Here you are...

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I know what I'm talking about when I say these mods do a damn fine job at a difficult task.

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I completely agree. Please don't think for one second that I don't. I was just trying to turn the conversation into a positive curve. Ya know, sugar coating and all. lol.

I was just wondering if it is so easy to write a TOS to keep everyone happy, let's hear how it should be written. It was not an attack on the current TOS. :D

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

I completely agree. Please don't think for one second that I don't. I was just trying to turn the conversation into a positive curve. Ya know, sugar coating and all. lol.

I was just wondering if it is so easy to write a TOS to keep everyone happy, let's hear how it should be written. It was not an attack on the current TOS. :D

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Ahhhh, sounded like you wanted to have the TOS rewritten.

The problem with asking for this stuff is some folks will take it seriously and most will not understand that this is not the first time staff has considered all the things that came up here, some with the very same people, and so get all butthurt when their brilliant ideas are not utilized.

The thing is, none of this is new, it's just new to you.

While ideas are grand, new ideas are few and far between.

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

I'm going to say this from the neutral zone. There are two sides or more in just about everything. Same here on this site. You have the "stuck up" side and the "ghetto" side. I realize both of these are negative terms, but are the views of the "other" side, if you will. "edit" I'm not trying to start anything here, just showing that a general negative attitude is displayed from both angles. "/edit"

Opinions are opinions, but favoritism just isn't right. If you're going to enforce these rules for "one side", you should do so for the "other side" as well. It is not fair to any members to have to worry about which group they choose to associate with, or how they have to mold their posts as not to anger a group into harassment.

Every one has the right to be treated equally.

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Again..it is straight forward. Give your two cents and move on.

If you don't like how this site is ran....leave.

A 30 page opinion is a bit ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

The thing is, none of this is new, it's just new to you.

While ideas are grand, new ideas are few and far between.

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Oh. The funny thing is I'll probably be saying the same thing to another newbie in three years. :) And I'll be able to look back and laugh.

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

Ok. Then. How would you put the TOS? Let's get some suggestions. I'm sure the Admins wouldn't mind.

How would you state the rules to keep the site kid friendly, and make everyone feel welcom. It can't be that you can say anything. Maybe we could put up a poll on different rules, and members can vote on them?

We should be able to come to a happy medium. Right?

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I don't know if you were talking to me or not, but I am quite fond of the TOS on this website. I've seen some pretty nasty Rule sets in my day as well..

Wes, I must say, you really do have a lot of my respect.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I don't know if you were talking to me or not, but I am quite fond of the TOS on this website. I've seen some pretty nasty Rule sets in my day as well..

Wes, I must say, you really do have a lot of my respect.

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Careful, whatever group I belong to must be a minority and therefore we must be persecuted, and openly respecting me could lead those of dubious intelligence to think you were just like me and, well, that's an interesting twist on the road, isn't it?

No wonder I have such issues, I'm persecuted and didn't even know it.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I don't know if you were talking to me or not, but I am quite fond of the TOS on this website. I've seen some pretty nasty Rule sets in my day as well..

Wes, I must say, you really do have a lot of my respect.

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No no no. lol. I was being sarcastic to the ones who think it's easy to write a TOS. :oops: I'm not as good at it as Wes. lol.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I read the whole thing... even his sig was his opinion, but oh no, opinions matter (for the select few).

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Yes Matt - opinions are allowed to be expressed, as much as you want. The FACT is, you can only express your opinion to a certain extent until it starts getting disrespectful, rude, and out of line. There are no secrets. The sig that was displayed was an opinion, but a disrespectful opinion and an uncalled for jab at the way we do things here.

Judy politely PM'd him asking him to remove the signature, because it was disrespectful. He was given an opportunity to do things right, and we gave him the time and the courtesy of a choice instead of out right infracting him. He refused, and was given the consequences he was told he would get. He was disrespectful and THAT is not acceptable here.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

I did.

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And she is responded to you, yes?

8:38 -- You PM'd Judy

9:05 -- You posted an unfounded and complete bogus accusation WITHOUT hearing the truth (actually, Judy already posted the facts HERE. but you apparently missed that part, and up above I've simply echo'd her previous post )

9:12 -- Judy responded to you and answered your questions, and many other questions beyond that.

