Need some perspective (gore)

that snake is probably going to have to be put down.

BTW Connie Wayne Beasley is the freakin' man! Very good referral!

sorry guys and gals my thoughts on this are not appropriate for this site, well that is unless someone wants to give a green light to it (just for this thread)

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Originally Posted by nixer

sorry guys and gals my thoughts on this are not appropriate for this site, well that is unless someone wants to give a green light to it (just for this thread)

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I agree; which is why I've been holding back my tongue since I first saw this and her amazing photography skills:gj:

I hate to say it but I think the animal should be humanely put down. But that is only my opinion.

i have to agree, this is one that needs to be put down. i'm no vet, but even if you manage to keep infection out, the damage looks to be too extensive, and keeping infection out is a BIG if. i hate to look at it from a financial point of view, but you also have to consider how much it will cost to keep it alive and to heal it. everyone has their own limit in that regard, but this looks to be past mine.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I know of at least one very good SNAKE vet in lansing.
S. Wayne Beasley
Cedar Creek Vet
2295 N. Williamston Rd
Williamston 48895
517-655-4906

http://www.herpvetconnection.com/

http://www.anapsid.org/vets/#vetlist

http://www.arav.org/usmembers.htm

If I could, I would drive down to get this animal from her, but I do have to work during the day.
Has anyone given her the list of vets?

http://www.anapsid.org/vets/mich.html

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From what I have read she doesnt believe in vets. She thinks the snake isnt in pain.. It doesnt seem like it. and it moves without problem. I have had rescues. There comes a time when you have to see what quality the animal has. I am from Mi as well. From what I have found not so far from her. But I seriously, even though she says she wants to, dont think she has an intention of getting rid of it.
There a couple types of rescuers in the world. Those who do it for the love of the animal and those who do it for the glory..

Well, I finally got to vent over at the constrictors forum. Looks like there will likely be one less forum for me to visit. This whole thing makes me sick. I cannot believe the idiocy.



~Kat

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Originally Posted by janeothejungle

Well, I finally got to vent over at the constrictors forum. Looks like there will likely be one less forum for me to visit. This whole thing makes me sick. I cannot believe the idiocy.



~Kat

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You're definitely not alone, darlin'. Thank you for trying to bang her head against a wall.

wow... if u see the rest of the pics it will break ur heart :tears: here i thought the pic posted on here was a bad one... poor thing :tears:

I hate what low-rent animal hoarders are capable of.

Now I have to go see the trail of destruction that Kat left on the other forum...

Bruce

It's like I suddenly have tourettes when I visit that thread. That silly, stupid woman makes me want to be physically violent. It's a good thing there are 3,000 miles between us or I'd be camped on her doorstep.


~Kat

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Originally Posted by janeothejungle

It's like I suddenly have tourettes when I visit that thread. That silly, stupid woman makes me want to be physically violent. It's a good thing there are 3,000 miles between us or I'd be camped on her doorstep.


~Kat

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I feel similarly.

I;ve done everything i can to find the address but it's just not happening. I've pinned it to a guy named Pat who works occasionally at Unleaded Racing Tech in MI. He lives in Taylor. Hopefully with some help we can pin him down using the IP address that they probably both posted from on the other forum.

This sucks so much.

They said they're taking it to the vet. I said "prove it".

We'll see.

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Originally Posted by Morphie

They said they're taking it to the vet. I said "prove it".

We'll see.

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Why would it matter? If the vet tells them the snake needs to be put down, then she'll walk out.

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Originally Posted by V1L3 DiaL3cT

BTW Connie Wayne Beasley is the freakin' man! Very good referral!

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The man knows his stuff! I don't mind the hour and half drive to see him, he won me over the second we met him.

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Originally Posted by Morphie

I am pretty angry about something, which means I am probably not seeing things clearly. I would like some of the folks here with tabula rasa to review the situation and tell me if I'm being unreasonable.

