I Approve of Most of H.R. 669

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Originally Posted by Tyler_Royality

sorry guys.. but even Congressmen who don't live normal everyday working lives like most of us know that there are thousands of pet stores in this country. Most of them are not stupid enough to make hundreds of thousands MORE people unemployed. This bill passes. all pet stores are gone. I understand the seriousness of this bill.. I just know that it wont pass, so I'm not losing sleep over it.

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....bars and restaurants were probably aware that they would lose some business if they banned smoking inside.....didn't stop them from banning it.

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Originally Posted by Tyler_Royality

sorry guys.. but even Congressmen who don't live normal everyday working lives like most of us know that there are thousands of pet stores in this country. Most of them are not stupid enough to make hundreds of thousands MORE people unemployed. This bill passes. all pet stores are gone. I understand the seriousness of this bill.. I just know that it wont pass, so I'm not losing sleep over it.

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Well for most of US who live in the REAL WORLD and do not underestimate lobbyists this bill is VERY REAL and this is why we are standing up against it.

Keep the “I am not worry it won’t happen” attitude and do nothing about it and you will be in for a big surprise if that bill pass.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Tyler_Royality

sorry guys.. but even Congressmen who don't live normal everyday working lives like most of us know that there are thousands of pet stores in this country. Most of them are not stupid enough to make hundreds of thousands MORE people unemployed. This bill passes. all pet stores are gone. I understand the seriousness of this bill.. I just know that it wont pass, so I'm not losing sleep over it.

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I just can't for the life of me understand why it's so much easier for people to stand so firm and willful about doing absolutely nothing than it is to send an email.

Everyone in the United States has a voice if they choose to use it ... there are people on this planet that don't have the right to participate in their government and would literally kill for the chance to express their passions to people represented to give them a voice in a democracy like ours.

It's one email ... one minute out of your life ... whether you believe the bill will go anywhere or not, why wouldn't you want to stand up and yell for what you believe in? If for no other reason that just because you can ... you can because men and women have died to give you that right and because our soldiers right now are patrolling cities, villages, skies, and oceans protecting that right.

Just sayin. :salute:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Tyler_Royality

sorry guys.. but even Congressmen who don't live normal everyday working lives like most of us know that there are thousands of pet stores in this country. Most of them are not stupid enough to make hundreds of thousands MORE people unemployed. This bill passes. all pet stores are gone. I understand the seriousness of this bill.. I just know that it wont pass, so I'm not losing sleep over it.

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Cool, then we don't have anything to worry about then..woo hoo!
Oh, wait a minute.........
ya know if would not be the first time that the Government did something that didn't make much sense or was not for the greater good of our Country. Many people probably honestly don't see what the big deal is about all of this. Many people have never had a pet and never plan too. They may not actually see the damage that something like this would immediately cause or think about how many people make a living from their love of animals.

A know alot may get upset about this post but I'm posting anyway. I am doing my part to help in the stance of it not passing.

But anyway, if this bill does pass. What the reptile community should do is release your reptile into the wild. If they want to screw us then screw them. We will make our reptiles Native in the United States.

If we don't release them into the wild, what are the the people with 20, 60, 100, 1000 and 5000 reptiles suppose to do with them. If they take away the hobby, how will we feed these animals without the income. Let me guess there going to want us to kill them all. Release them and let them try to thrive in the wild.

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Originally Posted by Dizzlen07

A know alot may get upset about this post but I'm posting anyway. I am doing my part to help in the stance of it not passing.

But anyway, if this bill does pass. What the reptile community should do is release your reptile into the wild. If they want to screw us then screw them. We will make our reptiles Native in the United States.

If we don't release them into the wild, what are the the people with 20, 60, 100, 1000 and 5000 reptiles suppose to do with them. If they take away the hobby, how will we feed these animals without the income. Let me guess there going to want us to kill them all. Release them and let them try to thrive in the wild.

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Wow....this is the worst idea I have heard in a LONG time. Sorry. But intentionally trying to ruin our native ecology WILL have a direct negative effect on our every day life...


