Introducing a New Method for Enforcing TOS/Site Rules

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Ok i noticed we now have a "infractions" section under our user names.I will use JASBALLS as an example here(since i noticed he has 1 :O.It says 1 then(92) what is the 92?? :confused:

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That is the points that i got for the ONE!! infraction I think.. LOL.

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

That is the points that i got for the ONE!! infraction I think.. LOL.

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Wow you are almost to the 150 then your benched forever :O.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Wow you are almost to the 150 then your benched forever :O.

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Forever and ever??? Oh Snap! I be good fo nows on...:rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Forever and ever??? Oh Snap! I be good fo nows on...:rolleye2:

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You better shape up mister :sabduel:

I am just wondering about "sexual innuendo" in the Breeding section. People regularly use terms like "sexy" to express their joy at snakes in general, I have noticed. Is this considered an infraction, I wonder? Or "my balls" (referring to BPs..) I hope that I don't get an infraction for this post; it is in the interest of learning the ropes.

To clarify a couple of things...

John's total Infraction points is part of the exceptions noted in the "A Note on Moderated Members" in the original post. He understands this, and if he does not, he may contact an admin for clarity. His total is between him and the admins.

On the questions about what qualifies as "sexual innuendo" and similar issues regarding the subjective judgement that the staff may need to make from time to time:

This new Infraction System is not intended to create a NEW set of rules that are even more strict than the ones everyone has been living happily under for years now...it is to ENFORCE the rules we already have. Have we ever gotten someone into trouble for the typical "balls and racks" puns? No. We're realistic and have always tried to maintain a fine balance between appropriate family-friendly language and the realism of normal, every day conversation and humor. Even Disney-type animated films meant for children include humor that adults "get" and kids don't.

Either you trust us to run the site fair and reasonably...or you don't. There are those who will never trust us, no matter what steps we take, either forward or backward, in the enforcement of the TOS/Rules they agreed to abide by when registering. There's really nothing we can do about that except to continue to do our best.

Lastly....a note on the QT forum and increasing restrictions on who may join. It's been tried in the past, and at this time we have no intention of going down that particular road again. That is a "darned if you do" and "darned if you don't" situation and no matter what we do, there will be people who disagree with the policy. So we'll stick with what has been working best for the staff so far.

John's total Infraction points is part of the exceptions noted in the "A Note on Moderated Members" in the original post. He understands this, and if he does not, he may contact an admin for clarity. His total is between him and the admins.

Hey Judy, Dont take this wrong, But if they all can see My points why cant that see the reasons for the points? Just asking.. I'f I'm out of bounds just let me know in a pm.. Really not starting anything. I just thought it was a good question for this Thread..

If you want to explain it, John...you are more than welcomed to. It's not some big secret. I just didn't think it would be appropriate for me to do so. But if you'd like for me to, I will.

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Originally Posted by JLC

If you want to explain it, John...you are more than welcomed to. It's not some big secret. I just didn't think it would be appropriate for me to do so. But if you'd like for me to, I will.

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Have at it!! Did I mention I Love you lately?? LOL!! Its only fair to all the members to know what the infractions are for everyone. It could be a curse or It could be a threat.. Everyone should beable to see Why the person has the infractions. Just My ho..

Alrighty....

John has been banned from the site before and returned only under a probationary status. While "on probation" he still struggled with self control and being able to respect the community here by staying within the bounderies of our TOS/Rules. He came "that close" to getting himself banned again and was put on moderated status indefinitely.

When we removed the moderated status means of enforcement...we could not just give John a "blank slate." So, his Infraction Points now reflect how close he is to getting banned again and how much self-control he must maintain in order to keep it from happening.

This is being explained because John requested it. It is NOT open for debate.

I think what John is asking, when he got the infraction today, he'd like for people to see what the infraction is for. If people see the post that you were infracted FOR, there should be an icon next to the mult-quote button that they can click to see the reason you were infracted for that particular post.

In order to be able to click infractions to see all your infractions from any post would be a hack that we have not done yet.

Is that what you meant, John?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I think what John is asking, when he got the infraction today, he'd like for people to see what the infraction is for. If people see the post that you were infracted FOR, there should be an icon next to the mult-quote button that they can click to see the reason you were infracted for that particular post.

In order to be able to click infractions to see all your infractions from any post would be a hack that we have not done yet.