The following photo is of a snake that is currently in the condition depicted in the photograph:

http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/r...s/DSC01087.jpg

The person who has this snake now claims to have "rescued it from the freezer" - as in a guy at a petshop left a rat in with this snake and was going to freeze it when he discovered her in this condition. The "rescuer" took the snake home and has rinsed her wounds with betadine, but not taken the snake to the vet for pain meds, ABs, or any other kind of evaluation or treatment. The list of excuses for this is a mile long. She is online asking strangers for treatment advice but completely ignores calls for the animal to be taken to the hospital. :rage:

Is it just me or is this... abhorrent beyond belief? Am i just being emotive? Should this snake just... be allowed to try to heal itself with no treatment or pain meds? I just can't get over that someone would allow an animal to suffer like this. I said in a fit of anger that i'd like to call animal control on this person, and they offered their address so i could do it. I am afraid AC would laugh at me if i did it, and it would be horribly awkward all the while "hi, i was online and someone was being mean to a snake". like... wtf.

Please tell me i'm not crazy :confused::rolleye2:

What, if anything, can i do?? I am so upset...

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Exactly why I NOW feed frozen when you get to jumbo size the rats become a threat! That is so sad.:tears: Hopfully it can make a full recovery.

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Originally Posted by scales owner

Exactly why I NOW feed frozen when you get to jumbo size the rats become a threat! That is so sad.:tears: Hopfully it can make a full recovery.

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Please forgive me if I come off of as rude, but I feed live and I've never encountered something anywhere near that in my wildest dreams. That picture depicts what NOT to do when feeding life. That picture depicts neglect upon the owner's part. That doesn't depict what normally happens. If done properly, snakes stand a very minimal chance of even getting bit while feeding live. What this owner did was neglectful, and what the girl who's currently in possession of this poor animal is doing is also neglectful.

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Originally Posted by janeothejungle

It's like I suddenly have tourettes when I visit that thread. That silly, stupid woman makes me want to be physically violent. It's a good thing there are 3,000 miles between us or I'd be camped on her doorstep.


~Kat

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You are not alone.

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Originally Posted by Melicious

Please forgive me if I come off of as rude, but I feed live and I've never encountered something anywhere near that in my wildest dreams. That picture depicts what NOT to do when feeding life. That picture depicts neglect upon the owner's part. That doesn't depict what normally happens. If done properly, snakes stand a very minimal chance of even getting bit while feeding live. What this owner did was neglectful, and what the girl who's currently in possession of this poor animal is doing is also neglectful.

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That is the what burns me most about this. Foolio says her pictures were taken to document the effects of live feeding.

She is holding this snake hostage and denying it medical care as a means of promoting her own agenda and to maintain power and control.

That is not typical of live feeding. You do not feed jumbo rats to BPs.

I am with Kat on this. Except my thoughts are more along the line of what if someone flayed this person to the bone, carved out a few vertebrae and then left her to wallow in her own urine and feces... would she beg for medical help. What if she did not have a voice. I mean she can drag herself around and move a bit, so I guess she is OK?

Bruce

SOMEBODY PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO SOMETHING!
I'm in Florida. Is there anything I can do? This snake needs to go to the vet. I completely understand her reasoning for not wanting to put him down. If I found this snake, I would feel I have to do everything in my power to help the snake without putting him down. I'm not a vet, so I cannot tell if the snake can recover or not. I understand there are a lot of you who feel the freezer route is the best route, but really, I would rather a highly qualified vet make that decision. But leaving the snake as it is SHOULD NOT BE AN OPTION!!!
If she can't afford the vet, I'll set up a collection. There are several people who would forego lunch to donate the lunch money. I'm sure of it!
I feel helpless here...

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Originally Posted by anatess

SOMEBODY PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO SOMETHING!
I'm in Florida. Is there anything I can do? This snake needs to go to the vet. I completely understand her reasoning for not wanting to put him down. If I found this snake, I would feel I have to do everything in my power to help the snake without putting him down. I'm not a vet, so I cannot tell if the snake can recover or not. I understand there are a lot of you who feel the freezer route is the best route, but really, I would rather a highly qualified vet make that decision. But leaving the snake as it is SHOULD NOT BE AN OPTION!!!
If she can't afford the vet, I'll set up a collection. There are several people who would forego lunch to donate the lunch money. I'm sure of it!
I feel helpless here...

