What do you make of snake-phobic people?

I'm glad to hear experenced people talk about the fear factor of snakes. I am pretty new to snake keeping. I have a baby corn (Mazie) and perhaps the most beautiful BP (Lucy) in the world!!! I was too scared of my little tiny baby corn snake to even hold her in the store. It took me days to get up the courage to hold her. Needless to say, she has been very patient with me and has taught me that I had nothing to fear.

I think people's fear of snakes is deep, primitive, and healthy, similar to our fear of heights, or class five rapids. Courage is not acting without fear, it is acting in spite of it.

I think some people are born with irrational fears. It's instinctive. I have an anecdotal example of how this might be true. My cats are tabby cats, which I believe were domesticated in areas where there are not many snakes, they ignore our ball python. The snake can crawl on them and they don't care. Now my girlfriend's cat is a Siamese, a cat domesticated in Asia where there are many snakes. He knew the snake was in the house the first time we brought the snake home. We walked in the door and he sniffed the air a bit, tail goes poof and he hysterically jets away. Now he is a bit better but if he jumps on the couch while we are handling the snake, almost immediately his tail poofs up and he runs away. We're talking about a baby ball python here, and he doesn't even need to see it, just smell it, and he freaks out. Also, snakes will spook a horse that has never seen a snake in its life. I imagine the same thing can happen with people.

Now on the other side of the spectrum are people who choose to be 'afraid' or to dislike snakes because of how snakes have been portrayed throughout history. These people can be convinced otherwise. My girlfriend's mother, upon hearing we got a snake, said, "IT LIVES IN YOUR HOUSE AND YOU TOUCH IT?" Then when she came out here she held him and was fine with it.

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Originally Posted by icygirl

I'm not sure fear of snakes is instinctual. Lots of times little kids are the most curious and fascinated by snakes, while their parents are usually the "urghh.. *shudder*" culprits... which leads me to believe it's a learned behavior...

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agreed. my friends kid, andrew LOOOVES Aphrodite(BP) and Button(BCI).
also, i was NEVER afraid of snakes. Loved catching garters as long as i can remember... even getting bit, i didn't mind. Though these boids sure got some hearty dents... i'm sure i'd mind that!

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Originally Posted by jwarriner

I think some people are born with irrational fears. It's instinctive. I have an anecdotal example of how this might be true. My cats are tabby cats, which I believe were domesticated in areas where there are not many snakes, they ignore our ball python. The snake can crawl on them and they don't care. Now my girlfriend's cat is a Siamese, a cat domesticated in Asia where there are many snakes. He knew the snake was in the house the first time we brought the snake home. We walked in the door and he sniffed the air a bit, tail goes poof and he hysterically jets away. Now he is a bit better but if he jumps on the couch while we are handling the snake, almost immediately his tail poofs up and he runs away. We're talking about a baby ball python here, and he doesn't even need to see it, just smell it, and he freaks out. Also, snakes will spook a horse that has never seen a snake in its life. I imagine the same thing can happen with people.

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By definition, "irrational" is something that is not logical or rational. Scientifically, it is not possible for a human to be born with an "irrational" instinct just as it is not possible for any animal. Instincts are the most primitive of behaviors and limited in their overall scope. Your example of cats is by far different than a human, as the two can not be even remotely compared to each other concerning brain function, reasoning and intelligence. A Siamese cat is a more intelligent cat than a tabby (that's not to say that tabbys are dumb by any means). I have a Siamese as well as a tabby. In addition, Siamese are more territorial than tabbys and are more inclined to be protective/defensive than other breeds of cats...*that* is the instinct, not the particular animal they are exhibiting the attitude and behavior toward.

As humans, we are born with certain instincts, basically they are:
fear, hunger, joy
Fear: if a baby is tossed up into the air, the sudden, quick movement into the unknown with nothing securing it will cause a reaction of "what the?* and the baby will cry. If you continue that action while laughing and comforting the baby, eventually the "what the?" will turn into "do it again Mom!"... hence, learned reaction/behavior.
A fear of *any* particular animal or any one thing is learned, period. If it was instinctual then infants and young children would not fearlessly reach out their hands to touch something or try and pick it up.

For common sense comparison purposes:
How can an infant "instinctively" be afraid of snakes but not instinctively be afraid of dogs, cats, fish, knives, birds, bees, or fire without being taught that these things could potentially harm them?

Basically, irrational fears are cause and effect.

Many people that we know/had over, were under the impression that most snakes are venomous. Once I inform them that BPs are not, as are many other snakes not venomous, they are willing to open up to them more. I thought that in grade-school, we were taught about constrictors, which don't have venom, but kill prey through constriction. I guess that there were many people out sick that month.. lol.