Is that what you meant, John?

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Yep, Thats it Robin.. And Thanks for posting that Judy!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Yep, Thats it Robin.. And Thanks for posting that Judy!

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See I'm still trying to help! When I do get banned. I want to be banned and still liked by the mods and most members here!! I like this place Kinda.. LOL!

it might be easier to just have it show which rule(s) were broken

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Originally Posted by nixer

it might be easier to just have it show which rule(s) were broken

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It will tell you if you are viewing the post in which the infraction occurred...

Exhibit A
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...t=58859&page=2

My post is on that page somewhere with the infraction listed below it.

Bruce

I may have lied. I think it only shows because it was edited?

Bruce

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Originally Posted by McAdry

It's sad to see that the mod's and admin's have been forced to reagulate the behavior of adults on this site,...

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It's sad to see that you can't speak even remotely free without having admins and mods "regulate" our behavior.

Freedom of speech anyone? I know there are some things not appropriate for a family site, but this is going comunist real fast.

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Originally Posted by McAdry

ahh yes it might be a bit hard to enforce but in the end, most of the time with a little time and effort one can tell the general age of the poster through how they post and or type not always,but most to the time. Oh and well it's really simple to enforce violation is simply a ban from the site.This is just my opinion I'm shure those that run the techincal part's of this forum could come up with some way to do it. Again bascily it comes back to self discipline and self requlation,and a personal sense of responsiblity.

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I've seen 8 year olds that act like adults, and 30 year olds that act like children. If you have some super power about guessing ages you should try out for a profiling job with the feds....

You already stated that its the admins and mods that are "forced" to regulate us. Now yous ay its self regulation.

Pick one, you are on both sides of the fence.

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Originally Posted by bcampos

It's sad to see that you can't speak even remotely free without having admins and mods "regulate" our behavior.

Freedom of speech anyone? I know there are some things not appropriate for a family site, but this is going comunist real fast.

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You seem to have confused this site, of which memebership to is a privilidge NOT a right, with your right to speak your mind in public.

While this IS the internet and a site publicly available, it is NOT one where you can post without being a member.

IF you don't like the rules, or the communistic slant you seem to see, hit the road.

It's as simple as that.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

You seem to have confused this site, of which memebership to is a privilidge NOT a right, with your right to speak your mind in public.

While this IS the internet and a site publicly available, it is NOT one where you can post without being a member.

IF you don't like the rules, or the communistic slant you seem to see, hit the road.

It's as simple as that.

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I was not demanding the right of free speech.. just bringing up its ideals as part of our society. I understand, of course, that this is a privately maintained site. It's the theory behind the words that we as humans should want to come out.

If you have trouble seeing the comunistic approach here, or agree that it is correct to censor everything, then you should perhaps think a bit more about it.

My favorite is that if you say something to someone and they blow up about it, you get hit with these "points." Apparently you can tease level headed people but not anyone who is unstable...

Edit: Ok I take this one back a little bit, aparently you have to TRY to get them to explode... I wonder how they know if you tried or not?

Hey bc, could you define communism for me please. I want to be sure we're talking about the same thing.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Hey bc, could you define communism for me please. I want to be sure we're talking about the same thing.

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Carefull Wilomn.... It looks like you may be trying to get me to explode which would be a violation of the bear baiting act of 2008. This could cause for an admin or moderator to punish you with a socialistic "point" to which the created system that lacks ideology would punish you with. With this approach, this non-capitalist "classless" society of forum posters would be forced to live in a society where they are placed into this ficticious "classless" class.

I was not going for the exact Karl Marx socialist approach dividing away from historical materialism that brought on communism, but more the general little boy-big brother approach of modern communisitic attitudes.

Its ok, in your 88 years (acording to your profile), I'm sure you've seen alot. Just ask big brother what you think, they will tell you.

Having moderators that enforce the rules is in no way communism. The definition of true communism would be that all the people contribute, and all benefit. Unfortunately there are these human beings that exist. They ruin it all, by not being ideal. People will fuss and argue and pick fights.
I still fail to see why enforcing rules that already existed is somehow depriving anyone of enjoying the site.

