Virginia Beach, VA - Woman killed by pet python

you can show as much compassion as you want to, but reality is reality.

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Originally Posted by redpython

you can show as much compassion as you want to, but reality is reality.

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Exactly!

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I'm going to assume you're confused and here's why.

There is no lack of compassion for this woman and her stupid though tragic end.

There is also no letting go of the fact that she knew better and broke THE most important rule of giant snake keeping.

When your kid gets his first speeding ticket do you tell him to be more careful where he speeds so he won't get caught or do you tell him to obey the RULES and he won't have to worry about being caught.

It's a damn shame she died. If she's contributed to the gene pool let's hope the offspring got some smarts from the dad.

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Assume all you want... Your still miles from the mark.

You said..."There is no lack of compassion for this woman..."

And then you also said..."If she's contributed to the gene pool let's hope the offspring got some smarts from the dad."

Are you serious? That level of dense is almost not worth my time.

We all know that she made a mistake... The only difference is that it seems you enjoy rediculing the dead in an effort to pump your own ego... Like I said... but this time I will direct it directly at you Get Over Yourself...We know this was a mistake that ended tragically, that could have been avoided... We don't need you to tell us that... and we definatley don't need you taking witty shots and making light of the situation when someone has lost their life. I could go on in response to your comment... But I personlly feel exchange of thoughts with you is no longer worth my time.

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Originally Posted by redpython

you can show as much compassion as you want to, but reality is reality.

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Your right you can have compassion for her family and freinds in this time... and it doesn't change the reality that a critical mistake casued her death. Rediculing the deceased because of the mistake that was made IS NOT compassion, and actually shows a serious lack of compassion.

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Originally Posted by SoCaliSon

Assume all you want... Your still miles from the mark.

You said..."There is no lack of compassion for this woman..."

And then you also said..."If she's contributed to the gene pool let's hope the offspring got some smarts from the dad."

Are you serious? That level of dense is almost not worth my time.

We all know that she made a mistake... The only difference is that it seems you enjoy rediculing the dead in an effort to pump your own ego... Like I said... but this time I will direct it directly at you Get Over Yourself...We know this was a mistake that ended tragically, that could have been avoided... We don't need you to tell us that... and we definatley don't need you taking witty shots and making light of the situation when someone has lost their life. I could go on in response to your comment... But I personlly feel exchange of thoughts with you is no longer worth my time.

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Truth hurts Boyo.

I have not taken any shots or been rude. If you think I have then the problem lies squarely with you.

You may not like what I say. I actually could not care less. However, what I say is the plain and simple truth.

There is no lack of compassion in my stating that if she has kids they got some smarts from dad. By the outcome it is obvious this woman was NOT smart enough to have that snake.

It's a doggone shame she wasn't smart enough. But she wasn't. There is no lack of compassion. I'm not glad she's dead. I'm kind of mad that she's helped fuel the fire for not keeping large constrictors as should all who keep or are even thinking about keeping them. Her stupidity can have a direct result on my ability to keep my snakes. I'm supposed to feel more sorry for her?

Dream on man.

I haven't posted or been on in some time but when I read this article this morning in the Washington Post my first thought was not anything close to thinking foul play was the culprit.
So I figured I would come on here to see what others thought or if she was a member.
My first response was she made a owner mistake and it cost her the ultimate price. I said out loud why in the world was one person alone trying to give meds to a large snake?

If she did indeed work in a local reptile dept and had several snakes then all the more reason she should have known better. Before you keep giants you need to research and know what your dealing with.

I feel for her family and husband. My prayers go out to them.

On the other hand I get upset because it is just another nail in the coffin to take /ban reptiles from us. Poor judgement is what leads to most deaths, that and lack of knowledge in what your dealing with.

I understand everyone has their own opinion and if it was foul play involved once the ME's report is done then we will all know. I tend to think it was a case of bad animal mgmt.
A split second choice that you can't take back.

Hope this serves as an eye opener to all who sometimes let their guards down or get complacent that sometimes the things we deal with can be unforgiving.