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HELLO!! Why does everyone think that the Reptile community is a bunch of suckers? Everyone and their friends has a hand out. I would not send this (insert preferred term here) one single penny.

After what she has shown herself to be, we have no guarantee that she would even use it for the snake!!:colbert:

Someone has already offered to pay for the vet to have it euthanized - she rejected that option.

Instead, she has decided to delete all of her posts and act like everyone in the world but her is Just Stupid.

I wrote to her local animal control claiming that I had some concerns about a neglected animal, offering to send photos, their IP address (we've confirmed that she and Mr_Pat live together) as well as the name of their ISP and the name of the town they live in. It will take a court order to get more information than that, i think :(

We'll see what the AC says. I'm feeling pretty defeated.

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Originally Posted by Morphie

Someone has already offered to pay for the vet to have it euthanized - she rejected that option.

Instead, she has decided to delete all of her posts and act like everyone in the world but her is Just Stupid.

I wrote to her local animal control claiming that I had some concerns about a neglected animal, offering to send photos, their IP address (we've confirmed that she and Mr_Pat live together) as well as the name of their ISP and the name of the town they live in. It will take a court order to get more information than that, i think :(

We'll see what the AC says. I'm feeling pretty defeated.

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Wonder if it would be possible to match up that IP against NataLIE's? May not be her, but I am curious.

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Originally Posted by broadude

Wonder if it would be possible to match up that IP against NataLIE's? May not be her, but I am curious.

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I don't have NataLIE's - but if you can get it, i have theirs.

(i don't think they're the same - Jlynn, as much of a moron as she is, handled the situation on CU 100,000,000x more eloquently than did NataLIE on Fauna - it's unlikely that a change that big occurred in such a short span of time).

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Originally Posted by Morphie

I don't have NataLIE's - but if you can get it, i have theirs.

(i don't think they're the same - Jlynn, as much of a moron as she is, handled the situation on CU 100,000,000x more eloquently than did NataLIE on Fauna - it's unlikely that a change that big occurred in such a short span of time).

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You are probably right. The similarities are purely superifical.:gj:

Michigander here! :)

Anyway, I'll be willing to help with whatever is needed. I don't have money but I do have access. Is there anything I could do to help out with this?

Wow, that's just unreal........ It's amazing that that animal is still alive but keeping it alive after sustaining injuries like that is just CRUEL and INHUMANE! I can't believe anyone could think that it's in the animals best interest to let it continue like that.
Obviously infection is going to set in unless that snake is kept in a 100% clean, germ free environment like friggin bubble boy which most VETs do NOT have set up. Then having that snake die slowly as infections take over her body..... It's disgusting. I really do hope that they are taking it to the vet tomorrow as they said and I hope they listen when he tells these numbskulls to have her put down. At that point it's the only thing that can be done and prolonging her life even by the few DAYS that they've been sitting with their thumbs up their asses is totally unacceptable.

Keep us updated please Morphie

This makes me SO mad... Morphie and Kat I aplaud you both for saying something. This lady is an idiot, I cant even begin to say how much I want to say. Mr. Pat keeps saying that the vets do not have the right equipment to save this poor snake, so what the hell makes him think she can do it!

And to that forum, someone should write a complaint for alowing members to edit their posts after a reasonable period of time.

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Originally Posted by broadude

HELLO!! Why does everyone think that the Reptile community is a bunch of suckers? Everyone and their friends has a hand out. I would not send this (insert preferred term here) one single penny.

After what she has shown herself to be, we have no guarantee that she would even use it for the snake!!:colbert:

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Originally Posted by Morphie

Someone has already offered to pay for the vet to have it euthanized - she rejected that option.

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Okay, at the risk of getting 5 million hate mails, I'm going to stick my neck out there. I could be completely off-base here, but I have a feeling I'm not...

The way I understand this is, she is not opposed to the snake getting treated. My understanding is that she is trying to get help from the herp community to figure out ways to treat this snake without taking it to the vet. And that is because, SHE IS SURE, that if she takes the snake to the vet, the vet will EUTHANIZE it. And that is simply an option that she will not take.