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Originally Posted by bcampos

Carefull Wilomn.... It looks like you may be trying to get me to explode which would be a violation of the bear baiting act of 2008. This could cause for an admin or moderator to punish you with a socialistic "point" to which the created system that lacks ideology would punish you with. With this approach, this non-capitalist "classless" society of forum posters would be forced to live in a society where they are placed into this ficticious "classless" class.

I was not going for the exact Karl Marx socialist approach dividing away from historical materialism that brought on communism, but more the general little boy-big brother approach of modern communisitic attitudes.

Its ok, in your 88 years (acording to your profile), I'm sure you've seen alot. Just ask big brother what you think, they will tell you.

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So then, you can't?

Interesting.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

So then, you can't?

Interesting.

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If you read my post, you would see that the definition was "hidden" inside......

Some call it an all work all benefit.. Some call it big brother asigning you your life...

Wow

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Originally Posted by bcampos

If you read my post, you would see that the definition was "hidden" inside......

Some call it an all work all benefit.. Some call it big brother asigning you your life...

Wow

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Well, I'm not real good at finging things people hide. I'm pretty much a plain and simple guy.

Could you give me the plain and simple version of your definition of what communism is?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Well, I'm not real good at finging things people hide. I'm pretty much a plain and simple guy.

Could you give me the plain and simple version of your definition of what communism is?

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Ok plain and simple guy... If you would like to explain exactly what the text book answer is.

Comunism is "Revolutionary Proletarian Socialism" or "Marxism." It is a political and economical philosophy claiming to be free of ideology. Yet it is a specific ideal in and of itself. It is a structure that promotes a "classless" society of people, yet in doing so creates a distinct upper and lower class. The upper class is usually the organization or political structure that enforces the ideals. Its design is that a mass of working class can push forward without materialism, and create a better world. In reality, it is a "big-brother" attitude of the enforcers keeping the "classless" working class in check and under control.

I think we've gotten away from the topic of the big-brother system, but I'm sure you understand now.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Having moderators that enforce the rules is in no way communism. The definition of true communism would be that all the people contribute, and all benefit. Unfortunately there are these human beings that exist. They ruin it all, by not being ideal. People will fuss and argue and pick fights.
I still fail to see why enforcing rules that already existed is somehow depriving anyone of enjoying the site.

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I don't disagree with rules, it was the big-brother aspect I was trying to discuss. We have just kind of wandered off the path of the conversation and turned it into something it should not have been.

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Originally Posted by bcampos

I don't disagree with rules, it was the big-brother aspect I was trying to discuss. We have just kind of wandered off the path of the conversation and turned it into something it should not have been.

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Ok, no now I have your testbook definition above and this comment here but, unless I missed it, I don't have your defintion of communism unless, of course, you argee whole heartedly with the textbook definition you used.

Supposing you do, wouldn't the abililty to simply walk away from the site, out of big brother's sight, negate the implication you make of two classes?

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Originally Posted by bcampos

I don't disagree with rules, it was the big-brother aspect I was trying to discuss. We have just kind of wandered off the path of the conversation and turned it into something it should not have been.

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This is all the stuff I tried to say.. I'm just a Dummy though.. Good job BC!!:bow:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Ok, no now I have your testbook definition above and this comment here but, unless I missed it, I don't have your defintion of communism unless, of course, you argee whole heartedly with the textbook definition you used.

Supposing you do, wouldn't the abililty to simply walk away from the site, out of big brother's sight, negate the implication you make of two classes?

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That is my definition of comunism. I've studied it just a bit. I havent seen many textbooks that discuss it in the manner I've explained. Walking away from the site would be like leaving China. Sure you can leave a communist country, but that doesn't make the place you left anything other than communism.

Sometimes you have to fight a bit to make what can be good better.

Sometimes you have to pick your fights also.. And it is clear that we have a different opinion and you are trying to get me mad. Calling my definition the textbook answer when it is not will not change my ideals, even if you enjoy bashing my knowledge. It will not anger me to see your opposition. It is clear that we do not agree, and you want to duke it out.

If you have a better "real world" definition of comunism please, share. But again, we have gone very far off topic here.

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

This is all the stuff I tried to say.. I'm just a Dummy though.. Good job BC!!:bow:

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Thank you JASBALLS

I think it is funny that people who do not contribute to this community choose to post in threads that concern how those who participate in the community are to be repremanded for bad behavior.