...plus you are just killing your animals. You really think a python will thrive in anywhere but those subtropical/arid climates?

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Originally Posted by Dizzlen07

A know alot may get upset about this post but I'm posting anyway. I am doing my part to help in the stance of it not passing.

But anyway, if this bill does pass. What the reptile community should do is release your reptile into the wild. If they want to screw us then screw them. We will make our reptiles Native in the United States.

If we don't release them into the wild, what are the the people with 20, 60, 100, 1000 and 5000 reptiles suppose to do with them. If they take away the hobby, how will we feed these animals without the income. Let me guess there going to want us to kill them all. Release them and let them try to thrive in the wild.

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That's just the kind of mentality that we DON'T need. You forget that the bottom line is we actually do love and appreciate nature and the order of things.

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Originally Posted by Dizzlen07

A know alot may get upset about this post but I'm posting anyway. I am doing my part to help in the stance of it not passing.

But anyway, if this bill does pass. What the reptile community should do is release your reptile into the wild. If they want to screw us then screw them. We will make our reptiles Native in the United States.

If we don't release them into the wild, what are the the people with 20, 60, 100, 1000 and 5000 reptiles suppose to do with them. If they take away the hobby, how will we feed these animals without the income. Let me guess there going to want us to kill them all. Release them and let them try to thrive in the wild.

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My snakes won't thrive here, they will die real fast outside. I don't think thats what we should do. I just went ahead and e-mailed some government folks and let them know that the bill is a terrible idea.

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Originally Posted by Dizzlen07

A know alot may get upset about this post but I'm posting anyway. I am doing my part to help in the stance of it not passing.

But anyway, if this bill does pass. What the reptile community should do is release your reptile into the wild. If they want to screw us then screw them. We will make our reptiles Native in the United States.

If we don't release them into the wild, what are the the people with 20, 60, 100, 1000 and 5000 reptiles suppose to do with them. If they take away the hobby, how will we feed these animals without the income. Let me guess there going to want us to kill them all. Release them and let them try to thrive in the wild.

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:rolleyes: you have any other bright idea like that one if so do us a favor keep them to yourself.

That is one of the most irresponsible thing I ever heard, and people wonder why we have a bad reputation :rolleyes:

I knew many wouldn't agree but no big deal. But answer this.

Say you have 50 plus ball pythons and make an average income with your full time job. How do you feed these ball pythons if this bill passes.

What do the full time breeders do if this passes?

And I should have phrased that alittle better. I'm not talking about huge snakes that do pose a threat to wildlife but smaller snakes/lizards.

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Originally Posted by Dizzlen07

And I should have phrased that alittle better. I'm not talking about huge snakes that do pose a threat to wildlife but smaller snakes/lizards.

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That is STILL a HORRIBLE idea. You need to a do a little reading on the impact invasive species have on native ecology.

I am making a point here. I have never released a reptile into the wild and have had reptiles for more than 10 years. But my question here is what do you do if you have multiple (not 2 or 3) reptiles, if this bill passes other than release them into the wild?

Will do, But what other options will there be?

Do smaller snake species really pose much of a threat to the native ecology. They can't be much different than what we have native in the U.S. now.

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Originally Posted by Dizzlen07

I knew many wouldn't agree but no big deal. But answer this.

Say you have 50 plus ball pythons and make an average income with your full time job. How do you feed these ball pythons if this bill passes.

What do the full time breeders do if this passes?

And I should have phrased that alittle better. I'm not talking about huge snakes that do pose a threat to wildlife but smaller snakes/lizards.

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perhaps you should contact the committee and ask them they supposedly know everything about it.


they will go bankrupt!

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Originally Posted by Dizzlen07

Will do, But what other options will there be?

Do smaller snake species really pose much of a threat to the native ecology. They can't be much different than what we have native in the U.S. now.

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Yes!....it's species competition. Do your research.

