what kind of BP is this? I am so confused...

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I'm one of those people that if your snake has never bitten it hasn't been held by me.

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:rofl:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I've snorted more soda up my nose being on the phone with Ed and him messing with the snakes and hearing curses being uttered, AFTER he baby talks the snake and goes "you're such a sweet snake aren't you? You love your daddy, don't you - you're not going to bite me are you?............expletive, expletive, expletive"

The best was when he brought me my first trio of ASF's to the Birmingham show and went "I don't know why Kara thinks these things are so mean, they're so sweet.....dammit!!!!! He just bit me on my finger!!!"

I laughed until I cried - and darn near peed my pants - funny stuff there!

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I LOL'D

Looks banded to me. Maybe, maybe not genetic, but deffinately a banded pattern.

I am not going to insult you like a bunch of others on here did but I do agree with everyone else in feeding in the enclosure. I feed all of mine in the enclosure, and have for years. I have had one feeding response bite, but it was my fault and while I was feeding.

On handeling him, I have a friend who has a ball python that is the same way. He has had her for years and she bites like a dang burm or retic. None of his other snakes are like that either. She will draw blood on anyone that tries to pick her up. Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do I guess.

Also thanks for all the input guys/gals! I really appreciate it.
andI know some of these pictures look "bad" but they aren't trust me....
I would never hurt any of my snakes. None of my snakes have ever been sick.
Quick question for any one who thought we were holding that bp in a "mean" or "silly" way...

how would you hold this snake??
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/PB060235.jpg

Getting bit is getting bit... It's unpleasant and I'd rather not get bit by anything with teeth...[/QUOTE]

That snake i would hold without any restrainment, and if it was going to bite, then i would PROPERLY hold it behind its head... But heres the catch... Theres a difference between a 10 foot 45 lbs burmese python and a 3 foot 1,000 Gram ball python...

Unreal.... people are just waisting my time and others by jiberjabing...... grow up.. we could all be freinds.... good luck:D

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Originally Posted by dapike1979

Unreal.... people are just waisting my time and others by jiberjabing...... grow up.. we could all be freinds.... good luck:D

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:gj: Agree'd

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That snake i would hold without any restrainment, and if it was going to bite, then i would PROPERLY hold it behind its head... But heres the catch... Theres a difference between a 10 foot 45 lbs burmese python and a 3 foot 1,000 Gram ball python...

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Yes but the point is getting bit... not the size of the snake.
If it has large teeth I would do what it takes to not get bit some people have their methods some people have others. On that particular snake on that particular moment I chose that method.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

i've snorted more soda up my nose being on the phone with ed and him messing with the snakes and hearing curses being uttered, after he baby talks the snake and goes "you're such a sweet snake aren't you? You love your daddy, don't you - you're not going to bite me are you?............expletive, expletive, expletive"

the best was when he brought me my first trio of asf's to the birmingham show and went "i don't know why kara thinks these things are so mean, they're so sweet.....dammit!!!!! He just bit me on my finger!!!"

i laughed until i cried - and darn near peed my pants - funny stuff there!

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lol

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Originally Posted by cornball252

:gj: Agree'd



Yes but the point is getting bit... not the size of the snake.
If it has large teeth I would do what it takes to not get bit some people have their methods some people have others. On that particular snake on that particular moment I chose that method.

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have you been bitten yet?

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Originally Posted by Denial

have you been bitten yet?

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Yes more times than I can remember. My last one they got me under the Cuticle of my middle and Index finger... I still stand by my opinion though I'd rather not be bit.

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Originally Posted by cornball252

I still stand by my opinion though I'd rather not be bit.

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So would I but thems the breaks.. You breed or keep snakes you get bit.. the only way to never get bit is to be totally hands off. And even then your not safe ask any venomous keeper.

I have about 50 snakes three of my balls and two redtails act hungry all the time, all of them shoot out fo their tubs ready to eat. What I do is touch them with my hook then I can pick them up. The moment I touch them they just stop you can see the change in their body, kinda like they relax. I reach in and pick them up, never been bit(knocking on wood). BTW on of the balls was a rescue, when I went to get him he was so hungry(the person was only feeding him 1 mouse every 2 weeks) he struck at anything that moved. Try that its worked for me.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

So would I but thems the breaks.. You breed or keep snakes you get bit.. the only way to never get bit is to be totally hands off. And even then your not safe ask any venomous keeper.

