living together?

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

Telling me that I'm arguing with some high and mighty breeder is self explanatory, IMO. And read up on yearly breeding. See how healthy it is for a snake, lol.

Personal experience also. I kept two red tail males together because I had a HUGE enclosure for them. Had two warm sides, two cool sides. Hide logs, plenty of cypress mulch for them to burrow under if they wanted. Multiple water dishes. It was BEAUTIFUL.

Neither showed any signs of aggression towards me previous to them co-habitating. They refused food. They would shed in tons of little pieces, and I was pretty ridiculous about the humidity and temps. They would also strike at me, hiss at me, and just be plain old MEAN. I separated them and they are both eating every 12 days (my feeding schedule) and they're actually healthier loooking.

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That is your problem there. Never house 2 males together. I even said...my pair I house together is 1.1

NEVER house males together, no matter how large the enclosure is.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

They could possibly have been living on the cardboard box I brought the rats home in. But I had rats and a box from a petstore. I touched my purse, the rats, the box, and drove home. After that, I switched to f/t and never had an issue again.

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Okay, so we have come to the conclusion. Your mites were rather from the store itself, not the rodent. So it can't be used as a reasonable threat since many thousands of people buy live rodents from pet stores weekly with no infestation of snake mites.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Can you bring this source for yearly breeding into this convo? I would love to read up on that myself, since not all sources are created equal.

So you will gladly admit that you have not had that same experience with carpets then? Can you also admit that perhaps what didn't work for you, can work for someone else?

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After one bad experience with my redtails, I wasn't stupid enough to make that mistake. Gimme some time to dig up some articles on healthy breeding for snakes and I'll post them.

And no, I won't admit it will work for someone else. What part of "snakes do not cohabitate together in the wild" do you not understand? Snakes are solitary animals. As I said, it's our job to re-create a natural setting for an exotic animal. There is no domesticating a snake. Housing multiple snakes in one enclosure is not natural.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Okay, so we have come to the conclusion. Your mites were rather from the store itself, not the rodent. So it can't be used as a reasonable threat since many thousands of people buy live rodents from pet stores weekly with no infestation of snake mites.

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There's no guranteeing that the mites weren't from the bedding the rats were in either. The store pulls the bedding OFF the shelf that mites could have laid nests in. The rats could have carried the eggs in on their fur into my house. Who knows? Nothing is impossible with mites.

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

That is your problem there. Never house 2 males together. I even said...my pair I house together is 1.1

NEVER house males together, no matter how large the enclosure is.

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Thanks for pointing that out.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

Thanks for pointing that out.

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No problem! We are here to help! :gj:

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

After one bad experience with my redtails, I wasn't stupid enough to make that mistake. Gimme some time to dig up some articles on healthy breeding for snakes and I'll post them.

And no, I won't admit it will work for someone else. What part of "snakes do not cohabitate together in the wild" do you not understand? Snakes are solitary animals. As I said, it's our job to re-create a natural setting for an exotic animal. There is no domesticating a snake. Housing multiple snakes in one enclosure is not natural.

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LOL, I understand what you are saying, I do not agree with this finality of your statements, as if you have had experience following each species of snakes in the wild, and can say with such authority that NO snakes are ever found in the same habitat at the same time.

They are not social animals, and I understand the points you're trying to make, however I do not agree with your attitude of telling others that the ways they have been keeping their animals is wrong, when they have a long history with working with the species.

It's unconventional, and may not be for a novice keeper, however Jerhart and Colin Vestrand are not novices, they are weathered carpet keepers and know a thing or two when it comes to keeping and breeding carpets.

To stand on a soapbox and tell them they are wrong, when clearly you do NOT have any of the same experience working with the animals... :weirdface

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

LOL, I understand what you are saying, I do not agree with this finality of your statements, as if you have had experience following each species of snakes in the wild, and can say with such authority that NO snakes are ever found in the same habitat at the same time.

They are not social animals, and I understand the points you're trying to make, however I do not agree with your attitude of telling others that the ways they have been keeping their animals is wrong, when they have a long history with working with the species.

It's unconventional, and may not be for a novice keeper, however Jerhart and Colin Vestrand are not novices, they are weathered carpet keepers and know a thing or two when it comes to keeping and breeding carpets.

