My new asf colony

My question to you is if you are ready for the financial obligation of feeding them all. I have around 70 ball pythons with about 100 rats and mice as feeder colonies. I spend around $125 per week to feed and bed this realitively small colony. With the numbers you are talking you will have to sell a lot of asfs to offset the cost.

Could you do me a favor and not keep me updated on your rat breeding progress. Thanks

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Originally Posted by krup

Could you do me a favor and not keep me updated on your rat breeding progress. Thanks

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I believe this thread is about my asf rat colony so if you dont want any updates keep your nose out of it:gj:

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Originally Posted by FatBoy

My question to you is if you are ready for the financial obligation of feeding them all. I have around 70 ball pythons with about 100 rats and mice as feeder colonies. I spend around $125 per week to feed and bed this realitively small colony. With the numbers you are talking you will have to sell a lot of asfs to offset the cost.

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I already have multiple clients and pet stores lined up for sales everyweek. Not only that I worked a deal with a pet store where they supply me with food and bedding for rats. I have already thought about the cost to which is why I made these deals. Thanks

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Originally Posted by MDB

I already have multiple clients and pet stores lined up for sales everyweek. Not only that I worked a deal with a pet store where they supply me with food and bedding for rats. I have already thought about the cost to which is why I made these deals. Thanks

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WOW...I have had my rat colony for about 2 years and I see this pet store coming out on the short end of the stick. Like I said, I spend around $600/month on feed and bedding for my rats, I don't think we have any pet stores around here that sell that many rats in a month. Hopefully I am wrong...good luck.

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Originally Posted by FatBoy

WOW...I have had my rat colony for about 2 years and I see this pet store coming out on the short end of the stick. Like I said, I spend around $600/month on feed and bedding for my rats, I don't think we have any pet stores around here that sell that many rats in a month. Hopefully I am wrong...good luck.

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And I always have the option of selling f/t so If I do get overwhelmed I can freeze some of the population:gj:

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Originally Posted by MDB

...so If I do get overwhelmed...

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That couldn’t possibly happen. Could it?

If the snakes your selling doesn't fit into your breeding program this year why are you offering gravid girls for sale? Why did you breed them? How long have you owned snakes? I'll tell you almost every litter of rats we raise my wife or son will pick out their favorite and they get extra attention. My snakes are cold blooded but I am not COLD HEARTED!!!!

I have a feeling I know how this is going to end...

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Have you ever even seen or held an asf ?

I don't understand why everyone is getting carried away with this.:rolleye2: If he is going to supply them with water food and change there tubs every week what is the big deal? I don't know about you but I don't hold my rats and play with them I have them to breed for me nothing else! That and I don't keep any rats that aren't breeding I'm not going to pay to feed and water a rat if its not going to produce anything. Just my opinon;)

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Originally Posted by rocko2527

I don't understand why everyone is getting carried away with this.:rolleye2: If he is going to supply them with water food and change there tubs every week what is the big deal? I don't know about you but I don't hold my rats and play with them I have them to breed for me nothing else! That and I don't keep any rats that aren't breeding I'm not going to pay to feed and water a rat if its not going to produce anything. Just my opinon;)

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exactly, but there are many idiots on here that you can see, that believe if you dont do it their way its the wrong way. I enjoy getting sitting back and getting arise out of them. Sometimes I believe its because they have nothing better to do than trash other peoples threads.:)

I think its discusting how a harmless thread can be started with the best intentions and be completely turned into something that it is not. And then you have idiots, who point fingers like they know you and what your about. I want point fingers but you all know who you are, and Im sure you will respond to this and make it that more obvious. My point is if you dont like me and what Im about than dont read and comment my threads saying please no more updates on my current projects, if you dont like it than stay out rather than get your panties in a bunch. But like I said many of you are idiots with nothing better to do, rather than help somebody you would rather attack them and make false accusations.:gj:

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Originally Posted by MDB

I look at them as food. And their days are numbered sorry you dont feel the same way. But this is not a debate, and I am starting my colonies. Because I want to and its something I will enjoy doing, thanks.:gj:

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Yes they are food however they do deserve respect and proper care until they are being fed off

If you care about your snakes you should care about the animals you are raising as feeders as well.