Just setting the record straight.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Careful, whatever group I belong to must be a minority and therefore we must be persecuted, and openly respecting me could lead those of dubious intelligence to think you were just like me and, well, that's an interesting twist on the road, isn't it?

No wonder I have such issues, I'm persecuted and didn't even know it.

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This is here is golden. ha. :)




...wait....but let's keep this straight...I don't roll with your 'kind'...don't wanna get caught up in any nonsense...

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Again..it is straight forward. Give your two cents and move on.

If you don't like how this site is ran....leave.

A 30 page opinion is a bit ridiculous.

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I believe I did just state my opinion. It is ironic, however, that I accidentally hit refresh instead of home, though, and then moved on to read this post.

Stop instigating bs and pretending you are better than anyone else. You aren't.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Careful, whatever group I belong to must be a minority and therefore we must be persecuted, and openly respecting me could lead those of dubious intelligence to think you were just like me and, well, that's an interesting twist on the road, isn't it?

No wonder I have such issues, I'm persecuted and didn't even know it.

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Twists tend to be much more interesting than long straight highways. :gj:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

LOL LOL LOL

Not everyone sees through the same set of blinders you do. It's a common misconception but erroneous nonetheless.

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I rest my case. :D ;)

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

I believe I did just state my opinion. It is ironic, however, that I accidentally hit refresh instead of home, though, and then moved on to read this post.

Stop instigating bs and pretending you are better than anyone else. You aren't.

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Chill Bro...I just hate when people bicker.

There are newbs joining this site everyday who litter the front page with questions. Go answer some of their questions instead of acting like your the second coming of Francesco Petrarca. :rolleyes:

I find it amazing that people really think they have the right to bash a site ON the site, and then think they should be allowed to continue bashing it, without any consequances.

This is NOT a right. This is a privately owned site, and techinally the site owner(or his designated moderators) can boot ANYONE off the site at ANY time for ANY reason. Rules or TOS notwithstanding.

Now having stated that, the TOS are pretty easy to follow. Stating your opinion is all fine and dandy until your opinion is breaking TOS. Even THEN the mods did not ban him, but asked him to remove the statement, more than once.

If people want a unmoderated forum that they can state whatever they want at any time, they'll have to go find one. On several sites I've been on, you'd have been booted on the first occasion.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I find it amazing that people really think they have the right to bash a site ON the site, and then think they should be allowed to continue bashing it, without any consequances.

This is NOT a right. This is a privately owned site, and techinally the site owner(or his designated moderators) can boot ANYONE off the site at ANY time for ANY reason. Rules or TOS notwithstanding.

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There you go. From what I've seen this site is not a democracy as far as the TOS and staff opinions go...

Not saying whether that's good or bad, but we all signed a contract (TOS) when we joined the site. I think the OP was trying to argue about the following...

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3. No Hate Speak. This includes, but is not limited to: cursing; threats of violence; racial, religious, or sexual slurs; personal attacks; bear-baiting; and speech intended to cause or further a "flame war" or personal vendetta. This includes vindictive use of the Reputation System. Ultimately, it will be up to the staff (the mods and ultimately the admins) to determine if any given post or thread has crossed these lines.

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...when it clearly is not up for debate. OP says Robin was bear-baiting, Judy says she wasn't. Judy wins. End of story. YOU agreed to it when you signed up for the site!

For the love of god folks. Jerhart you have probably said the smartest thing on this thread. Let's try to remember that newbs are in fact reading our every word. Hey newbs come join in the fun?

Come on! Could we all just get back to the business of helping people?

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Originally Posted by Sasquatch Art

Yeah of course certain opinions-statements can be against the TOS. I agree with that.. And with that I think some people need to go back and reread or rewrite the TOS.

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So they fit each individual, like your boyfriend for example. Does that mean we would need many versions to accommodate each and every individual of this forum?

Makes sense. :rolleye2:

Andrew was given a chance, he was asked to change his sig, HE chose not to, therefore he was ready and willing to accept the consequences of his action, should he have changed his sig he would still be a member here having a discussion on this thread with us.