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I'm not saying i wouldn't get bit but rather I would do as much as I can to not get bit.

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Originally Posted by HerpKeeperVA

Ok, let me get this straight...
, and bites from a ball don't hurt, just so you know.

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I would like to point out to all of you that keep saying who cares about bites, bites don't hurt etc. It is still wise to not get bitten. ANY bite can get infected, even if treated correctly. Its always wise to avoid ANY injury. My co-workers niece got hospitalized from a cut she got when shaving her legs. She almost died from a blood born infection. I have cut my face with a razor many times. It doesn't hurt either, but I am going to try to avoid it. Things can happen.

Am I the only one who noticed the snake has granite markings? There's no clear shot of the back of its neck, though.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Am I the only one who noticed the snake has granite markings? There's no clear shot of the back of its neck, though.

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I will get some shots of his neck today. but for now i am going to get some more Koi I will be back in a bit.

-Ben

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Originally Posted by HerpKeeperVA

Further more, even though they are "just snakes" they do appreciate a nice warm, clean cage to eat in.

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Thank GOD Africa is full of these objects.

Later, Matt

Koi! I love koi! Can't wait to have my own house so I can have a koi pond! Pictures!

I have a pastel that has from day one been a horrible B******! He has his good days (like 2 a year haha), but most of the time, he's hissing and striking. I have had to use a hook on him several times (today actually) because he wouldn't let me come near him. Even if you do the light tap on the head, he hides his head for two seconds then is back out and ready to bite you in the face. He's horrible. But I love him. :)

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Am I the only one who noticed the snake has granite markings? There's no clear shot of the back of its neck, though.

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Just now looked through this thread for the first time, and that's the same thing I thought.

Question: Now I've heard alot on granites... and how there are non gentic grannys and gentic grannys is there any way to distiguish between the two ? Im bout to get some pictures

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

Thank GOD Africa is full of these objects.

Later, Matt

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LoL, right. I didn't mean that as in they choose to eat in a man made enclosure, but that it was a preferred alternative to a cold concrete floor. I should have worded it better, but Lortab isn't the best medication to think on.

Yeah, I was just being an ass ;)

Later, Matt

wow this is really interesting, but i will agree holding your snake like that will not help the agressiveness. what i do is tap the cage b4 i grab my baby so she wont be as baffled:weirdface. and try to find a box or something to feed your balls feeding them off the floor is unsanitary.

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Originally Posted by tank4102

wow this is really interesting, but i will agree holding your snake like that will not help the agressiveness. what i do is tap the cage b4 i grab my baby so she wont be as baffled:weirdface. and try to find a box or something to feed your balls feeding them off the floor is unsanitary.

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Yea its not about making him calmer... its about not being bit.

And the warm cement floor... not cold... is a little dirty from changing cages as I use peat moss since they started putting cedar in the cypress mulch blend....

Also to those who wanted some face pictures I have a few now that it is a nice day and not Cloudy and rainy.

Here are some. As you can tell when i am not restraining him we can hold him just fine.. Although he was still just as mad... this is where JLC's comment comes in..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/101_0380.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/101_0382.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/101_0385.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/101_0384.jpg


Let me know what you guys think and if you need different angles on him.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I'm one of those people that if your snake has never bitten it hasn't been held by me.

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LOL!!!!! OMG thats genious =D

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Originally Posted by cornball252

Again, not that im for "mistreating" my babies... but first, they are snakes... .

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I cannot believe someone would actually join THIS forum and actually say something like that....at least not without getting a non-positive response!!!

THATS JUST THE WEIRDEST PICS I EVER SEEN BALLS ON THE FLOOR EATING RATS ALL OVER THE PLACE,LOL! just strange

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

I cannot believe someone would actually join THIS forum and actually say something like that....at least not without getting a non-positive response!!!

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You lost me. Are you trying to imply that they are somehow not snakes? :confused:

Because that is literally all he said; "they are snakes."

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Originally Posted by JLC

I've been watching this thread closely and everyone participating in it. I will say that I was, at first, completely appalled at the photographs in the original post. I do find the idea of feeding snakes on a cold concrete floor to be unnecessary at the very least, and highly risky at worst. They do perfectly fine being fed in their own enclosures...unless, of course, they have to share that enclosure with another snake.