Also from several of your posts you seem to make decisions on impulse which is why you can understand the concern of many member here that are just trying to help.

Here is an example of impulsive decision

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I am devastated right now, for he was my favorite snake almost like my best friend. I dont even know what to do with myself right now. I am considering selling all of my snakes off now, because he was what kept my interest everyday. This sucks.

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This does not only show are you make decision on impulse it also show that you can lose your interest rather quickly which again is concerning.

What will you do in a month or 2 when they escape, bite you or it does not work as plan and that the pet store will not buy all your ASF will your lose your interest too?

You know how you need to learn to walk before you can run well maybe you need to start small and see how you like it before you get such a large colony that will profiler VERY quickly and if you do get such a colony than you better have a solid plan and avenue to sell them.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Yes they are food however they do deserve respect and proper care until they are being fed off

If you care about your snakes you should care about the animals you are raising as feeders as well.

Also from several of your posts you seem to make decisions on impulse which is why you can understand the concern of many member here that are just trying to help.

Here is an example of impulsive decision

This does not only show are you make decision on impulse it also show that you can lose your interest rather quickly which again is concerning.

What will you do in a month or 2 when they escape, bite you or it does not work as plan and that the pet store will not buy all your ASF will your lose your interest too?

You know how you need to learn to walk before you can run well maybe you need to start small and see how you like it before you get such a large colony that will profiler VERY quickly and if you do get such a colony than you better have a solid plan and avenue to sell them.

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first off I will give them respect they deserve a constant supply of food, water, and a clean living quarters is respect.
secondly I was upset when I wrote that, and know I did not make any desicion on impulse I have been thinking for some time to sell off some of my collection that I do not need.
And last but not least I have many pet stores lined up already, and also some clients on the side, I sometimes think that you all forget that c02 chambers exist, and that f/t is an option. So no I will not have overwhelming numbers. I thank you though for confronting me in a good manner, and in return you got respect:)

So, do you see them as a living breathing creature?

Your past statements give the impression that you really didn't give an arse, because they were "just food".

My point was, if you can't see it for the living animal it is, what reason would there to be to treat them like a living breathing animal?

But, seeing as you have stated over and over again you do intend to provide humane and optimum conditions for these animal (that are living and breathing), then best of luck, I hope you do succeed.

I felt compelled to respond to the way you first replied, it was quite disconcerting.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

So, do you see them as a living breathing creature?

Your past statements give the impression that you really didn't give an arse, because they were "just food".

My point was, if you can't see it for the living animal it is, what reason would there to be to treat them like a living breathing animal?

But, seeing as you have stated over and over again you do intend to provide humane and optimum conditions for these animal (that are living and breathing), then best of luck, I hope you do succeed.

I felt compelled to respond to the way you first replied, it was quite disconcerting.

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I will treat them like living breathing creatures because that it was they are, a constant supply of food,water, and clean living quarters will be present 24/7. But to me they are food for my pets, they themselves are not my pets

Hmmm... I thought I was getting things going on a bit fast, owning two small breeding groups (1.1 ASF, not proven yet and 1.2 Mice with one preggo female) and just three snakes to feed, but this thread proves me wrong.
Just my 2 cents, I am living in a big city (3.8 Million people and counting) and there is simply no need for rodents, pet shops wont buy them and the ads are full of rats, gerbils, mice and asf of every kind, what does the thread opener expect to do with the thousands of asf pups he will be facing in the near future.
If he he wants to competete with the real big scale breeders in the f/t buisness, he will have to rent one or two seperate bulidings, to house the absurd amounts of animals he will need to make a little cash.
One or two petshop owners telling you " Yeaahh, man i will take sum...", aint no business plan...:(

Sorry for the rats, sincerly!