Again posting here is a privilege not a right, you either agree to the TOS and play by the rules or you don’t, it's up to each and everyone of us.

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Originally Posted by Sasquatch Art

I don't care what power someone holds.. The TOS should be followed by everyone..

If not, yeah it should be rewrote.

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So does that mean they also apply to Andrew or does it means because Andrew disagree we should re-write everything to fit him as a member? :confuzd:

Interestingly, I do not see big companies, banks etc re-write their TOS because I or other people disagree with them. :rolleyes:

We must not be living in the same world.

I think it is so silly that these people are still on this forum if they think it is so unfair. There are many other forums out there, why not have a look?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

It's a shame you newbs don't know my past. I used to hear the mod forums humming when I'd join a site. I know what I'm talking about when I say these mods do a damn fine job at a difficult task.l.

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You have a past :O :rolleyes:,do tell :rofl::rofl::rofl:.

Wilomn is my new favorite person.

“There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it.” - Oscar Wilde

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Originally Posted by Deborah

So they fit each individual, like your boyfriend for example. Does that mean we would need many versions to accommodate each and every individual of this forum?

Makes sense. :rolleye2:

Andrew was given a chance, he was asked to change his sig, HE chose not to, therefore he was ready and willing to accept the consequences of his action, should he have changed his sig he would still be a member here having a discussion on this thread with us.

Again posting here is a privilege not a right, you either agree to the TOS and play by the rules or you don’t, it's up to each and everyone of us. So does that mean they also apply to Andrew or does it means because Andrew disagree we should re-write everything to fit him as a member? :confuzd:

Interestingly, I do not see big companies, banks etc re-write their TOS because I or other people disagree with them. :rolleyes:

We must not be living in the same world.

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Again, I see a mod/admin trying to get a rise out of someone.

Here...Deb knows Andrew is Ashleys BF so of course she is going to take this tone, and try to be-little her. "makes sense "rolleye" " "we must not live in the same world".

I just dont see how its ok for the mods to get away with crap like this.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Again, I see a mod/admin trying to get a rise out of someone.

Here...Deb knows Andrew is Ashleys BF so of course she is going to take this tone, and try to be-little her. "makes sense "rolleye" " "we must not live in the same world".

I just dont see how its ok for the mods to get away with crap like this.

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Would you prefer someone else say it? Would that make it okay in your eyes? Or would you still not like it and just say nothing...

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Would you prefer someone else say it? Would that make it okay in your eyes? Or would you still not like it and just say nothing...

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I dont give a rats arse who says it.

The fact that they can bear bait people and get away with it, while everyone else gets infractions for it.

Is it right, No

Is it Ball-pythons.net, Yes


I just think that the estrogen filled admin team doesnt realize that they hold the biggest double standard.



Im done!

Pat...please point out one post where a member was infracted for "rolling their eyes" or being a tad bit sarcastic when making a point. If you can find one, I'll personally reverse it and make a public apology for the entire mess.

Pat you speak my mind... too bad I can't give you another rep point, but I'll do it as soon as I can :D

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

estrogen filled admin team

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You want to accuse someone of Bear Baiting when you say crap like that? C'mon Patrick, you're better than that. If I said that and my fiance found out that I said that, I wouldn't get any 'hugs' for a week.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Again, I see a mod/admin trying to get a rise out of someone.

Here...Deb knows Andrew is Ashleys BF so of course she is going to take this tone, and try to be-little her. "makes sense "rolleye" " "we must not live in the same world".

I just dont see how its ok for the mods to get away with crap like this.

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There's a perceived difference in a forum member, such as Wes, voicing his feelings in support of Brian in the "giant snake - small enclosure " thread and mods seemingly - and the key word is seemingly, coming to Brian's aid.

I have no bone to pic with either the mods (or in general the job they do) or Brian, and I don't keep giant snakes. I though Andrew's initial comments regarding the size of the afrock enclosure showed that he wasn't out to bash anyone.