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Originally Posted by dsirkle

You and I clearly don't run with the same crowd as each other do.

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everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but nice way to rack up posts. :gj:

Everyone makes mistakes, some people learn from them, and some people die.

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Originally Posted by nchapa

Very sad for the poor lady and her family :(.

But it doesnt take CSI to think the husband had something to do with it. In most cases husbands do have everything to do with it, and why would this be any different.



my .02

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I was responding specifically to this part of your post because I found it to be a bizarre point of view. I don't see where learning from mistakes even enters into your thoughts about this.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Truth hurts Boyo.

I have not taken any shots or been rude. If you think I have then the problem lies squarely with you.

You may not like what I say. I actually could not care less. However, what I say is the plain and simple truth.

There is no lack of compassion in my stating that if she has kids they got some smarts from dad. By the outcome it is obvious this woman was NOT smart enough to have that snake.

It's a doggone shame she wasn't smart enough. But she wasn't. There is no lack of compassion. I'm not glad she's dead. I'm kind of mad that she's helped fuel the fire for not keeping large constrictors as should all who keep or are even thinking about keeping them. Her stupidity can have a direct result on my ability to keep my snakes. I'm supposed to feel more sorry for her?

Dream on man.

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Like I said... We know this was a mistake, and we know that this was avoidable. You speaking the way you are about her... less than a week after her death...Calling her "stupid" and harping on her mistake...is not only is unecessary, but is actively showing a lack of compassion. I am not saying that your statements are not true... Just that going on like that at this time is insensitive, unecessary, and overly self righteous. We all make mistakes, we all break the rules now and then, and we all hope that it ends up in our best interest when we do. I seriously doubt you are any different. You are going pretty hard on her considering you are judging her based on a brief article and your own assumptions. Neither you or myslef knew her, or were in the room when it happened... So why do you think you are an expert on her death to the point where you know how stupid she was. She could have been killed by a clever intruder with a perfect cover up... we just don't know and it is not our place to try and guess, or pass judgement on the case. I can't imagine what her husband would think reading your statements having just lost his wife... Knowing your level of compassion I know you wouldn't care what he thought. I hope your kids get their since of morality from someone else.

http://kyherpsoc.org/patrick/

Remember this story? Same species of snake - same scenario in terms of attempting to medicate a large animal without anyone to help out.

"But by the grace of God there go I"

That's certainly true of each and every one of us who have handled a large animal of any kind (except maybe domestic dogs). I must say I'm shocked... :O ... at how many people are talking about how stupid she was and what a moron she was as if they've never done something stupid that could have cost them their lives. Only difference between any of us and her is that she got called to account for one of her mistakes and so far we haven't.

I'm just left with this bit of Biblicalesque wisdom to give - Let he who is without mistakes cast the first stone

That's us... Bp.net: The friendliest online community.....who can only seem to talk about how stupid someone was to break a rule when it killed them. Yay us!

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Originally Posted by waltah!

That's us... Bp.net: The friendliest online community.....who can only seem to talk about how stupid someone was to break a rule when it killed them. Yay us!

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Too true.

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Originally Posted by waltah!

That's us... Bp.net: The friendliest online community.....who can only seem to talk about how stupid someone was to break a rule when it killed them. Yay us!

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Tell me this.

When some guy gets killed for drag racing on public streets, what's the first thing that most of you think?

My guess is this: "that guy was an idiot," quickly followed by, "I feel so sorry for his family that his stupidity took his young life."

Choices were made, consequences were the result.

Doing it before or not has nothing to do with her dying. It was a STUPID thing to do. There is no way around that.

Eh, I'm not trying to convince any of you that I'm right and you're wrong. If there is a right or wrong it really makes no difference to her. She's still stupid and still dead.

If you don't want me to talk about you being stupid, don't do stupid things.

When I do stupid things, which I have and will again, feel free to talk about me or not. As you see fit is fine.

But don't try to force your morality or mores on me. I didn't ask for them, don't want them, and honestly am not really even interested in why you think what I think is so bad.