I can't really sell extras anyway all the pet shops want are mice & rats they don't even now what a asf is.they want your rodents for free won't pay for them because the breeders are selling to them for hardly nothing & they make a big profit seller to novice snake owners.

OP, I know I said I was done with this thread, but please consider this, as I feel it will really help you if you actually listen.

As everyone knows, I breed lots of ASF's and sell them to lots of folks. When I first started getting large numbers, I spoke to several local pet shops that were all interested in buying from me regularly. They all carried ASF's on and off and usually sold them for 5 - 7 dollars each.

A couple months passed, and when I had too many ASF's, I took them into the pet shops I had already spoken to. I almost puked when I went back to all these shops with lots of ASF's in a tub (All large I might add) and NONE of them were willing to pay any more then what they pay their regular supplier for ex breeder mice. That is $.50 OR LESS per large ASF!!!! Yes, even though they are selling them for 5 - 7 dollars, they would only give me 50 cents each! We are talking about LARGE ASF's that were a minimum of 4 months old.

Needless to say I didn't sell any to them. You simply will not make any money "selling to a few pet shops." In fact, you won't even break even when you factor in all the costs and time spent.

ONE more piece of advice. EVERYBODY wants them until you have them available and ready to go.

Glad to see, some EXPERIENCED breeders share my concerns...
This stuff sounds that easy, at first but these rodents wont be full grown and sellable from on second to the next, no way. Calculate your costs for food and bedding alone, not to mention the time you NEED to invest and think it over again.
Seperate the maybe 50 gals from da 50 boys, feed them to your snakes and dont make yourself sorry for owning around 5000 asf pups, without a chance to get rid of them in a couple of month!

The only thing they have going for them is in some places they are unavalible.most do not know what they are or even care to know only the BP community knows their true value!!

Not to mention if you go the F/T route, you have to make sure you have the proper equipment and supplies to ship and keep them frozen. Also, do you have the freezer capacity? F/T is not an easy answer to over population.

ASF's take a lot of time to raise up. That is a lot of food, bedding and care. If you can't get the price you want, you will lose your shirt. I wouldn't do this as a business unless you really know what you are doing. That goes for regular rats, mice or ASF's, as well.

He surely thought about it...
Seeling half thawed, half rotten feeders will give him a good name in the biz...
Sorry beer makes me sarcastic.

thank you FlowRock for your useful post:gj:

I was prepared to say a few nasty things but then I realized either you wont listen or you just don't care.

I was going to get a breeding group of 1.6 ASF's I was going to feed my BP's what I could and I was going to sell the rest to local pet shops and @ shows.

I realized that this was a foolish plan and I should just worry about what I got going. I am not going to make any money selling these little guys.

Please just slow down and breed what you can use and sell. If you are seeing a larger market then by all means please buy more. If you can make money at this great!!!! If you have time for this endeavor and your family then keep on trucking brother.

I wish you the best of luck in this! Please just think about the effects of what your doing.

Hi Matt,

I applaud you for trying to start up a business and having the determination to see it through. That is truly admirable. My father is a businessman and owns several businesses from bottle-washing to car rental. They all started from a "it would be really great if..." moment.

The only thing I really was hoping to see is your willingness to learn from the "been there, done that" guys. I can tell you FOR A FACT that Mike Cavanaugh has been in the ASF breeding business for a few years. I buy my ASFs from him and I will continue to do so. He is an excellent breeder with awesome customer service. There are several people on this forum that will vouch for him. And the great thing about Mike is, he TRULY, REALLY tries to help out as best he can. He helped me when I decided I want to breed a trio of ASFs. Think about this - if I breed my own, I will be one less customer from Mike... but guess what, he doesn't care about that. He just wants to give me a good start on my breeding project. So, he hooked me up with 1 male and 2 females - hand picked by Mike himself and sent me all kinds of information on enclosures, feed, substrate, and caresheets. That was on November 12... so, November 12, I had 3 virgin ASFs. Today, December 18, I have 22 little rats - 12 from 1 girl, 10 from another - who should be weaned in 2 weeks. And both females are pregnant again.