Where the proverbial bone got caught in the throat is with the monitor. I agree with Andrew and I agree with other varanid keepers that there were some inconsistencies in what what was explained - but in the end, so what? This has been hashed and re-hased on several forums and the consensus is that as a temporary enclosure it was inadequate and that if the animal was that violent a feeder, that a separate feeding bin was probably a bad idea. So it was a bad choice all the way around...............period and I don't need anyone to explain or defend it.

I do agree that if another forum member had posted the same video, that they would not have been afforded the same leeway that Brian was..........however, I agree with the assertion that Brian is a dedicated keeper who should be given a bit of freeboard because he's earned it.

So in the end, Brian gets the benefit of the dount because of the reputation he has earned in this community. I get that and I can live with that.

But having site mods appearing to poke and prod Andrew (example - the shot about Andrew laying aside his integrity for a photo shoot) is a bit harder to swallow.

People question other people's husbandry skills all the time here, and it's usually done without the mods stepping in to give the target cover.

Because arguing about it is productive and will totally get this somewhere... :rolleyes:

here we go again lol

Ha, reminds me of when Jas, Cue or any other well known member was banned. Such is the wax and wane of forums.

Does anyone else think broken records are annoying?

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

Does anyone else think broken records are annoying?

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YouTube - Lamb chops play-Along

:rofl:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

But having site mods appearing to poke and prod Andrew (example - the shot about Andrew laying aside his integrity for a photo shoot) is a bit harder to swallow.

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If you have the balls to call someone out then you're liable for any jab, poke, prod that may come your way. In the case of Andrew I have 0 sympathy seeing as how he has a history of doing the same thing. The proof was in the QT Room but the thread seems to have been pruned.

What does estrogen have to do with anything? Are we now going to divide ourselves by gender?

>.<

I was waiting for the police to come over and poke at me, being the Girlfriend and all.

Ok lets just be straight forward. I am standing here because I am so sick of certain Mods/Admins walking around like their opinion doesn't stink. With the "You can't touch me attitude."

And I am pointing at you Judy.. Oh, and lets not forget your squad.. Hehe That includes you Connie ;}

Speaking of Connie.. I love your artwork. You and of course the selected know what I am referring too.
*coughs* Hitler post *coughs*
Where were the infractions and punishment you received for that? I thought this was the fairest forum around. Oh yeah you guys are to good for all that.

You walk around saying you have this amazing forum but in the background you bear bait, poke, and say these little comments to get people going. But no matter what is said you are always going to win and try and make yourselves out as the good guy/right guy.

I am going with Jerhart.. I am done and this will be my last post on Bp.net. So Judy or whoever.. whether it be squad member, don't waste your time and come at me.

The thing about the TOS.. That was a smart as way of saying.. If the OWNER cant even follow her damn rules and regulations.. I think you have some major problems...perhaps your standards on regulations are too high?...

Amazing how comments from certain people will disappear without as much as a wink.

Siggys get you infractions, but references to Hitler will be automatically deleted at will with no infractions to incur.

Blasphemy


I am literally just at awe right now.


Hands do bleed from gripping double edged swords no?

Question???

How are you so sure Connie didn't get an infraction for that post???

Sasquatch Art, peace, don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out. By the way Patrick, everyone who is talking about "Bear Baiting".

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Originally Posted by CeraDigital

Look back on the kingsnake threads about his monitor caging, and on other forums. Those were possible customers wanting to buy from him, but refuse until they see caging. I would be also. Refusing to accept the fact that this could or could not damage reputation is simple ignorance. Be a groupie all you want, but simple thing is it shows customer service, pre-purchase.

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Post: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showp...&postcount=236

Robin's Post that everyone threw a hissy fit over:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showp...&postcount=239

Patrick, your "Bear Baiting" post:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showp...&postcount=248

I would like to point out, to anyone who doesn't understand my point, that Andrew threw the first peice of bait out.

I'm starting to wonder who actually read that thread.