You all go right ahead and pat yourselves on the back and talk about how compassionate you are and how much you care about people you never met and how terrible those of us who disagree with you must be.

And when a ringneck snake is the only reptile you can keep because all the others pose a threat to STUPID people, you just come right on back to this thread pat each other some more.

That poor girl! I think it sounds fishy but you never know.... She was so pretty! Its so sad....:(

i call foul play.

Were there scratch marks or injury to the snake? Did the snake possibly bite her?

How hard would it be for a grown man to crush a womans throat with an arm? maybe it was someone else? maybe another object used instead? *would they leave visible marks as compared to a snake performing the same action?*

Im all for hearing how this could have happened like this. But i have a real hard time believing a 10 foot snake could kill a person without receiving injury to itself as well. I know i would be clawing at a snake around my neck and tearing it apart, among other things if my life depended on it. ( maybe not, but i have a hard time believing myself that i would go down without a fight)

Would the coils of a snake that size, block off the bloodflow to the brain before they crushed the esophagus?

Thanks for any answers to those that might be able to answer them for me. I am just, honestly, having a hard time believing this went down as it did. I suppose its a fault of mine, or learned practice to be skeptical.

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Originally Posted by mooingtricycle

i call foul play.

Were there scratch marks or injury to the snake? Did the snake possibly bite her?

How hard would it be for a grown man to crush a womans throat with an arm? maybe it was someone else? maybe another object used instead? *would they leave visible marks as compared to a snake performing the same action?*

Im all for hearing how this could have happened like this. But i have a real hard time believing a 10 foot snake could kill a person without receiving injury to itself as well. I know i would be clawing at a snake around my neck and tearing it apart, among other things if my life depended on it. ( maybe not, but i have a hard time believing myself that i would go down without a fight)

Would the coils of a snake that size, block off the bloodflow to the brain before they crushed the esophagus?

Thanks for any answers to those that might be able to answer them for me. I am just, honestly, having a hard time believing this went down as it did. I suppose its a fault of mine, or learned practice to be skeptical.

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Moo, I personally saw this happen.

I knew this guy who had a retic. It too happened to be about 10 feet long and not very thick, though it was a bit larger than the one in the pictures.

This guy with the retic knew another guy. This other guy was small, maybe 5'7" and 145lbs dripping wet. Not exactly muscle bound but not a weakling by any means.

So, this little guy comes out wearing the retic. (I think I told this story on fauna once) We laughed when the snake pinned one of his arms. We chuckled with him when the snake looped his neck. We laughed some more when it sent a loop out and pinned his other arm to his chest.

Now the snake has both arms pinned and a loop around his neck. It's not a big snake by any means. Long and skinny.

He started turning red which just turned the laughter up.

When he started turning purple we got up and unwrapped him.

The snake never bit him, never to upset, never really even moved fast. But it wrapped him up and would have killed him had he not followed THE rule for having large snakes.

I am in no way saying it wasn't intentional, that was my first thought. I am saying that I can see how a snake that size could kill a small person.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

But don't try to force your morality or mores on me. I didn't ask for them, don't want them, and honestly am not really even interested in why you think what I think is so bad.

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Welcome to the real world. Morality exists and we all have to deal with it.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Tell me this.

When some guy gets killed for drag racing on public streets, what's the first thing that most of you think?

My guess is this: "that guy was an idiot," quickly followed by, "I feel so sorry for his family that his stupidity took his young life."

Choices were made, consequences were the result.

Doing it before or not has nothing to do with her dying. It was a STUPID thing to do. There is no way around that.

Eh, I'm not trying to convince any of you that I'm right and you're wrong. If there is a right or wrong it really makes no difference to her. She's still stupid and still dead.

If you don't want me to talk about you being stupid, don't do stupid things.

When I do stupid things, which I have and will again, feel free to talk about me or not. As you see fit is fine.

But don't try to force your morality or mores on me. I didn't ask for them, don't want them, and honestly am not really even interested in why you think what I think is so bad.

You all go right ahead and pat yourselves on the back and talk about how compassionate you are and how much you care about people you never met and how terrible those of us who disagree with you must be.