Okay, for the record, if a reputable vet tells me that the best thing for my animals is to get it euthanized, then I will be all for it. But, if my kids' pediatrician will tell me that the best thing for my kids is to euthanize them I will fight them tooth and nail to the grave. So, if I just try to see things in her perspective, I can understand that she is not looking at this snake as an animal but as a human being (like the kids in my example). You can agree to disagree with her on that particular philosophy but you can't completely say she is wrong. Because, I do still believe that she cares for this snake, she just has a few gears in her brain that are wired differently from most pet owners.

Take for example that incident here in Florida where a woman stayed alive because of the machines (feeding tube, breathing tube, etc. etc.). Her husband wants to take her off the machines and let her die peacefully, her parents fought all the way to congress to keep her on the machines. Now, to be honest, I'm with the parents. But, at the same time, I can understand the logic behind taking her off of the machines. So, replace parents here with this snake "rescuer", replace the woman with the snake... and you got a similar situation. This is just the way she is thinking right now. I cannot judge her for this. But, what she is forgetting with all these emotions going around, is that the snake remains untreated without vet care because of her anti-euthanisia stance!

So, really people, we cannot convince her to change her philosophy on it. That is what she believes. We can argue with her until we're blue. She will not budge and the snake continues to suffer.

What we can do, is help her find a vet who will guarantee to treat the animal and KEEP IT ALIVE. That is the only way she will budge and the snake gets HELP! If she will hesitate on this because of the cost, that is what I offered above. I will set up a collection and see what we can raise and make sure it goes to the vet.

Who knows, this can be just like that post here where a bp.net member stitched up his snake's heart instead of just throwing it in the freezer and the snake is saved...

But, I think, more than likely, this girl will have to face facts sooner rather than later, that to keep this animal alive will cost a ton of money that she can't afford unless, of course, she goes her regular route of letting "nature take its course"...

Sigh.

The critical element here is that she has not taken it to a vet... she will have the say as to whether or not it gets euthanized. So she is refusing medical care for an animal the desperately needs it.

If the only thing the vet could do would be to minimize its suffering, then so be it.

But this arrogant fool is doing nothing to it. That equates to animal cruelty.

And if she is so certain that ANY vet will euthanize it, then she knows that it is beyond repair.

Bruce

Another reason she may have disappeared is that it is likely that the snake has died in her care...

I did'nt read the thread at the other forum... but here is my take on a what may be going on here:

She's a PETA nut who thinks feeding rats to snakes is cruel and she wants to point out what MIGHT happen to somehow make us not feed rats... the snake may not even be in her possession. She could just have pictures of it, and it is already "in the freezer".

All that is hypothetical of course... maybe my brain just can't wrap itself around a situation in which someone would be so cruel to an animal.

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Originally Posted by gothkenny

Michigander here! :)

Anyway, I'll be willing to help with whatever is needed. I don't have money but I do have access. Is there anything I could do to help out with this?

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Me too. I offered since I couldnt get more info to send pics to my vet and get opinions on what they would recommend as treatment. I would doubt they would recommend a treatment but I offered to cover the vet bill if that is what was needed even though I dont have a ton extra due to the time of year. Been talking to Morphie since it started..
I do not think she intends on getting rid of the snake. nor does she truly want help.. She wanted the pats on the back for rescuing.

Out of control! I really cant believe this.

I tried really hard to be civil to her about what needed to be done the the snake. I spoke the the vet I work for today and showed him the pics. He said that if the snake was taken to the vet before infection set in it could be saved. He could not comment on if the snake had proper motor skills still since he did not examine the animal.

The point is the snake doesn't have the be put down but it does need medical attention if it is going to live. I tried to giver her info on a vet close to her so she could take it in and I tried to inform her of payment options that exist for vet bills. I don't think she even bothered to read my posts.

This is so sad...
At one point I can understand the girl, I would also want to help the creature hurt so bad, but....
Everything has been said, if a human being would have been hurt that bad, he would get the best available medical treatment by professionals.
If she is that sure, there is no proper vet in her area, she should be reasonable enough to see that the best way to prevent further suffering for that creature, is to let it die as fast and painless as possible, because she will never be able to heal it without professional help.
You would not put a guy with an open spine in your garage and treat it yourself, because you think your local doc is an nerd...