If the Bill Passes....I will keep my animals until the feds take them from me white knuckles...becuase I am not letting them go. It is their problem if they pass it.

Exactly go bankrupt and have no money to feed all the snakes. So what happens to the snakes they die, right? So, what would it harm to let those snakes into the wild and let them try to thrive then just let em die in front of you?

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Yes!....it's species competition. Do your research.

If the Bill Passes....I will keep my animals until the feds take them from me white knuckles...becuase I am not letting them go. It is their problem if they pass it.

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Ok, but how many animals do you have and do you have enough money to care for them if the bill passes?

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Yes!....it's species competition. Do your research.

If the Bill Passes....I will keep my animals until the feds take them from me white knuckles...becuase I am not letting them go. It is their problem if they pass it.

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Thank you and Yes I will do MY research.

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Originally Posted by Dizzlen07

Ok, but how many animals do you have and do you have enough money to care for them if the bill passes?

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There are too many independent variables here to give an answer to this.

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Originally Posted by Dizzlen07

Exactly go bankrupt and have no money to feed all the snakes. So what happens to the snakes they die, right? So, what would it harm to let those snakes into the wild and let them try to thrive then just let em die in front of you?

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Oh, so if I don't have to SEE them die it's OK?
I live in Colorado, my snakes couldn't stand a chance out there.

I take the appropriate precautions, my snakes will always have food in their bellies and heat under them. I would never take on the responsibilty if I thought I wouldn't be able to follow through on my part of the committment.

I would hope if someone no longer had the means to take care of ANY animal they would do the responsible thing, which DOES NOT include letting them out in the "wild"

Ok, stupid post....To many variables, true. I live in Florida and their is already a population of pythons, iguanas, monitors and other reptiles. Thats what made me think of this. Your right. It would be stupid to let any reptile out in Colorado and many other states. They would have no chance. But I know in Florida they would have a great chance to survive instead of not being fed in captivity.

Corvid, Maybe you took the appropriate precautions (like myself) becuase you obviously don't live off your reptile hobby like a many others. But how can you say someone that has a succusful bussiness that goes under due to a bill is irresposible??? You missed the point.

But anyway, everyone else,sorry. Stupid post. I have no shame.

Dizzlen, here is an example of how big of an impact a non-native species can have on our ecology.

Believe it or not....earthworms are not native to America. They came from Europe and Asia. Well, here in Minnesota without worms, fallen leaves decompose slowly, creating a spongy layer of organic "duff." This duff layer is the natural growing environment for native woodland wildflowers. It also provides habitat for ground-dwelling animals and helps prevent soil erosion.

Invading earthworms eat the leaves that create the duff layer and are capable of eliminating it completely. Big trees survive, but many young seedlings perish, along with many ferns and wildflowers. Some species return after the initial invasion, but others disappear. In areas heavily infested by earthworms, soil erosion and leaching of nutrients may reduce the productivity of forests and ultimately degrade fish habitat. [mndnr]

So...you can see the impact a tiny earthworm can have on an entire forrest and it's ecology, effect even fish.

Now imagine what is happening to the florida ecology with the Burms and Iguanas roaming freely?

Yes, Burms and Iguanas are deffinatly affecting Florida. I am going to look into this alittle more just for my own good. It was a stupid post, I think I mainly typed it out of anger after reading the bill again and too many glasses of wine and thought hmmmm....what harm would my ball pythons do in the wild if it came down to that. Bottom line is I would not want the goverment or anybody else trying to take my animals away because they are illegal.

Stupid post and I appologize.

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Originally Posted by Dizzlen07

Yes, Burms and Iguanas are deffinatly affecting Florida. I am going to look into this alittle more just for my own good. It was a stupid post, I think I mainly typed it out of anger after reading the bill again and too many glasses of wine and thought hmmmm....what harm would my ball pythons do in the wild if it came down to that. Bottom line is I would not want the goverment or anybody else trying to take my animals away because they are illegal.

Stupid post and I appologize.