Glad to see the new policy. I hope it makes this forum much easier to moderate for the mods/admins and causes some people to reconsider making inappropriate post before they hit the reply button.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

I think it is funny that people who do not contribute to this community choose to post in threads that concern how those who participate in the community are to be repremanded for bad behavior.

Glad to see the new policy. I hope it makes this forum much easier to moderate for the mods/admins and causes some people to reconsider making inappropriate post before they hit the reply button.

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Daniel, Shame on you!! There are tons of folks here that dont even post! They have rights to you know? Post counts mean nothing here..

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Daniel, Shame on you!! There are tons of folks here that dont even post! They have rights to you know? Post counts mean nothing here..

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Wow Jas... Aparently there are some people here who think you have to sit at home and make 5,000 posts before you can have an opinion!!!!

Contributions to the site are beyond the old ataboys ,and nice pic dude, comments....

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I still fail to see why enforcing rules that already existed is somehow depriving anyone of enjoying the site.

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I don't disagree with enforcing the rules, in fact I like the way the rules have been spelled out a little more clearly. What I disagree with is the public punishment idea where everyone can see how many times you've been dinged, but not what it was for.

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Daniel, Shame on you!! There are tons of folks here that dont even post! They have rights to you know? Post counts mean nothing here..

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Funny thing is that you have to post in order for this policy to effect you.

If you just kept your mouth shut, your infraction level would have been zero. But you chose to post therefore the rule effected you.

How is someone that posts rarely going to be greatly effected by a policy related to the manner in which people post? It should not concern them unless the few posts that they make each month are all inappropriate.

I don't understand the issue with the policy. It is no different than the previous methods used by moderators/admin. It is just a different way of keeping track of the infractions.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I don't disagree with enforcing the rules, in fact I like the way the rules have been spelled out a little more clearly. What I disagree with is the public punishment idea where everyone can see how many times you've been dinged, but not what it was for.

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Mark---- I hear you on the public punishment without explanation.

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Originally Posted by bcampos

Ok plain and simple guy... If you would like to explain exactly what the text book answer is.

Comunism is "Revolutionary Proletarian Socialism" or "Marxism." It is a political and economical philosophy claiming to be free of ideology. Yet it is a specific ideal in and of itself. It is a structure that promotes a "classless" society of people, yet in doing so creates a distinct upper and lower class. The upper class is usually the organization or political structure that enforces the ideals. Its design is that a mass of working class can push forward without materialism, and create a better world. In reality, it is a "big-brother" attitude of the enforcers keeping the "classless" working class in check and under control.

I think we've gotten away from the topic of the big-brother system, but I'm sure you understand now.

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I believe, as this post shows, that it was you who brought text books into a discussions about opinions and definitions.

Thank you for your disagreement.

Perhaps I missed you saying so, but I don't recall you mentioning anything about making a change in the new system. I did see complaining about it and broad generalizations relating it to communism which, other than a text book definition of, you don't seem overly familiar with.

Are you implying, since you haven't said so directly, that the mods and admins have a want, a need, a desire to elevate themselves above the general membership and that they do this by oppressing that membership? Are you saying that the mods and admins oppress the general membership by making rules that only the general members have to follow, that the mods and admins are immune from?

Or are you saying that there are some members here who need to inflate their worth, their self value, the value they have in the eyes of others, by oppressing those general members who are not mods and admins?

You can see that I am confused.

I am confused because it seem to me that those who enforce the rules, rules which are by and large in accordance with what the general population wants, are working far harder than the very general membership that you claim is oppressed.

How can this be?

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Funny thing is that you have to post in order for this policy to effect you.

If you just kept your mouth shut, your infraction level would have been zero. But you chose to post therefore the rule effected you.

How is someone that posts rarely going to be greatly effected by a policy related to the manner in which people post? It should not concern them unless the few posts that they make each month are all inappropriate.

I don't understand the issue with the policy. It is no different than the previous methods used by moderators/admin. It is just a different way of keeping track of the infractions.

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If you just kept your mouth shut, your infraction level would have been zero. But you chose to post therefore the rule effected you.

I'll keep My mouth shut for now on...

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

I'll keep My mouth shut for now on...

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I'll give 100 to 1 odds you can't.

LOL

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I'll give 100 to 1 odds you can't.

LOL

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You WIN!!:cool:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I believe, as this post shows, that it was you who brought text books into a discussions about opinions and definitions.