And when a ringneck snake is the only reptile you can keep because all the others pose a threat to STUPID people, you just come right on back to this thread pat each other some more.

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I don't see anyone trying to push their morals on you here. You must be a little interested in why we think what you said was bad because you took the time to type this long reply. The people who just want to say how stupid she is keep saying "I have a right to my opinion". Guess what, so do I. I highly doubt that anyone is patting themselves on the back here. I agree that if this woman was handling a retic alone and it did kill her that it was a huge mistake. I don't see how calling her stupid over and over is gonna help anything.

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Originally Posted by waltah!

I don't see how calling her stupid over and over is gonna help anything.

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Then perhaps you will lead the way in letting this go.

The snake that killed patrick turned out to be between nine and ten feet.

I am actually the one who created this page...i knew patrick and it was a horrible and tragic situation. for his family and for the herp society.

very similar situation, he was administrating medice to the snakes mouth by himself.

http://kyherpsoc.org/patrick/

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Originally Posted by redpython

The snake that killed patrick turned out to be between nine and ten feet.

I am actually the one who created this page...i knew patrick and it was a horrible and tragic situation. for his family and for the herp society.

very similar situation, he was administrating medice to the snakes mouth by himself.

http://kyherpsoc.org/patrick/

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Ya know I do feel sorry for the family and friends of these people, because they have to deal with the emotions that comes with losing someone you're close to. But it's hard for me to feel sorry for the actual person when the situation could have been prevented...

I heartily dislike this back and forth jabbing at each other. Why do you folks have to do this? Do your ego's really need this boost of one upping each other on a daily basis? I do find it rather funny one of our more vocal posters was just as adament about taking the other side of the argument when it came to venomous snakes but that's a discussion for another time I suppose.

I'm glad, however, that this thread was posted if it brings into focus the responsibility to be a safe, sane and responsible snake owner when you choose to own large snakes.

We have only the one snake over 8 feet and she's certainly no giant but at over 3 feet longer than I am tall and made of pure muscle I'd be the worst kind of fool to think I could ever win out over Tequila's strength. We have rules about her. How we house her. How we handle her. Those rules were discussed, laid down and agreed to before we ever finalized her adoption from Jamie and Amy. With kids in the house, with all of us a bit complacent with handling the other much smaller snakes, Mike and I felt it was imperative to make sure we showed the kids what we think of as the right way to deal with this beautiful big snake of ours.

I'm sorry this woman died. I'm more sorry she made a horrific mistake that she was likely well aware of the consequences of but still chose to take that snake out and try to handle and medicate it alone. Her family's loss is great. The damage this sort of story does to us all in the greater herping community is pretty awful. All in all a very horrible thing that could have and should have been avoidable.

Can we simply focus on good snake keeping habits when it comes to larger snakes and leave the amateur CSIing and the insults out? I'd rather we learned from this tragedy, wouldn't you?

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I heartily dislike this back and forth jabbing at each other. Why do you folks have to do this? Do your ego's really need this boost of one upping each other on a daily basis? I do find it rather funny one of our more vocal posters was just as adament about taking the other side of the argument when it came to venomous snakes but that's a discussion for another time I suppose.

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Jab Jab Jab

I'm still new to snakes and new to these forums, but if I can take a stab at it, I would say that people looking to blame the husband or the victim here are simply getting defensive about their hobby. Look at the thread on the Gaboon Viper bite that happened here in Winnipeg and you see the same behaviour, but of course the outcome in that case was less drastic.

Given the current push in the US to ban these large and dangerous animals, you have some real cognitive dissonance going on here. People know that the reality is that any snake over six or eight feet is a potential killer given unusual circumstances. People know that snakes really aren't *ideal* pets. People know that they make mistakes in their handling all the time. Having said all that, people don't want to be told that what they are doing is potentially *wrong*.

When the unthinkable happens, everyone immediately wants to distance themselves from the events and make the person who screwed up an outcast from the community. When someone drag racing on a street kills a pedestrian, every guy who has ever floored it off a red light feels that little knot of doubt gnawing at their gut saying 'It could have been me.'