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No need to apologize. :) Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And psshhhh too much wine? Isn't a glass a wine suppose to be good for you....so what will 4,5,8 extra glasses hurt? :P

Ok, releasing snakes into the wild is the most irresponsible thing you could ever do with your snakes, no matter where you live.

As for the bill. The government will take my pets from my cold dead hands. My animals are my children and I will fight them every day of my life if this bill passes. I'm so tired of all these idiotic bills being introduced. I'm tired of the government always sticking their nose in our business. People should never fear their government. The government should fear the people. :taz:

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Originally Posted by Dizzlen07

I knew many wouldn't agree but no big deal. But answer this.

Say you have 50 plus ball pythons and make an average income with your full time job. How do you feed these ball pythons if this bill passes.

What do the full time breeders do if this passes?

And I should have phrased that alittle better. I'm not talking about huge snakes that do pose a threat to wildlife but smaller snakes/lizards.

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Thats exactly what they expect us to do (killing them that is). You have to understand that the people proposing this bill arent interested in the human factor of these actions only the impact that said animal have on the environment. In other words they dont give a hoot about us and just want our animals completely gone from the country. If they have to ruin thousands of lives in the process and put who knows how many thousands of people out of work they really dont care. As long as they get their way they are happy. God I love all the bureaucratic BS in this country.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Dizzlen, here is an example of how big of an impact a non-native species can have on our ecology.

Believe it or not....earthworms are not native to America. They came from Europe and Asia. Well, here in Minnesota without worms, fallen leaves decompose slowly, creating a spongy layer of organic "duff." This duff layer is the natural growing environment for native woodland wildflowers. It also provides habitat for ground-dwelling animals and helps prevent soil erosion.

Invading earthworms eat the leaves that create the duff layer and are capable of eliminating it completely. Big trees survive, but many young seedlings perish, along with many ferns and wildflowers. Some species return after the initial invasion, but others disappear. In areas heavily infested by earthworms, soil erosion and leaching of nutrients may reduce the productivity of forests and ultimately degrade fish habitat. [mndnr]

So...you can see the impact a tiny earthworm can have on an entire forrest and it's ecology, effect even fish.

Now imagine what is happening to the florida ecology with the Burms and Iguanas roaming freely?

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all the more reason to root for the little guys - Dekay's brown snake... my favorite colubrid!

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

People should never fear their government. The government should fear the people. :taz:

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Well said but thats would only be the case in a true democratic nation. Which to me seems like we are drifting further and further away from every year with the taking of more and more of our constitutionally given rights...... Oh wait not rights I mean privileges. As the great George Carlin once said " right aren't rights if someone can take them away. They're privileges". :salute::salute:

I never said I didnt sent out an email letter! never did I say this.. I voiced my opinion on this bill and how it will NOT pass.

I am kinda dissapointed that I voiced my opinion, and thoughts on how this bill cant possibly pass due to pet stores plundering and people losing millions of dollars and I get labeled as the bad guy who didnt support his community by sending letters and making his voice heard.. I never once said I did not voice my opinion against the idiots who created the bill in the first place!

one of the reasons this bill is hogwash and will never pass is because of us. The reason I made my initial reply is because I see this happen.... every.... damn.... year.....

a new bill is created to doom our hobby and love for the animal kingdom in some way.. and it never happends.. yet people keep wasting their time with trying to get something to pass... im just fed up with hearing about it and having to deal with it u know?

I never wanted to be the bad guy here lol.. just letting everyone know that .. like I said.. IMO.. this isnt gunna happen man :]

I agree i dont think it will happen. That doesnt mean im not concerned about the possibility of it passing. And i have also taken action and have done my part in helping it so it wont pass.

So say it does pass. Say they take everyones reptiles, what are they going to do? Along with making more people jobless, ending a multimillion dollar industry...etc they will have to pay to humanly put down every reptile in the U.S. This is just me but if they take my reptiles im not going to be the one paying to put them down. When i say that i won't pay to put that down i am putting my love for my reptiles aside for my anger towards the government.

also, look at the studies that have been done to show the effect pets have on people. Basicly all good effects. So they take away pets and americans will get more stressed and add the overweight problem we already have.