To stand on a soapbox and tell them they are wrong, when clearly you do NOT have any of the same experience working with the animals.

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Then get off yours and stop telling me what experience I have. Thanks for playing!

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

There's no guranteeing that the mites weren't from the bedding the rats were in either. The store pulls the bedding OFF the shelf that mites could have laid nests in. The rats could have carried the eggs in on their fur into my house. Who knows? Nothing is impossible with mites.

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No, snake mites adhere to the surface they are laid on, it is extremely unlikely for the rat to "pick up" the eggs in the manner you imply. That is one of the reasons mite eggs are so hard to get rid of, because how well they stick to surfaces.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

Then get off yours and stop telling me what experience I have. Thanks for playing!

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You said yourself you do not have experience with carpets. So... I can only repeat what you type here today. :gj:

Connie~
I have to say...I thought you were the asf gal...but you sure know your mites! :)

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

And no, I won't admit it will work for someone else. What part of "snakes do not cohabitate together in the wild" do you not understand?

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snakes I have seen cohabitating in the "wild":

garter snakes
ribbon snakes
rattlesnakes
copperheads
cottonmouths

This thread is going so fast. Just to stand up for myself here, I contributed to the start of this (page 2 I believe). It said do not house males together and I believe in one tank per animal. However, that's not the answer you're looking for. Please use google and dig us up some hard facts over your personal opinion.(unless you want to email me a copy of your PHD) You're rambling like a 14 year old who is always right no matter how wrong you are.

Need I really post the dead horse again, gang?

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

You said yourself you do not have experience with carpets. So... I can only repeat what you type here today. :gj:

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I have two carpets actually. I just don't have them housed together.

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Originally Posted by fattielumpkin

snakes I have seen cohabitating in the "wild":

garter snakes
ribbon snakes
rattlesnakes
copperheads
cottonmouths

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and none of them are boas or pythons. Good point.

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Originally Posted by DavidG

This thread is going so fast. Just to stand up for myself here, I contributed to the start of this (page 2 I believe). It said do not house males together and I believe in one tank per animal. However, that's not the answer you're looking for. Please use google and dig us up some hard facts over your personal opinion.(unless you want to email me a copy of your PHD) You're rambling like a 14 year old who is always right no matter how wrong you are.

Need I really post the dead horse again, gang?

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And ypu're using lame insults in an attempt to make a point. Good going.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

who are you to tell me I DON'T know anything?

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:colbert:
i never said that... i merely insinuated that you shouldn't be telling ANYONE else that they don't know anything. :gj:

What waste of thread space. Just thought I'd throw my useless post on top of the pile with the others in here. :D

Just to keep things on topic, I'll ramble off a few things that I know -- things that can be checked up on and that are based on fact.

I know Will Bird houses multiple carpets together. I know he has years upon years of experience, professionally and on his own time. And I'd be willing to bet he's probably forgotten more about the habits and actions of carpet pythons than most of the people in this thread could possibly hope to know.

While I don't know Colin too well, I do know if there's one thing Colin knows, it's carpets. I'd bet one of the three big breeders he mentioned was Will Bird.

I can't say I know Jerhart. At all. But he seems to know his stuff, and Colin backs him up as knowing his stuff. See how that works? When someone has a good reputation, and backs someone else, chances are whoever they're backing knows what they are talking about.

I don't know who Whiffa is. From the tone of his/her posts, don't really care to. Reminds me a lot of Pee Wee Herman to be honest. When ever someone brings up a valid opposing argument, instead of making any kind of sensible post, just returns with the equivalent of "I know you are but what am I!" Hate to break it to you Whiffa, but you DON'T know everything. Regardless of what experience you may or may not have. There will always be more to know, and it really is impossible to know EVERYTHING. As far as you never witnessing any pythons or boas co-habiting in the wild, just how many have you seen in the wild? How many expeditions have you gone on that you can say with such certainty that you will NEVER find any "getting along" in the wild?

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

What waste of thread space. Just thought I'd throw my useless post on top of the pile with the others in here. :D

Just to keep things on topic, I'll ramble off a few things that I know -- things that can be checked up on and that are based on fact.