Look at what people are saying; 'She never should have', 'It must have been the husband', etc... It's hard to simply say, 'I have an animal in my home that is equally lethal, and that could have been me on any day of the week'. Burmese, coastals, retics, red-tails, bloods... Any one of these could easily overpower an average human if they got around your neck, face or chest.

I think the only healthy response to this is compassion for her family and a renewed commitment to safety in our own homes. No one wants to admit it, but the federal government probably has a point that these animals really don't belong in the hands of an average hobbiest.

Just my two cents.

TKiY - You make a good point.

We've all become to complacent and familiar with our animals. For whatever reason we've lost that natural instinct of immense respect and a realization that these large snakes are NOT household pets like any other. We don't treat them as they should be treated and that's in part because familiarity breed contempt.

I mean if we had a pet bear we'd treat it as a potential killer at all times but when it comes to snakes we often treat them as if they were nothing but a kitten in a big body. How often do we see people describing their snakes as "gentle as a kitten", "would never hurt anyone", "friendly as a puppy", etc, etc, etc?

I can almost guarantee that had this woman truly realized that she was dealing with a wild animal that is by no stretch of the imagination domesticated and not a traditional pet except that it's a captive then she probably wouldn't have been killed. She would have not only been respectful of what it is but also would have been terrified of what it could potentially do.

I mentioned a pet bear and I once had the opportunity to do a rehab with a bear. It was a tiny cub when we got it and for the longest time even when it weighed almost 400lbs I still visualized it as a tiny cub. Treated it that way too. Until one day I saw it take a "playful" swipe at a 120 pound bail of hay and send it skidding well over 10 yards along rocky uneven ground. That's when I realized this bear was a wild animal and though I could scratch it behind the ears and feed it from my hands it would absolutely destroy me if it got the thought in it's mind to do so and I'm 6'4" 250lbs.

All in all I'm just saying it might be time to start treating large snakes as the wild captive animals they are and not as little lap dogs.

13, you make an excellent point.

That point leads me to this thought.

If we don't treat some of them like the kittens the pretend to be, if we don't take those and then get them to procreate in the hopes of making more kittenish snakes, if no one takes that chance of dying to tame and keep tame large snakes, then there is virtually no hope of there ever actually being large snakes as tame as kittens.

However, if some do take that chance, if they do go through tens or hundreds or maybe even thousands of individuals looking for "just the right one" to plug into a breeding project, and one of the goals of that project is to have kitten tame snakes, then eventually, someday, there is a very good possibility that that is exactly what will be produced.

Comparing apples to oranges here, if you can breed a dog to be aggressive, if you can breed it to have bug eyes and a curly tail, and do that successfully through successive generations, then it may well be possible to breed attitude into snakes.

I think it is well under way even now.

wilomn - I see what you are saying and here's my thought. You're right to some extent. You mentioned dogs being bred to be aggressive so I'll use dogs as an example in what I'm going to say.

When breeders started to produce the lineage that was to become the American Pit Bull Terrier they had a few things in mind. Fearless, tenacious, drive, desiring to please no matter the cost and 100% docile towards humans. They used to give the pups something commonly known as a bite test. Which essentially was to see if they could get the animal to bite out of anger or fear. Any that did were immediately culled (that is killed) so they couldn't infect future dogs with a gene that might cause aggression.

In the fight and bull baiting rings any dog that snarled or snapped or bit a human was killed on the spot. The people promoting APBTs had a very strict standard of the type of animal they wanted and selective breeding and a willingness to kill those animals that didn't meet that standard got them exactly what they set out to get.

Can you for one second imagine today someone doing anything similar with their snakes in an effort to insure that only the "best" genes were passed on? I can't. I mean imagine you stick you hand into a tank with a few baby retics and all but one strikes and hisses at you. You kill all but the one and set it aside to be used in bringing in future generations of snakes. I absolutely don't see anything like that happening with snakes and that's one reason I don't see them becoming domesticated.