What I've noticed here in this thread is some (not all!) people making very broad assumptions based on a few isolated photographs...and then jumping on those assumptions as if they were hard-and-fast facts. I've also seen the OP respond to most of these accusations with relative calm and reason...something we rarely see in someone who is really as flippant with animal husbandry as he is being accused of.

I've been in the snake rooms of some of the top breeders in this country. I've seen extremely experienced and knowledgeable keepers handle difficult snakes. In either of these situations, it is SO easy to take a few photographs and display them out of context and cause others to make horrible assumptions based on nothing more than the evidence of those few pics. Rooms get dirty. Snakes poo and make big messes. Take a few pictures the day before cleaning day and you can make the most fastidious keeper look neglectful. Watch an experienced handler try to stretch a wriggling snake out for examination, and snap the picture just so...and you can make the most careful person look abusive.

Nothing wrong with asking questions or offering advice...but let's save the leaping-assumptions game for another time, shall we?

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wow that is the best thing i have ever seen typed on this forum. A lot of people on this forum need to step back and realize how much of a douchebag you really are. People come to this forum to learn and get knowledge. Instead of you being a Adult and giving your advice and being helpful, you prefer to throw out insults and say stuff just so your menions can give you thanks on your threads. Its time to grow up. Stop playing devils advocate. You expect people to be respectful towards you but yet you are just a complete jerk off towards them. All your doing is pushing people away from what a great forum this is.

This post isnt directed towards anyone in particular. Its just what i have observed the short time i have been on this forum

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Originally Posted by echs332000

wow that is the best thing i have ever seen typed on this forum. A lot of people on this forum need to step back and realize how much of a douchebag you really are. People come to this forum to learn and get knowledge. Instead of you being a Adult and giving your advice and being helpful, you prefer to throw out insults and say stuff just so your menions can give you thanks on your threads. Its time to grow up. Stop playing devils advocate. You expect people to be respectful towards you but yet you are just a complete jerk off towards them. All your doing is pushing people away from what a great forum this is.

This post isnt directed towards anyone in particular. Its just what i have observed the short time i have been on this forum

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Thank you very much. I totally agree that is all I have seen on here. I mean there are a bunch of helpful people but lay off the guy. Dang ! He was just asking a simple question and everyone just jumps on him like a bunch of wild animals :) :banana:



Lani~

There are always the ones that.... says their one or three BP's do better without the proper heat gradients... the ones who swear their BP gets depressed when living in a tub that is too small.. ones that sware their BP is obviously sad because it does not have a clear view to the outside world... Ones that claims their BP is sociable that it does not need any hids.... Ones that claim there snake gets depressed if it doesn't have a cage mate... Ones that have a BP that only eats one color rat... Ones that swears it's BP must be fed outside its enclosure, on the cold concrete floor to avoid a treacherous feeding response.... Ones that say for safety purposes an aggressive BP should be held in such a way that completely restricts its movement, squeezing its jaw bones forcing its mouth open.....


then their are the ones who know better. :hungry:

Good Day.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

There are always the ones that.... says their one or three BP's do better without the proper heat gradients... the ones who swear their BP gets depressed when living in a tub that is too small.. ones that sware their BP is obviously sad because it does not have a clear view to the outside world... Ones that claims their BP is sociable that it does not need any hids.... Ones that claim there snake gets depressed if it doesn't have a cage mate... Ones that have a BP that only eats one color rat... Ones that swears it's BP must be fed outside its enclosure, on the cold concrete floor to avoid a treacherous feeding response.... Ones that say for safety purposes an aggressive BP should be held in such a way that completely restricts its movement, squeezing its jaw bones forcing its mouth open.....


then their are the ones who know better. :hungry:

Good Day.

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Then their are ones who write a book to get a point across that has already been stated several times over. Once again I do my methods which work for me. you do yours. Keep your ignorance out of the thread I was not asking on how I should keep a snake I was asking if the snake had any type of "het marker"

Grow up and act like an adult...:salute:

Seriously, what is going on with the snakes on the floor with the rats. Thats so wrong it has to be right!

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Originally Posted by Woffy

Seriously, what is going on with the snakes on the floor with the rats. Thats so wrong it has to be right!