I know Will Bird houses multiple carpets together. I know he has years upon years of experience, professionally and on his own time. And I'd be willing to bet he's probably forgotten more about the habits and actions of carpet pythons than most of the people in this thread could possibly hope to know.

While I don't know Colin too well, I do know if there's one thing Colin knows, it's carpets. I'd bet one of the three big breeders he mentioned was Will Bird.

I can't say I know Jerhart. At all. But he seems to know his stuff, and Colin backs him up as knowing his stuff. See how that works? When someone has a good reputation, and backs someone else, chances are whoever they're backing knows what they are talking about.

I don't know who Whiffa is. From the tone of his/her posts, don't really care to. Reminds me a lot of Pee Wee Herman to be honest. When ever someone brings up a valid opposing argument, instead of making any kind of sensible post, just returns with the equivalent of "I know you are but what am I!" Hate to break it to you Whiffa, but you DON'T know everything. Regardless of what experience you may or may not have. There will always be more to know, and it really is impossible to know EVERYTHING. As far as you never witnessing any pythons or boas co-habiting in the wild, just how many have you seen in the wild? How many expeditions have you gone on that you can say with such certainty that you will NEVER find any "getting along" in the wild?

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Well as long as you want to keep the thread on topic and blatantly attempt to call me out, isn't that... something like.. trolling? or against TOS? Seems like it is.

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Originally Posted by Whiffa

Well as long as you want to keep the thread on topic and blatantly attempt to call me out, isn't that... something like.. trolling? or against TOS? Seems like it is.

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Isn't that what you've been doing this whole thread? Calling people out? :confused:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Isn't that what you've been doing this whole thread? Calling people out? :confused:

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Agreed. sure looks like it to me.

Sorry to revive an old thread...

I was just having a discussion with the reptile store owner about housing multiple snakes together (he's the one with a burm, a retic, a boa, and an anaconda all together)... then, I remembered this thread.

So, let me understand this... you can house multiple carpets together but you can't house multiple bp's together?

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Originally Posted by anatess

Sorry to revive an old thread...

I was just having a discussion with the reptile store owner about housing multiple snakes together (he's the one with a burm, a retic, a boa, and an anaconda all together)... then, I remembered this thread.

So, let me understand this... you can house multiple carpets together but you can't house multiple bp's together?

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From my understanding, the argument is that carpets do not fight for dominance, hiding spot, or heat sources, and ball pythons do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by anatess

Sorry to revive an old thread...

I was just having a discussion with the reptile store owner about housing multiple snakes together (he's the one with a burm, a retic, a boa, and an anaconda all together)... then, I remembered this thread.

So, let me understand this... you can house multiple carpets together but you can't house multiple bp's together?

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If you read the whole thread, it is pointed out that Jerhart's and others animals are breeding animals and kept together year round because, in their experience, the animals are more acclimated with each other and breeding is more successful.

I don't want to come off like I am suggesting carpet keepers should keep them together as default, but that it is an advanced technique that has been shown to work for some keepers and shouldn't be automatically disregarded as completely incorrect.

I also want to point out that comparing and using a carpets personality, habits and mannerisms when kept together as a reason to keep ball pythons together is faulty logic at best. Ball python care should be issued on it's own merits. :gj:

This argument has been tossed around here as long as I've been a member........I've seen a couple of people called out hard for doing it...........

While I have no experience with morelia, I do have experience with antaresia (stimsons, maccies, childreni and perthensis). Given a big enough enclsoure, I house 1.1 pairs together. I've been doing it for years and never had a problem. It can complicate some aspects of record keeping but providing that the proper husbandry considerations are given, it's not a big deal.

Would I recommend it to someone who just got a pair of childreni and is new to the species? No. There are too many things that need to be considered - these things have been touched upon in this thread - separation during feeding time, providing large enough basking and hides spots, providing a large enough enclosure, making sure that the animals are properly quarantined and cleared of potential pathogens before introduction, etc, etc.

Making a blanket statement that you can never house any snakes together period is incorrect. It holds for some species but not others. It's mainly dependent on the experience of the keeper and the adherance to proper husbandry practices.