Beyond that we have the backyard breeders. Just like they've all but destroyed the Pit Bull breed I can easily see that happening to snakes. Hell people are all but giving away burmese and retics even freshly hatched because everyone and their mother saw dollar signs when it came to breeding snakes. How often do you hear a hobbyist breeder say "You know there's too many retics out there right now so I'm going to take this breeding season off and maybe next."? Pretty much never or if they do it's a financial consideration more than anything.

But I digress. A woman is dead, killed by a wild animal that lives in a cage and she did something stupid. But how stupid are the rest of us for keeping wild animals in cages just a few feet from where we sleep?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

However, if some do take that chance, if they do go through tens or hundreds or maybe even thousands of individuals looking for "just the right one" to plug into a breeding project, and one of the goals of that project is to have kitten tame snakes, then eventually, someday, there is a very good possibility that that is exactly what will be produced.

Comparing apples to oranges here, if you can breed a dog to be aggressive, if you can breed it to have bug eyes and a curly tail, and do that successfully through successive generations, then it may well be possible to breed attitude into snakes.

I think it is well under way even now.

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I didn't know it was possible to breed aggression out of snakes? Do you know who, if anyone is attempting this project?

13 and Icy,

I have been in the reptile business for several decades. I'm not bragging I just want you to know where I got my ideas from. I've been in retail, wholesale, import and breeder businesses.

I've seen multitudes of people pick a pet. One of the main things they ask about is attitude. Let's say it's important to 7 out of 10.

Of those 7 let's say only 2 raise up and then breed the snake they got in part because it was nice. Those 2 breeders then become proud parents and tell everyone how specail and neat their babies are and how, here's the key, they have such different personalities.

Jimbob is so nice I can kiss him on the nose but that food bucket Abigal won't let me anywhere near her, she's just like her brother Abner.

Out of the whole litter, only those two are really mean.

So, here we have the beginnings of weeding out aggression.

Note I do NOT mention domestication.

It may take, no will take, many years and many generations but I have no doubt there will be a visible difference between the average large snake produced and the average, attitude only now, snake produce in 20 to 30 years, which for some snakes will only be 4 to 6 generations; barely enough time for any change to evidence itself.

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Originally Posted by bsd13

wilomn - But how stupid are the rest of us for keeping wild animals in cages just a few feet from where we sleep?

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Not very if indeed they are kept in cages. The stupidity comes into play when you attempt to feed, med, or handle a large snake without someone else present.

My father worked at the National Zoo as a police officer and when on the night shift his favorite place to nap on break was in the reptile house amongst the venomous snakes. Which of course were in cages. Had he decide to let them out then he would have been stupid.

As for domestication of snakes I have to agree that is not going to happen simply I feel due to the size of the brain and thought process. Not much to work with there but instincts.

Re: Virginia Beach, VA - Woman killed by pet python
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Originally Posted by bsd13 View Post
wilomn - But how stupid are the rest of us for keeping wild animals in cages just a few feet from where we sleep?
Not very if indeed they are kept in cages. The stupidity comes into play when you attempt to feed, med, or handle a large snake without someone else present.

My father worked at the National Zoo as a police officer and when on the night shift his favorite place to nap on break was in the reptile house amongst the venomous snakes. Which of course were in cages. Had he decide to let them out then he would have been stupid.

As for domestication of snakes I have to agree that is not going to happen simply I feel due to the size of the brain and thought process. Not much to work with there but instincts.
__________________
~ Johanna ~ aka Jody

"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be measured by the way it's animals are treated"
~ Mahatma Gandhi~

Just for clarification's sake, the above quote was about sleeping near reptiles was solely 13's, not mine. I never said any such thing.

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Originally Posted by jotay

Not very if indeed they are kept in cages. The stupidity comes into play when you attempt to feed, med, or handle a large snake without someone else present.

My father worked at the National Zoo as a police officer and when on the night shift his favorite place to nap on break was in the reptile house amongst the venomous snakes. Which of course were in cages. Had he decide to let them out then he would have been stupid.