So, let me take that experience and apply it to your situation. You mentioned you have 75 rats plus 90 more coming... That's 165 rats total. So, let's say out of those, you have at least 100 females. Let's say each female drops 10 babies (they usually give more than that). 26 days from now, you will have 1,000 rats babies. Another 26 days from that, you will have 1,000 more and on and on. Realistically, you are probably going to have 1500 babies a month. Even counting the occasional breeding tub with bloody rat parts from Hannibal Lecter Rat Mommy. And, if you leave male/female weanlings together you will multiply this number like the compounding interest in your credit card...

Now, you said these are all for feeders. The people buying ASFs are ball python owners. Each ball python eats 1 ASF rat a week. So, you will need at least 250 ball pythons to service for your breeding colony. Look at your city and see how many ball pythons you think are within 100 miles from you. Don't count any ball pythons that are feeding from their own breeding colony. Then look at the number of commercial rat suppliers in your area to determine your market share. Okay, I'm sure you have done all this work. So, best of luck.

On the freezing. From my research, commercial breeders don't freeze rats and keep it frozen for months before selling. Usually, they get an order, they go to their rat rack, pick what they need, kill and freeze all within a day or two so that when it ships to the buyer, it is fresh and of good quality. People don't buy bulk frozen rats that have been sitting in the freezer for weeks when they will then have to keep it in their freezer for months more before they use it. So, that's not really a good solution to over-run. I'm thinking what will happen is, you will have to give away the rat to the pet store for free just to take it out of your hands.

So, this is why Mike Cavanaugh, et. al., adviced to start with a smaller group and see how it goes for a few months then after you have gauged the market and the rats are flying off the shelf like hot cakes, then buy 2,000 rats or whatever number you need to fill demand. Mike wouldn't dash your dreams just because he has nothing better to do than post stupid remarks on this forum.

Hope you read this super long post... I tend to run on and on and on...

Thank you I did read your whole post, yes the whole thing lol. I have decided to to put only a few trios together to start out with and seperate the rest of the males and females. After a month or two I will have more know how, and clientele. I thank all of you who have been kind and helped me. And for the ones who werent so nice, well use your imagination:gj:

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Originally Posted by MDB

Thank you I did read your whole post, yes the whole thing lol. I have decided to to put only a few trios together to start out with and seperate the rest of the males and females. After a month or two I will have more know how, and clientele. I thank all of you who have been kind and helped me. And for the ones who werent so nice, well use your imagination:gj:

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THAT'S GREAT!!! Really neat idea. :gj: Sounds like you have it good now! If you're like me, you will end up opening that rack a lot just to see what they're up to every, uhm, 5 minutes or so. :D They can be really addicting...

thank you

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Originally Posted by MDB

Thank you I did read your whole post, yes the whole thing lol. I have decided to to put only a few trios together to start out with and seperate the rest of the males and females. After a month or two I will have more know how, and clientele. I thank all of you who have been kind and helped me. And for the ones who werent so nice, well use your imagination:gj:

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:gj:

A good plan!!!

Once again I wish you luck. :D

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Originally Posted by MDB

Thank you I did read your whole post, yes the whole thing lol. I have decided to to put only a few trios together to start out with and seperate the rest of the males and females. After a month or two I will have more know how, and clientele. I thank all of you who have been kind and helped me.

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Now that is a good plan! :gj: :gj: :gj:

I look forward to personally doing my best to provide answers to the thousands of questions you will soon have. I certainly don't know it all, and look forward to learning things from you as well. You and I are much more alike then you think!