On the other hand, i am sure, if she manages it to get this poor thing on track again, there will be a lot of cheering and applause on all the forums... on the back of the poor creature... my 2 ct on hypocracy

There is plenty of good vets within an hour of her. I gave her mine last night that is about 45 minutes from her. and they come recommended by everyone. I havent heard one person with unpleasent things to say about them. I have not heard yet on weather the snake made it there yet today. And am somehow doubting I will hear

I WOULD never doubt there are able and good vets in her area for sure, but I doubt she is able to see...
I guess she took the snake with a good will and now is overwhelmed by the descision she has to make...
Invest a lot of $ with an uncertain outcome or to decide to end the pain on her own...

AAAAHHHHH. This dumb ____ twit and her alter ego (who share the same IP, btw), have now taken the same story to a different forum, only now they are pretending it 'just happened' and they were 'called in to help'. See the BS for yourself......

http://www.reptileforums.com/forums/...ad.php?t=52221

I ranted on the last forum, it's someone elses turn.

:rage::rage::rage::rage::rage::rage::rage::rage:

~Kat

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Originally Posted by janeothejungle

AAAAHHHHH. This dumb ____ twit and her alter ego (who share the same IP, btw), have now taken the same story to a different forum, only now they are pretending it 'just happened' and they were 'called in to help'. See the BS for yourself......

http://www.reptileforums.com/forums/...ad.php?t=52221

I ranted on the last forum, it's someone elses turn.

:rage::rage::rage::rage::rage::rage::rage::rage:

~Kat

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Hand me the torch my dear, and I will.

Why ask for advice if you know what the advice will be, and then disagree???:confused:

Omg, wheter she is a "curse word" troll who got hand on some terrible pics or she is just **text removed by dr-del** without visiting a vet...
All her posting wont help the snake the slightest bit,

She doesn't want to help the snake. She wants people to pat her on the back and tell her what a great person she is.



She is now claiming it has been to the vet. Anyone seen proof of that?


~Kat

Sadly some people get into rescue just to get the attention.

Rescuing means having a good understanding that sometimes the best thing to do is euthanasia so the animal no longer suffers, she is obviously missing that point and only care about what SHE wants to do.

She is not into rescuing for the sake of the animals but to boost her ego. :rage: :mad: :rage: :mad: :rage: :mad:

I wonder if the next forum she posts a story on will be here? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Melicious

Hand me the torch my dear, and I will.

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You did VERY well too. :)

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Originally Posted by janeothejungle

She doesn't want to help the snake. She wants people to pat her on the back and tell her what a great person she is.



She is now claiming it has been to the vet. Anyone seen proof of that?


~Kat

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I just asked for it... I doubt it has happened... it would take seeing the snake on today's paper, with a copy of the vet bill for me to believe it.

She is a liar and that is not in doubt.

Bruce

I've been corresponding with her a little.

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Originally Posted by JLynn

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Originally Posted by Melicious

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Originally Posted by JLynn

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Originally Posted by Melicious

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Originally Posted by JLynn

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Originally Posted by Melicious

Alright, so what did the vet exactly?

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She gave me baytril, ceftazadime and metacam injections .... silvadene and avi soother ... along with chlorhesidine flush.

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And what did she say the chances of the animal surviving were?

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She didn't really say what the chances were, just that there was a chance because the wounds as of now are still not infected.

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Let's see how that turns out. Please keep me updated.

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No problem. She goes back for a check up in 7-10 days ... and thank you for finally seeing that I'm not an evil moron torturing a snake ... was just trying to get help, especially short term until I got ahold of a GOOD vet. And as it was I had a hard time getting her in, I actually ended up just showing up and sitting in the lobby until they would take me in.

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I'm in the process of ranting on that forum

looks like leaning on her helped, you guys. Thanks for all the support, and thanks to Melicious and Shadi11 for keeping in touch with her.

She's lucky this isn't fauna - she'd already be ripped apart.