As for domestication of snakes I have to agree that is not going to happen simply I feel due to the size of the brain and thought process. Not much to work with there but instincts.

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Woosh!

Update incase if anyone didn't hear or cares. They put the snake down on Fri. I was so tempted to go and get it from there cause I was almost certin of what was going to happen. Kinnda kicking myself for not but I am not even sure if they would give it to me. The snake was put down per request of the husband.

well there are hundreds more retics that need good homes, so all is not lost if you want to save one!

i no a girl on reptile geeks who knew this lady and said she was always careful and repectful to her snakes she had a couple more besides that retic. and she said that the retic was really docile but put a needle near me or retrain me to give me medicine i'm gonna fight to if i was snake. They don't know whats goin on just whether or not its feeding time.

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Originally Posted by scales owner

The snake was put down per request of the husband.

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Back to my original thought....eliminate some of the physical evidence.....

I have till now kept out of this, because I could see the rationale on both sides.

However, reading how she had experience and that reptiles were not new to her, I am of the mind that she wasn't "stupid," nor did she make a "stupid" mistake. I would label it more "misplaced" concern.

She seemed to be more concerned about the animal's health than her own safety. Perhaps she thought that she knew the snake well enough to be able to handle it on her own. We will never know what behaviors that the animal was displaying that made her take that chance.

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Originally Posted by monk90222

Back to my original thought....eliminate some of the physical evidence.....

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How in the world is the snake considered "evidence?" :rolleyes:

It can't talk and investigators can't get anything from it unless it's dead, and since it is now dead, if the police decide that the snake is worth investigating, they now have a cadaver to work on...but it would show nothing other than to match up any "bruises" with the snakes size, perhaps scale indentations etc.

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Originally Posted by broadude

...but it would show nothing other than to match up any "bruises" with the snakes size, perhaps scale indentations etc.

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exactly....the husband requested the snake to be put down. The body of the snake can be disposed of....no more measuring the snake or other stuff you mentioned if there is no snake to measure/compare to....(this is just my opinion....and I have the right to have one...:salute:)

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Originally Posted by broadude

I have till now kept out of this, because I could see the rationale on both sides.

However, reading how she had experience and that reptiles were not new to her, I am of the mind that she wasn't "stupid," nor did she make a "stupid" mistake. I would label it more "misplaced" concern.

She seemed to be more concerned about the animal's health than her own safety. Perhaps she thought that she knew the snake well enough to be able to handle it on her own. We will never know what behaviors that the animal was displaying that made her take that chance.

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I agree with you. Honestly, this thread should have been over a while ago. Someone died trying to take care of their sick snake. Her actions may not have been well thought out, but it wasn't as if she died trying to wrangle some deadly snake to impress others.

Wow...This thread is a great reminder of why I stopped coming here...some of you seem to have a firm grasp on reality, but I think you're still out-numbered by the insane, holier-than-thou, have never made a mistake in their life.

I'm gone...and don't worry, I'll be leaving so fast the door won't have time to hit me on the a$$! :gj:

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Originally Posted by sho220

Wow...This thread is a great reminder of why I stopped coming here...some of you seem to have a firm grasp on reality, but I think you're still out-numbered by the insane, holier-than-thou, have never made a mistake in their life

I'm gone...and don't worry, I'll be leaving so fast the door won't have time to hit me on the a$$! :gj:

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The more good people are run off because of the "holier than thou..." the fewer people with a "firm grasp on reality" left to hold them in check.

I hope you rethink your decision.

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Originally Posted by monk90222

exactly....the husband requested the snake to be put down. The body of the snake can be disposed of....

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yes, God forbid the man doesn't want the snake that killed his wife to ever be seen or to hurt anyone else... :rolleyes:

Let's make no mistake about this - this is a tragedy - but an avoidable one. While my condolences go out to this woman's family, it doesn't change the fact that she was acting irresponsibly.

I continue to read articles and posts from people who talk about how "tame" their giants are. Let's get back to reality - they aren't tame, they don't "think", the concept of "trustworthy" should not be used in conjunction with any reptile and continuing to propagate these myths is doing nothing but putting our hobby in danger.