Thank you for your disagreement.

Perhaps I missed you saying so, but I don't recall you mentioning anything about making a change in the new system. I did see complaining about it and broad generalizations relating it to communism which, other than a text book definition of, you don't seem overly familiar with.

Are you implying, since you haven't said so directly, that the mods and admins have a want, a need, a desire to elevate themselves above the general membership and that they do this by oppressing that membership? Are you saying that the mods and admins oppress the general membership by making rules that only the general members have to follow, that the mods and admins are immune from?

Or are you saying that there are some members here who need to inflate their worth, their self value, the value they have in the eyes of others, by oppressing those general members who are not mods and admins?

You can see that I am confused.

I am confused because it seem to me that those who enforce the rules, rules which are by and large in accordance with what the general population wants, are working far harder than the very general membership that you claim is oppressed.

How can this be?

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Why can't you understand. I already said we are not going to agree on this. Why are you still hitting me with questions. WE DO NOT AGREE. It makes no sense for us to continue to push our side after so many posts.

You have my opinions, they are there in my posts. That is all.

Rules are rules. I don't see any problems with any of these new ones. I'm actually glad to see them. :)

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Originally Posted by bcampos

Why can't you understand. I already said we are not going to agree on this. Why are you still hitting me with questions. WE DO NOT AGREE. It makes no sense for us to continue to push our side after so many posts.

You have my opinions, they are there in my posts. That is all.

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I am simply trying to figure out what it is that you are saying. You don't exactly make clear what you are trying to tell me we disagree about.

I now know the textbook definition of communism but it doesn't fit this site, which you have stated is becoming communistic.

How does that work?

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I am just wondering about "sexual innuendo" in the Breeding section. People regularly use terms like "sexy" to express their joy at snakes in general, I have noticed. Is this considered an infraction, I wonder? Or "my balls" (referring to BPs..) I hope that I don't get an infraction for this post; it is in the interest of learning the ropes.

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We think a lot alike! But I think we are safe in these cases; it seems.

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Originally Posted by Loft Lizard

I may have lied. I think it only shows because it was edited?
Bruce

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Go to the post, click on the red box showing that it was hit up for infraction and you will see the "why."
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/i...=view&p=696231
But there is no easy way to know why someone has points unless they give us the link like you did. :)

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I don't disagree with enforcing the rules, in fact I like the way the rules have been spelled out a little more clearly. What I disagree with is the public punishment idea where everyone can see how many times you've been dinged, but not what it was for.

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I agree about showing why members have points. If you show the points, why not be able to click on their points and get a list of the infractions (w/ or w/out links to the posts). But then everyone will want to see members' rep points, too. Where does it end? Maybe I don't agree. Hmmm... something to think about.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Glad to see the new policy. I hope it makes this forum much easier to moderate for the mods/admins and causes some people to reconsider making inappropriate post before they hit the reply button.

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Or, in the case of people who DON'T think twice about hitting "submit," I am glad they can be banned.

Bcampos and Wilomn, you are both looking like you're inciting each other. :colbert: I am GLAD I am not an admin or mod - making the infraction calls is going to be a tough one.

The only question I am left with is about the fact that John (Jasballs) has infraction points showing "how close he is to being banned forever." Are there others in this category? I think I know of someone else who may deserve to be in that category but has no infraction points under his name. What if you leave and come back with a new name? Doesn't that count, too? (I am not insinuating, just curious.)

[QUOTE=MelissaFlipski;698666]

Bcampos and Wilomn, you are both looking like you're inciting each other. :colbert: I am GLAD I am not an admin or mod - making the infraction calls is going to be a tough one.[QUOTE]

If asking for clarification of a definitive statement is inciting, then have at it.

I do agree with you on the latter though.

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Originally Posted by MelissaFlipski

What if you leave and come back with a new name? Doesn't that count, too? (I am not insinuating, just curious.)

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That is covered in the original TOS rules, immediate banning again.

The thing that must be remembered is we as staff are human and some of us have been doing this a very long time so it no surprise we can tell the difference between a true issue and a couple of friends having a little laugh. We are not mindless robots that will come after you at the drop of a hat. We have the ability and mental capacity to look at a situation and make a level headed informed decision about the issues at hand. Its what we have been doing all along this tool just helps us further keep this site running at full speed while still maintaining the ever growing population we are getting.