For the record, just a prediction... the whole not a pet, ony a feeder deal.... Wait until the first time that an ASF YOU produced grows up, and has her first litter. Wait until that day you walk in and see her brand new babies and she looks up at you with scared / unsure eyes as she nurses her new children.... From that point on, your feelings on this subject will change forever.

You'll see.

Sincerly,

Mike

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...deadhorse5.gif

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

For the record, just a prediction... the whole not a pet, ony a feeder deal.... Wait until the first time that an ASF YOU produced grows up, and has her first litter. Wait until that day you walk in and see her brand new babies and she looks up at you with scared / unsure eyes as she nurses her new children.... From that point on, your feelings on this subject will change forever.

You'll see.

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Awww Mike! You made me have this silly warm-fuzzy grin on my face... For me, though, it wasn't even the ASF I produced... it was the first time I saw those cute little fuzzballs in your car!

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Originally Posted by MDB

And last but not least I have many pet stores lined up already,

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I think that you're going to find that your pet stores aren't going to be buying a lot from you. My local pet store just got some, and he HATES them. He said they are mean (many do bite) and that he hasn't sold any of them, because none of his customers even know what they are. He plans to feed them off to the snakes he keeps in the store and be done with them.

Unless your petstores have a lot of clients who also are part of online communities, the general one or two snake keeper has no idea what an ASF is, nor is actively deciding to use them as feeders over rats and mice.

I don't think your pet stores will be selling them as well as they think they may and may make the decision that my pet store made, which is to wash their hands of them.

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Originally Posted by MDB

sounds like you all like to jump the gun to conclusions. Not one of you know me or anything about me, all I did was start a thread about how excited I am to start my colony, it may be a very large colony to start with but who are you to decide. I am not going to let your comments hinder my project for I feel that I will be good at breeding the asf rats, and am not expecting to make a million off of it, nor do I even expect to make a living. Some of you say that I have jumped the gun, maybe a little but I think alot of us have been guilty of this before. I have done alot of research on them, and I know the kind of care they require. I already have the racks(housing), feed, and substrate that they require, to give them a good healthy life. I am sorry that we obviously have different opinions of feeders, some of you have rats/mice as your pets. Im sorry but I look at them as feeders, they are rodents and they are here to serve one purpose to feed reptiles. I will treat them accordingly feeding,watering, and making sure that they always have a clean healthy tub. Many of you obviously already have your mind made up about me, and what Im about, so the only thing left to do is prove you wrong. I understand that everybody has an opinion and a way of going about things, but just because I am not going about it your way does NOT mean that it is the wrong way. I wish you all a very merry xmas and happy holidays! -Matt

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Matt,
I applaud you for taking the incentive to get this project of YOURS off and started. I know many people have shared their concerns, and regretfully in harsh tones, sarcasm, and criticism. Yes, many people may share concerns, but they do not know you nor your capability to deal with the issues that are sure to arise via murphy's law. Also, I can't vouch that we're all adults here (certainly doesn't seem like it), but I would hope you hear the end of sarcasm and start receiving constructive criticism and ideas.
I wish you the best of luck with this project, and I think I speak for everyone when I say "We want pictures!"
Keep us updated- Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Yeah, I'd actually like to see some pics.

I will defintely post pics when they arrive:)

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Originally Posted by MDB

I will defintely post pics when they arrive:)

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:gj: YAY!!! :banana:

Hey MDB when will they be delivered?

I thought you said a few days ago they would be here in a couple of days and by my guess that was Saturday or did you mean business days which I think will be Monday? Any who keep us updated. I think that you will be surprised how supportive these guys can be. Mike has helped me answer EVERY question I have. Little Indian Girl is great also she has been very helpful.

Have they arrived yet?

Did you decided against them?

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Originally Posted by rocko2527

Have they arrived yet?

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Originally Posted by Mischke

Did you decided against them?

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the person who is delivering them to me has had some very unfortunate news in their family so delivery has been delayed, which is understandable. I will update you all when they arrive:)