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Bwahaha seriously?? Read some of the thread I'm sure it is explained on every page... >_>:gj:

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Originally Posted by echs332000

wow that is the best thing i have ever seen typed on this forum. A lot of people on this forum need to step back and realize how much of a douchebag you really are. People come to this forum to learn and get knowledge. Instead of you being a Adult and giving your advice and being helpful, you prefer to throw out insults and say stuff just so your menions can give you thanks on your threads. Its time to grow up. Stop playing devils advocate. You expect people to be respectful towards you but yet you are just a complete jerk off towards them. All your doing is pushing people away from what a great forum this is.

This post isnt directed towards anyone in particular. Its just what i have observed the short time i have been on this forum

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Originally Posted by creativecorns

Thank you very much. I totally agree that is all I have seen on here. I mean there are a bunch of helpful people but lay off the guy. Dang ! He was just asking a simple question and everyone just jumps on him like a bunch of wild animals :) :banana:
Lani~

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While I appreciate your endorsement of what I wrote earlier, I have to step in again and say that this is SO NOT TRUE. Not to say that we don't have our share of folks who act like they know it all and their way of doing things is the only right way...or that their opinion is the only one that matters. But what would you expect in a group this size? We have literally hundreds of different people participating each and every day. Not all of them are naturally inclined to be nice and diplomatic. :rolleyes: Some folks feel compelled to speak their mind and don't care how others take it. :confuzd:

Should all the tremendous amount of GOOD that goes on here be negated and dismissed because a few people get upset when they see what LOOKS like neglect and abuse of animals? Or when folks get argumentative toward someone who comes looking for advice then dismisses it?

Have you seen how many rescued snakes have been brought back from the brink of death through the tremendous help of folks here? How many pet-store impulse purchases are transformed into ideal environments because of the people here willing to answer the same basic questions over and over again for each and every new person who comes looking for help? Have you seen the community here rally together around someone who has lost an animal or a loved one....or a home??? Did you not see the thousands of dollars raised on simple donations from every-day members here for one who's home was burned to the ground?

If all you...or anyone else sees....are the negative aspects of this site...then I dare to think that's all such a person really wants to see. It's so much easier to spot the negative and get an attitude about it...than it is to savor the good and appreciate it...even when the good outweighs the negative by vast magnitudes.

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Originally Posted by JLC

While I appreciate your endorsement of what I wrote earlier, I have to step in again and say that this is SO NOT TRUE. Not to say that we don't have our share of folks who act like they know it all and their way of doing things is the only right way...or that their opinion is the only one that matters. But what would you expect in a group this size? We have literally hundreds of different people participating each and every day. Not all of them are naturally inclined to be nice and diplomatic. :rolleyes: Some folks feel compelled to speak their mind and don't care how others take it. :confuzd:

Should all the tremendous amount of GOOD that goes on here be negated and dismissed because a few people get upset when they see what LOOKS like neglect and abuse of animals? Or when folks get argumentative toward someone who comes looking for advice then dismisses it?

Have you seen how many rescued snakes have been brought back from the brink of death through the tremendous help of folks here? How many pet-store impulse purchases are transformed into ideal environments because of the people here willing to answer the same basic questions over and over again for each and every new person who comes looking for help? Have you seen the community here rally together around someone who has lost an animal or a loved one....or a home??? Did you not see the thousands of dollars raised on simple donations from every-day members here for one who's home was burned to the ground?

If all you...or anyone else sees....are the negative aspects of this site...then I dare to think that's all such a person really wants to see. It's so much easier to spot the negative and get an attitude about it...than it is to savor the good and appreciate it...even when the good outweighs the negative by vast magnitudes.

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:bow::bow::bow:

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Originally Posted by JLC

While I appreciate your endorsement of what I wrote earlier, I have to step in again and say that this is SO NOT TRUE. Not to say that we don't have our share of folks who act like they know it all and their way of doing things is the only right way...or that their opinion is the only one that matters. But what would you expect in a group this size? We have literally hundreds of different people participating each and every day. Not all of them are naturally inclined to be nice and diplomatic. :rolleyes: Some folks feel compelled to speak their mind and don't care how others take it. :confuzd:

Should all the tremendous amount of GOOD that goes on here be negated and dismissed because a few people get upset when they see what LOOKS like neglect and abuse of animals? Or when folks get argumentative toward someone who comes looking for advice then dismisses it?

Have you seen how many rescued snakes have been brought back from the brink of death through the tremendous help of folks here? How many pet-store impulse purchases are transformed into ideal environments because of the people here willing to answer the same basic questions over and over again for each and every new person who comes looking for help? Have you seen the community here rally together around someone who has lost an animal or a loved one....or a home??? Did you not see the thousands of dollars raised on simple donations from every-day members here for one who's home was burned to the ground?