Too many giant reptiles, be it monitors or snakes, are being sold to people who have no business owning them. When I see articles in magazines espousing that retics and burms make excellent captives, I cringe. When people are using giants as "meet and greet" animals at kids parties and events, I cringe. We sit here and wring our hands about the government stepping in and trying to regulate our hobby, but very few people are making any effort at self regulation.

It is a matter of time until something even more tragic happens. What's everyone's reaction going to be when a burm or a retic constricts someone's kid because it smelled the family cat or bunny on them? When the leading magazine in our hobby is running articles stating that they make good captives or showing pictures of children petting a 13' snake at a party - what message is being broadcast?

All this talk about "knowing" the animal or discussing that somehow her behavior was acceptable because it was docile is silly. It's a giant, potentially deadly animal with a brain the size of a marble. All you need to know is that if it's hungry or upset, all bets are out the window.

You can't make comparisons between taking a chance with a 5' ball python and an 11' retic. While it's tragic that someone lost their life this way, asking people to censor their feelings on the issue out of respect for the dead is uncalled for. It's incidents like this that are putting the future of our hobby on the line.

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Originally Posted by 92phantom

i no a girl on reptile geeks who knew this lady and said she was always careful and repectful to her snakes she had a couple more besides that retic. and she said that the retic was really docile but put a needle near me or retrain me to give me medicine i'm gonna fight to if i was snake. They don't know whats goin on just whether or not its feeding time.

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Very true...also yes she did have more. I belive in adition to.... there was a Burm. Python, 2-3 GTP's A red tail boa, a king snake and I think maybe one more. They also said that she worked w/ reps. for a few years...no master but well aware enough to know the situation and if it was dangerous or not. Leading to this.......

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Originally Posted by monk90222

Back to my original thought....eliminate some of the physical evidence.....

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I wouldn't be suprised if he WAS envolved in it. It is still under investagation as far as I know.

some of you guys are crazy! there is a girl dead and i hear she is stupid and a moron.if this was a relative of yours would you still call them stupid?or a moron?alot of you are just as cold blooded as the animals you keep!friggin makes me sick to even think of such BS.i would issue out bad reps but i dont have time .thats sad to say considering this is the friendliest reptile forum on the net

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Originally Posted by Butters420

some of you guys are crazy! there is a girl dead and i hear she is stupid and a moron.if this was a relative of yours would you still call them stupid?or a moron?alot of you are just as cold blooded as the animals you keep!friggin makes me sick to even think of such BS.i would issue out bad reps but i dont have time .thats sad to say considering this is the friendliest reptile forum on the net

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So then, let me see if I have a proper grasp of your point of view.

Since your opinion is not "gospel" some of us are less than you?

How interesting.

Does it get lonely up on that pedestal you've glued your backside to?

Coldblooded does not equate to honest.

Are you inferring that this dead girl, stupidly and moronically dead by the way, was not acting in a stupid or moronic fashion? Was she exhibiting extreme intelligence? Was she above THE rule for handling large constrictors? Because she's dead we shouldn't speak the truth?

How stupid and moronic is that?

You're welcome to your feelings but you are no better, and probably no worse, though that remains to be seen since you seem to want to restrict the ability of those who think other than you to post those feelings in public, than anyone else here.

You should try to remember that.

i am in no way riding the high horse.just upset with wat some are saying.its disrespectful and pointless.its one thing to say she made a mistake and try to prevent this from happening to someone else,not drill into the ground how dumb,stupid and moronic she is.

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Originally Posted by Butters420

i am in no way riding the high horse.just upset with wat some are saying.its disrespectful and pointless.its one thing to say she made a mistake and try to prevent this from happening to someone else,not drill into the ground how dumb,stupid and moronic she is.

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Your opinion and you're entitled to it.

But I'd be willing to bet you do not soon forget this thread and what was said in it, both positive and negative.

Ever wonder if that was the point, the not forgetting, of any of the posters?