There are many more effects that this will have other than the ones that have already been stated.

Thats just more of my opinion on this idiotic bill

Matt

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Originally Posted by Tyler_Royality

I never said I didnt sent out an email letter! never did I say this.. I voiced my opinion on this bill and how it will NOT pass.

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Why would any reasonable person be expected to believe that someone who goes on a public forum and posts that HR699 will not pass is actually taking the time behind the scenes to send out correspondence to their representative in congress? People only know what you tell them ... you didn't say "HR669 will not pass, but even though I believe that I still sent an email to support the effort against it" ... you said "this bill and most others will never pass" and "I see nothing to worry about".

No one called you a bad guy ... but it is my opinion that it's certainly less than responsible to post authoritatively on a public forum that HR669 will never pass and make no mention that even though you believe that you still emailed your representative. Many people read internet message boards and form opinions based on what is posted. If even one person read your post stating that it is your belief that HR669 will never pass and decided not to send an email because of it, your email was sent in vain.

These bills are now a reality of this hobby/business ... if not HR669, then the next one, or the one after that ... they will not stop ... ever ... all it will take is one time ... one time for each of us as individuals to be lazy, or complacent, or numb ... and we will ALL lose.

If everyone sent an email ... each and every time these things come up ... and after sending that email, they each got a friend to also send an email ... and instead of sitting back and saying that it will NEVER pass, those people stood up and said "it doesn't have a snow balls chance in hell of passing, but lets turn up the heat just to send a message", do you know what we would be? ... UNITED, STRONG, a real COMMUNITY of liked minded people keeping and breeding the animals that we love. Wouldn't that be better than just sitting back and saying that it will never happen?

Just my $.02 for whatever it's worth.

-adam

so what the hell was the point of this?? tell me i didnt just read through all that for nothing...its way past 9pm

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Originally Posted by Dizzlen07

A know alot may get upset about this post but I'm posting anyway. I am doing my part to help in the stance of it not passing.

But anyway, if this bill does pass. What the reptile community should do is release your reptile into the wild. If they want to screw us then screw them. We will make our reptiles Native in the United States.

If we don't release them into the wild, what are the the people with 20, 60, 100, 1000 and 5000 reptiles suppose to do with them. If they take away the hobby, how will we feed these animals without the income. Let me guess there going to want us to kill them all. Release them and let them try to thrive in the wild.

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I sincerely hope that you don't write to these people sharing your "brilliant" idea! :O

This basis that started this thread is gonna make me puke...I won't even mention the bill.

More government intrusion? Good God. It's grown so huge and unwiedly it can barely function effeciently as it is. "We're from the government and we're here to help." What a *bleeping* joke.

"You common people from the great 'un-washed' masses can't handle your banking correctly? Don't worry - we'll take it over. You common people from the great 'un-washed' masses can't handle your auto industry effectively? Don't worry - we'll take it over. You common people from the great 'un-washed' masses can't handle your pets correctly? Don't worry - we'll take it over."

The problem is, with the present administration I would definately look forward to being socialized and regulated to death with more "feel good" bills like this coming down the road by the truckload.

I WILL be contacting everyone on the list Tuesday and inform them to stop doing illegal narcotics behind closed door sessions and at high dollar luncheons and get real. This bill is not what anybody needs. It's rubbish. But seeing how Mrs. Napolitano is one of it's suppporters, it comes as no suprise.

Our founding fathers are no doubt rolling in their graves. We have had our rights intruded upon and trampled so often it's bills like this make Gilligan's Island look better and better.

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Originally Posted by mrmertz

I WILL be contacting everyone on the list Tuesday and inform them to stop doing illegal narcotics behind closed door sessions and at high dollar luncheons and get real. This bill is not what anybody needs. It's rubbish. But seeing how Mrs. Napolitano is one of it's suppporters, it comes as no suprise.