If all you...or anyone else sees....are the negative aspects of this site...then I dare to think that's all such a person really wants to see. It's so much easier to spot the negative and get an attitude about it...than it is to savor the good and appreciate it...even when the good outweighs the negative by vast magnitudes.

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while i do understand and agree with what you have said, you have to realize that its human nature to dwell on the bad things. No matter how good a persons post is, if he has something ignorant or disrespectful in their post, people are going to remember that portion of it. If people have a problem answering the same questions over and over, then why are they on a forum like this. People are quick to forget that they started at the bottom just like everyone else. They are quick to forget that at one point they didnt know a thing about snakes. SOME people on here expect people to be instant experts on keeping snakes.

I think the problem is this. A lot of people are bored out of their mind. They have no lives and all they do is sit on this forum and seek out a pissing match. I think SOME of you need to step back and be a little mature about things. If someone asks you a question and you jump on the defensive and start attacking them, then every bit of advice that you have given has been thrown out the window.

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Originally Posted by echs332000

while i do understand and agree with what you have said, you have to realize that its human nature to dwell on the bad things. No matter how good a persons post is, if he has something ignorant or disrespectful in their post, people are going to remember that portion of it. If people have a problem answering the same questions over and over, then why are they on a forum like this. People are quick to forget that they started at the bottom just like everyone else. They are quick to forget that at one point they didnt know a thing about snakes. SOME people on here expect people to be instant experts on keeping snakes.

I think the problem is this. A lot of people are bored out of their mind. They have no lives and all they do is sit on this forum and seek out a pissing match. I think SOME of you need to step back and be a little mature about things. If someone asks you a question and you jump on the defensive and start attacking them, then every bit of advice that you have given has been thrown out the window.

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Wise words..

So can any one answer the question that was originally posted? I know he looks like a normal but i keep getting different responses every where i go..

Hi,

Best guess would be normal.

The possible het pied marker and the granite speckling are not a gaurantee of anything.

There are non hets with the "het pied marker" and 100% hets without it.

And you would have to breed it out to check to see if the granite was genetic as well as there are a great many that look similar but aren't.

I think - feel free to correct me guys.


dr del

Everyone give it up with this thread. It's a damn Norm PERIOD!

Daniel

Edit: Also if you don't have proper enclosures to feed your snakes in then I suggest do the right thing and give them away.

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Originally Posted by cornball252

Yes they have homes..

They are not eating on they floor, to keep them from getting nasty feeding responses we take the out let them have the inital strike out side their enclosure then place them back in once they start to eat this way it keeps them from having a feeding response in their cage...





Correct he straightened right out no harm done... I also prefer not to get bit... don't know about you guys/ gals...


1.) read above....
2.)we are holding the snake like that to prevent us from being bit... and no he is not sick...
3.)nothing is wrong.... I've seen many ball pythons begin to uncurl and look like this and not just my own....
4.) You have never held an aggressive snake have you?


:banana:





Again, not that im for "mistreating" my babies... but first, they are snakes... their food was not throw on the floor either... second, I hand feed all of my snakes....and third my mom and fiance already do that... :rolleye2:


:gj:


Also thanks for all the input guys/gals! I really appreciate it.
andI know some of these pictures look "bad" but they aren't trust me....
I would never hurt any of my snakes. None of my snakes have ever been sick.
Quick question for any one who thought we were holding that bp in a "mean" or "silly" way...

how would you hold this snake??
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/PB060235.jpg

Getting bit is getting bit... It's unpleasant and I'd rather not get bit by anything with teeth...

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Also that's not a Ball it's a Burm.

Daniel

[QUOTE=cornball252;1135565]Once again I do my methods which work for me. you do yours.
QUOTE]

Its not about what methods work for you. It should be about whats best for the snake.

now back to your ? Its a nice looking normal

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Originally Posted by Mr. Constrictor

Its not about what methods work for you. It should be about whats best for the snake.

now back to your ? Its a nice looking normal

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Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

While I appreciate your endorsement of what I wrote earlier, I have to step in again and say that this is SO NOT TRUE. Not to say that we don't have our share of folks who act like they know it all and their way of doing things is the only right way...or that their opinion is the only one that matters. But what would you expect in a group this size? We have literally hundreds of different people participating each and every day. Not all of them are naturally inclined to be nice and diplomatic. :rolleyes: Some folks feel compelled to speak their mind and don't care how others take it. :confuzd:

Should all the tremendous amount of GOOD that goes on here be negated and dismissed because a few people get upset when they see what LOOKS like neglect and abuse of animals? Or when folks get argumentative toward someone who comes looking for advice then dismisses it?