Why does any of this surprise anyone???? Of course friends are afforded special treatment. It happens everywhere you go in everything you do, Such is life. If you don't like it you have several options. None of which include changing the TOS of a site that you DO NOT OWN! You can complain about it, you can question it, you can even choose not to deal with it anymore. But in the end you can not change it. This is not your house. You are a guest and if you don't like the host, I say don't let the door hit you. :gj:

I think Patrick has a very valid point. What good are standards and values if they're not upheld by those who made them? Mods/Admins can always ask for examples of bear baiting etc.., but you can't find them, they mysteriously vanished into thin air. No wait, it must be a bandwidth issue, had to delete it.

I really don't care how new I am here, standards and values (upholding the TOS ex: no bear baiting) should at LEAST be held up by those in "power."

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Originally Posted by joshthaxton

I think Patrick has a very valid point. What good are standards and values if they're not upheld by those who made them? Mods/Admins can always ask for examples of bear baiting etc.., but you can't find them, they mysteriously vanished into thin air. No wait, it must be a bandwidth issue, had to delete it.

I really don't care how new I am here, standards and values (upholding the TOS ex: no bear baiting) should at LEAST be held up by those in "power."

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DOES ANYONE READ THESE THREADS!?! :taz::taz::taz:

Look 2 posts up!

I've read the original locked one, and every page of this one.

I forgot I'm supposed to please everybody, thanks for reminding me.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Amazing how comments from certain people will disappear without as much as a wink.

Siggys get you infractions, but references to Hitler will be automatically deleted at will with no infractions to incur.

Blasphemy

I am literally just at awe right now.
Hands do bleed from gripping double edged swords no?

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Question???

How are you so sure Connie didn't get an infraction for that post???

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The only reason I ask Pat is because I know for a fact that users can't see each others infractions..

So either

1: your talking out your backside because you have no clue and are just guessing..

or

2: you've been given a special privilege by the staff that allows you to see them..

So how is it that you are so sure Connie didn't get an infraction???

Your making these accusations please back them up??

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Originally Posted by joshthaxton

I've read the original locked one, and every page of this one.

I forgot I'm supposed to please everybody, thanks for reminding me.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by joshthaxton

Mods/Admins can always ask for examples of bear baiting etc.., but you can't find them, they mysteriously vanished into thin air. No wait, it must be a bandwidth issue, had to delete it.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Post: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showp...&postcount=236

Robin's Post that everyone threw a hissy fit over:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showp...&postcount=239

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I must be a miracle worker, I found one!

I've read both of those, what is your point? In regards to the other thread, I personally don't feel that Brian should have had to justify himself. But I also don't keep monitors or giants, so I could honestly care less. As far as the mod/admin thing goes...I've seen "hot" threads go so quick into quarantine its not even funny. In my opinion - which I'm entitled to - that doesn't give people much time to read/voice their opinion on said matter. Especially if someone like myself might only check this site once or twice a day, because I'm busy w/ other, more important things

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Originally Posted by joshthaxton

I've read both of those, what is your point? In regards to the other thread, I personally don't feel that Brian should have had to justify himself. But I also don't keep monitors or giants, so I could honestly care less. As far as the mod/admin thing goes...I've seen "hot" threads go so quick into quarantine its not even funny. In my opinion - which I'm entitled to - that doesn't give people much time to read/voice their opinion on said matter. Especially if someone like myself might only check this site once or twice a day, because I'm busy w/ other, more important things

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So, why don't you just ask to get into the quarantine section?

I have an idea, let's all just lay on the floor and keep kicking and screaming. It worked so well, when we were CHILDREN!

Hi,

Just a note for everyone else - quarantine is open to all members who wish to view it - all you need do is contact a member of the Admin team and ask.

Posts moved to quarantine can still be read and replied to by anyone who wishes to do so.


dr del

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Originally Posted by joshthaxton

I've read both of those, what is your point?

As far as the mod/admin thing goes...I've seen "hot" threads go so quick into quarantine its not even funny. In my opinion - which I'm entitled to - that doesn't give people much time to read/voice their opinion on said matter. Especially if someone like myself might only check this site once or twice a day, because I'm busy w/ other, more important things

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Point:
You said you can't find any example of "Bear Baiting", so I found one for you. This would be the 3rd time I've said that.

I'm sorry but you can PM any admin for access to the QT Room so I don't understand what threads being moved into the QT Room has to do with anything.