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Both Pijac and USARK have implored that people be RESPECTFUL when contacting these folks. State how it will impact you personally and how you feel it will impact the pet industry, but don't put them on the defensive by throwing insults at them.

They DO need to hear from each and every one of us - to know that we're out here and that we DO care about the outcome of this bill - but we need to do so without anger, rage and insults.

In a few days, there will be a link on Pijac's page that will allow you to click, add your name, and it will send out a form letter to all the members on that list. We need everyone who cares about the outcome of this bill to take five minutes out of their day to fill out the short form and hit send.

As I stated in my initial reply - there will be more details and information to be shared here when it's available.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Both Pijac and USARK have implored that people be RESPECTFUL when contacting these folks. State how it will impact you personally and how you feel it will impact the pet industry, but don't put them on the defensive by throwing insults at them.

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Naw rabernet, that was sarcasm. I know these people are elitist and must be handled differently than a 'regular Joe' who would suggest the same.

But I'm not being sarcastic when it doesn't suprise me that Napolitano is backing it.

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Originally Posted by Richard

...most rats we feeding to snakes is the common Brown Rat which is a native species to all of North America.

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Huh?

I saw responses saying how the brown rat is not indigenous to the US but I guess my response would be...

"...most rats I feeding to snakes is the common White Rat which is not native to the sewers of North America."

Either way, HR669 bites.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Why would any reasonable person be expected to believe that someone who goes on a public forum and posts that HR699 will not pass is actually taking the time behind the scenes to send out correspondence to their representative in congress? People only know what you tell them ... you didn't say "HR669 will not pass, but even though I believe that I still sent an email to support the effort against it" ... you said "this bill and most others will never pass" and "I see nothing to worry about".

-adam

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I understand you on this. And yea its my fault, and have nothing to feel disappointed about, After re-reading what I posted I didnt make it sound at all like I sent letters. my bad, sorry for any misinterprets

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I sincerely hope that you don't write to these people sharing your "brilliant" idea! :O

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Please, read all of my post. First off in what you quoted of me, I did say I already did my part of trying to help this thing not pass. Then, if you read later post, I said it was a stupid comment and I appologize. And I would NEVER give this "brilliant" idea to them.

Releasing your pets is inhumane. Why would you let them starve, or die of RI, or be mauled to death by a cat or dog, rather than euthanizing them humanely yourself?
That sort of thinking is just why people dump a dog in the desert rather than take them to a shelter. If the pet dies horribly and slowly and in pain.. well they don't see it happening, so they will be happy. Fido is running in the wild meeting chipmunks and happy bunnies. The reality is way different.
I know you said "Hey it's a bad idea, sorry", but everyone seemed to be concentrating on why it's bad for the environment, and not why it's also a horribly bad idea for the pet.
I would rather have my pets humanely euthanized than to let them go, or to let the government take them to euthanize them. But the government isn't going to take your pets, they'll just make sure you can't do anything but keep what you have, and add no more, and not get rid of any in any way. As all the reptile pets die off, then there will be no more to replace them, and eventually all will be gone.

I don't think anyone should be panicing and rushing around selling off collections and euthanizing their pets. But I do think we should all be very serious about fighting this so it DOESN'T come to that. If we don't do anything at all, then we have NO reason to whine when our rights are taken away.

I hear a lot about "coming to take our animals away" whenever this bill (or anything related to reptiles and lawmaking) comes up.... just to clarify for you guys:

"(f) Animals Owned Lawfully Prior to Prohibition of Importation- This Act and regulations issued under this Act shall not interfere with the ability of any person to possess an individual animal of any species if such individual animal was legally owned by the person before the risk assessment is begun pursuant to subsection (e)(3), even if such species is later prohibited from being imported under the regulations issued under this Act."

Just felt like randomly popping in to make sure you guys see that section.... however with that being said, also know I don't support this bill at all and will be speaking out against it... as others have put it, the idea is noble, but the execution is all wrong.