Have you seen how many rescued snakes have been brought back from the brink of death through the tremendous help of folks here? How many pet-store impulse purchases are transformed into ideal environments because of the people here willing to answer the same basic questions over and over again for each and every new person who comes looking for help? Have you seen the community here rally together around someone who has lost an animal or a loved one....or a home??? Did you not see the thousands of dollars raised on simple donations from every-day members here for one who's home was burned to the ground?

If all you...or anyone else sees....are the negative aspects of this site...then I dare to think that's all such a person really wants to see. It's so much easier to spot the negative and get an attitude about it...than it is to savor the good and appreciate it...even when the good outweighs the negative by vast magnitudes.

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:clap: :clap: :clap: ...:bow:...
Yeah....I totally second Robin on this one.
Judy, that's why you're "Da man"!!! :D

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Originally Posted by cornball252

normals can have clear bellies and solid black down his sides?

Yea gotta love not having any room to work with!!! snakes eatin on the floor

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Yuppers I have a male just like that one that I named "Ziggy" because o f the black zigzags on the edge of his belly.

I'm not going to get into how you keep your snakes and all that. You are keeping snakes. Its something you like to do. There is a risk that comes with keeping snakes. Your going to get bit. If getting bit is to big of a problem then don't keep animals that are or will bite you.

You can use hooks and stuff like that. Over time you will be bitten. If you already have. It will happen again. I have a 4 1/2 to 5 foot 2002 normal female. I think she is WC she eats great for me, but she is the meanest snake I own. She gets me or tries to get me every cleaning day. I wouldn't get rid of her for anything. Yeah shes a pissy, mean, you know what. I dont pin her down and grab her by the neck. I handle her the same way I do my babies two days out of the egg. It comes with dealing with snakes. That snake will never calm down if you don't stop stressing it out every time you handle it.

Hey come over to my place let me grab you by your neck. Flip you over onto you back and take pictures of you. See how you like it.

Ok I said I wasnt going to get into how you keep your animals. Well Im going to a bit. You claim to keep your snakes good and all that. Well then post some pics. Prove it, yeah I know you dont have to prove anything to anyone on here. Well it will get everyone to stop ragging on you.

Your going to get bit dealing with snakes. Stop being so mean to your snakes. Just because your afraid of a little bite.

Well, it has the neck spot that's stated to be a granite marker in the guide to the morphs.

Granite is co-dom if it is genetic, so breeding him and getting some granite babies would prove it out. Breed him to a granite female, and see if you get super-granites.

As for taking belly-shots of the snake, I've seen a LOT of belly-shots on the web, and I kind of wonder how exactly folks think those photos are taken. Hint--the snake does not voluntarily roll over onto its back. If it's an aggressive snake, you had better believe the person holding the head end isn't letting the snake chew on him while the photo is snapped.

The momentary discomfort suffered by the snake while its belly photos were taken is not exactly a major event in its life. It's probably a great deal less stressful than a veterinary exam, or being moved to a new location. It's probably about as much of an issue as being probed for gender, something else people do that requires restraining the snake.

Although the snake has its tongue hanging out, which makes it look like it's being strangled, it's probably just putting a lot of effort into pulling back to escape the restraint. Snakes hate being restrained. We do it sometimes anyhow--to examine them, to sex them, to administer meds, or...to take belly photos.

Feeding the snakes on the floor is weird, but if the floor's 80 degrees, I don't see why that's a big issue. They should all be housed individually...if they are not, that's a different problem entirely, and people should be complaining about that, not about the fact he feeds them outside of their cage. Obviously they are eating, so he's not feeding them wrong.

I have a nasty female ball python. If I have to do something with her, beyond moving her to clean her cage (I use a hook for that--and even that is a struggle, as I have to hang on to her tail to keep her from catapulting), you better BELIEVE I grab her behind the neck, and I make darned sure she can't bite me. I have no desire to be bitten by an adult ball python if I CAN avoid it. If I had to take belly photos, they'd probably look something like the OP's.
This snake was handleable when she was stressed from shipping. As she settled in, she got worse and worse, (pulling tricks like lunging at your body while you held her in your hands) until now it isn't safe to free-handle her at all. The more comfortable she became, the worse her temperament got. She now eats frozen-thawed off the tongs without any issue at all. She just plain would rather bite you than let you touch her, regardless of how gentle you are about it.

