. So I think anyone that ships here would use Fedex as its the only shipping method we have as of yet. So after reading twice where you said to 2 members here that they shouldn't be owning reptiles because they don't know USPS ships retiles is a moot point. Please don't make that statement again.

Wow, not making many friends now, are we? :rofl: Your time mustn't be as valuable as you think it is if it's worth so much of it to pursue a measly $20 debt. The OP seems to have just been blowing off steam if anything, nobody seemed to see much real harm in anything that went on between you two, but I think you've made your character quite clear to all of us by now. And for the record, if you're trying to save face, it's not a very good idea to throw a tantrum every time somebody disagrees with you. You're really not impressing anybody. We get it. You're so smart, you're always right, no one knows anything but you, and you're clearly a very understanding, forgiving, easy-to-work with individual. :gj: Has this been worth all the time it's taken so far?

This thread is being locked, it will be re-opened in the event that either parties have something new to add dealing with the situation. Thank you!