Yes, if you own snakes, you will be bitten. A bite from an adult ball python could cause serious injury if it nicked the wrong thing, or became infected. It is not bright to ALLOW one to bite you, if you can avoid it. It is not abuse to temporarily restrain an aggressive snake. Doing so does not injure the snake. Is it 'mean'? Well, handling your snakes at all is 'mean', they don't enjoy it and it's stressful for them, much as folks might like to think otherwise. It's a minor bit of 'mean' done for the snake's own good (the answer to the question the OP posted might positively affect its future), and for the owner's good (keeping them in captivity at all is PURELY for our good, not theirs).

If you want to let your aggressive snakes bite you instead of restraining them...well, you go right ahead with that. But don't think it makes your handling methods superior--it seems rather foolhardy to me. Choosing between making the snake temporarily uncomfortable and allowing it to make me bleed? No-brainer there. Snake gets grabbed, and I remain unperforated. The snake will get over the indignity fairly quickly. I dare say, quicker than my wounds would have healed.

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Originally Posted by ama1997

I'm not going to get into how you keep your snakes and all that. You are keeping snakes. Its something you like to do. There is a risk that comes with keeping snakes. Your going to get bit. If getting bit is to big of a problem then don't keep animals that are or will bite you.

You can use hooks and stuff like that. Over time you will be bitten. If you already have. It will happen again. I have a 4 1/2 to 5 foot 2002 normal female. I think she is WC she eats great for me, but she is the meanest snake I own. She gets me or tries to get me every cleaning day. I wouldn't get rid of her for anything. Yeah shes a pissy, mean, you know what. I dont pin her down and grab her by the neck. I handle her the same way I do my babies two days out of the egg. It comes with dealing with snakes. That snake will never calm down if you don't stop stressing it out every time you handle it.

Hey come over to my place let me grab you by your neck. Flip you over onto you back and take pictures of you. See how you like it.

Ok I said I wasnt going to get into how you keep your animals. Well Im going to a bit. You claim to keep your snakes good and all that. Well then post some pics. Prove it, yeah I know you dont have to prove anything to anyone on here. Well it will get everyone to stop ragging on you.

Your going to get bit dealing with snakes. Stop being so mean to your snakes. Just because your afraid of a little bite.

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LOL i have a few females like that and i have to say the ones that are mean seem to be the ones that always breed with no probs for me :rolleye2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ama1997

I'm not going to get into how you keep your snakes and all that. You are keeping snakes. Its something you like to do. There is a risk that comes with keeping snakes. Your going to get bit. If getting bit is to big of a problem then don't keep animals that are or will bite you.

You can use hooks and stuff like that. Over time you will be bitten. If you already have. It will happen again. I have a 4 1/2 to 5 foot 2002 normal female. I think she is WC she eats great for me, but she is the meanest snake I own. She gets me or tries to get me every cleaning day. I wouldn't get rid of her for anything. Yeah shes a pissy, mean, you know what. I dont pin her down and grab her by the neck. I handle her the same way I do my babies two days out of the egg. It comes with dealing with snakes. That snake will never calm down if you don't stop stressing it out every time you handle it.

Hey come over to my place let me grab you by your neck. Flip you over onto you back and take pictures of you. See how you like it.

Ok I said I wasnt going to get into how you keep your animals. Well Im going to a bit. You claim to keep your snakes good and all that. Well then post some pics. Prove it, yeah I know you dont have to prove anything to anyone on here. Well it will get everyone to stop ragging on you.

Your going to get bit dealing with snakes. Stop being so mean to your snakes. Just because your afraid of a little bite.

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lol you obviously haven't even skimmed through this thread. otherwise you would understand im not afraid of being bit. first off if you take a look at page eight you will see my fiance holding the snake like the rest of you "expert" snake handlers... its not like we walk around holding the thing behind the neck for everything we do... I would like one of you to explain to me how you would hold an aggressive snake upside down for a belly picture. then do it so we can see you getting bit and laugh.... once again... I'll do things my way.. because your way seems a bit stupid... no offense....:salute:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Well, it has the neck spot that's stated to be a granite marker in the guide to the morphs.

Granite is co-dom if it is genetic, so breeding him and getting some granite babies would prove it out. Breed him to a granite female, and see if you get super-granites.

As for taking belly-shots of the snake, I've seen a LOT of belly-shots on the web, and I kind of wonder how exactly folks think those photos are taken. Hint--the snake does not voluntarily roll over onto its back. If it's an aggressive snake, you had better believe the person holding the head end isn't letting the snake chew on him while the photo is snapped.

The momentary discomfort suffered by the snake while its belly photos were taken is not exactly a major event in its life. It's probably a great deal less stressful than a veterinary exam, or being moved to a new location. It's probably about as much of an issue as being probed for gender, something else people do that requires restraining the snake.

Although the snake has its tongue hanging out, which makes it look like it's being strangled, it's probably just putting a lot of effort into pulling back to escape the restraint. Snakes hate being restrained. We do it sometimes anyhow--to examine them, to sex them, to administer meds, or...to take belly photos.

Feeding the snakes on the floor is weird, but if the floor's 80 degrees, I don't see why that's a big issue. They should all be housed individually...if they are not, that's a different problem entirely, and people should be complaining about that, not about the fact he feeds them outside of their cage. Obviously they are eating, so he's not feeding them wrong.

I have a nasty female ball python. If I have to do something with her, beyond moving her to clean her cage (I use a hook for that--and even that is a struggle, as I have to hang on to her tail to keep her from catapulting), you better BELIEVE I grab her behind the neck, and I make darned sure she can't bite me. I have no desire to be bitten by an adult ball python if I CAN avoid it. If I had to take belly photos, they'd probably look something like the OP's.
This snake was handleable when she was stressed from shipping. As she settled in, she got worse and worse, (pulling tricks like lunging at your body while you held her in your hands) until now it isn't safe to free-handle her at all. The more comfortable she became, the worse her temperament got. She now eats frozen-thawed off the tongs without any issue at all. She just plain would rather bite you than let you touch her, regardless of how gentle you are about it.

Yes, if you own snakes, you will be bitten. A bite from an adult ball python could cause serious injury if it nicked the wrong thing, or became infected. It is not bright to ALLOW one to bite you, if you can avoid it. It is not abuse to temporarily restrain an aggressive snake. Doing so does not injure the snake. Is it 'mean'? Well, handling your snakes at all is 'mean', they don't enjoy it and it's stressful for them, much as folks might like to think otherwise. It's a minor bit of 'mean' done for the snake's own good (the answer to the question the OP posted might positively affect its future), and for the owner's good (keeping them in captivity at all is PURELY for our good, not theirs).

If you want to let your aggressive snakes bite you instead of restraining them...well, you go right ahead with that. But don't think it makes your handling methods superior--it seems rather foolhardy to me. Choosing between making the snake temporarily uncomfortable and allowing it to make me bleed? No-brainer there. Snake gets grabbed, and I remain unperforated. The snake will get over the indignity fairly quickly. I dare say, quicker than my wounds would have healed.

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I wish there were more intelligent people like you.:bow:

I just read through all 10 pages of this thread (Yay being laid off... -_-) and you've said how you're not afraid of being bitten and what not, how you have a hook... But I've read that if you just let the snake bite you and don't react to it, it'll realize that biting does no good. So do you have gloves/arm guards? Maybe if you show him that biting does not get rid of you, he'll calm down. Just what I've observed :)

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Originally Posted by Elise.m

I just read through all 10 pages of this thread (Yay being laid off... -_-) and you've said how you're not afraid of being bitten and what not, how you have a hook... But I've read that if you just let the snake bite you and don't react to it, it'll realize that biting does no good. So do you have gloves/arm guards? Maybe if you show him that biting does not get rid of you, he'll calm down. Just what I've observed :)

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Yes i do ahave gloves and no it hasnt worked for him..

Everyone just needs to be quiet and give up. There are two sides to this argument here, and obviously neither side is ever going to back down and neither side is going to change their minds.

This is useless; getting all worked up over something that won't be changed. The OP gets it, so stop adding posts that are arguing. I'm not defending the OP, nor am I defending the others, but it is time everyone stops being obsessive with changing other people's minds.

No one is going to die, nothing bad is going to happen if we just stop. Just stop...