My mom tried to teach me snakes were bad when I was little. Growing up everything my parents told me I usually did the opposite so when I was 6 I caught a garder and let it go in the house. Scared my mom even more. Then I started catching them throughout the years and releasing them and she eventually got over it. Now that I have 2 BPs and a Hognose I take one of them almost EVERYWHERE I go that allows animals and introduce them to new peeps. The question I think I get asked the most is "Why would you keep a poisonous snake?" When Im at a friends house thats usually when I decide to either put the snake in there face or act like its trying to bite me and start freaking out. Gives some people a big rush but then I explain to them how docile they are and that most snakes do not have venom. More people are afraid of my hognose than the BPs. Especially after I tell them that it does contain mild venom but is not lethal unless you have some type of allergic reaction. Hes not the first snake people want to hold when theyve never held one but they usually do get a short lesson on snakes.

Yeah, I don't get it... but you know what kind of freaks me out (in person, that is)- solifuge! I know they're not dangerous in the slightest, but they're FAST! When i was in Africa they would cross a room in about half a second, and sometimes go up a leg! This pic isn't quite what ours looked like (they were a bit fatter, and supposedly what the little egg-layers in Alien are modeled after), but it's close:

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../solpugid2.jpg


Also, when you stepped on them, it was about a gallon of goo on your foot! I know we have a lot of spider lovers on here, but it's the only creature that has ever creeped me out! ;)

The entire order of Solfugidae are trippy looking!
I guess if we're going to mention the critters that DO tend to freak us out, mine would be roaches. I raise them as feeders for my tarantulas and scorpions but the hubby has to feed them to our inverts. I can't handle being that close to them. They weird me out too much even though they're harmless... I'll play with snakes, pick up worms and let spiders and scorpions walk all over me but I jump back when one of my hissers actually hisses at me....I'm a dork. :D

I know this is an odd place for spider questions, but since you have so many... can you play with your tarantulas? I've always thought they LOOK cool, but I'd be a little hesitant about the whole fang thing. ;)

In a way I respect people that are afraid of snakes and in a way I don't. I understand people that had experiences with snakes that weren't good, but hate people that are afraid of snakes "just cause, they're ugly!" OK, you can not like snakes but you shouldn't hate them.
I always say I'd love to see one of those people be put on a planet with no snakes... they'd get eaten by rats, mice and other nasty stuff. :)

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Originally Posted by Swingline0.0.1

I know this is an odd place for spider questions, but since you have so many... can you play with your tarantulas? I've always thought they LOOK cool, but I'd be a little hesitant about the whole fang thing. ;)

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I'll PM that answer to you so the thread doesn't get off track.

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Originally Posted by BallPythonsRule

In a way I respect people that are afraid of snakes and in a way I don't. I understand people that had experiences with snakes that weren't good, but hate people that are afraid of snakes "just cause, they're ugly!" OK, you can not like snakes but you shouldn't hate them.
I always say I'd love to see one of those people be put on a planet with no snakes... they'd get eaten by rats, mice and other nasty stuff. :)

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I respect people who have "respect" for snakes. I have little to no respect for people who are "afraid" of snakes.
A person can be "afraid" of snakes because of a bad experience or lack of knowledge about them and still "respect" them, IE, steer clear of them. People who are "afraid" of snakes because someone taught them that snakes are bad and who have no respect for them, IE, will go out of their way to kill one, those are the kinds of people I'd like to beat over the head with the same shovel they just beat the snake with.

ok...I've read through this thread and I have to tell you that I'm one of those people. I'm actually on the website to learn because my daughter left for college last month and I'm in charge of her snake! It's cute and I feed it and I'm trying to regulate temps, etc. But I'm struggling because I should probably clean out it's home and I'm afraid to go near the snake - I do think it will strike at me. He always looks annoyed to me! Even cleaning it's water thing makes me nervous and he comes right out of his hide every time I stick my hand in the his home...so don't hate all of us! Some of us are trying!!!

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Originally Posted by cheryls

ok...I've read through this thread and I have to tell you that I'm one of those people. I'm actually on the website to learn because my daughter left for college last month and I'm in charge of her snake! It's cute and I feed it and I'm trying to regulate temps, etc. But I'm struggling because I should probably clean out it's home and I'm afraid to go near the snake - I do think it will strike at me. He always looks annoyed to me! Even cleaning it's water thing makes me nervous and he comes right out of his hide every time I stick my hand in the his home...so don't hate all of us! Some of us are trying!!!

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You would *not* be one whom we'd (well, I at least) would dislike because you *are* trying. ;)
You should have seen me when we got our first tarantula! :O :bolt:
If you don't want to pick the snake up, you can always use a snake hook and put it in a separate container while you clean. ;)
Kudos to you for giving it a good effort for the sake of your daughter as well as the snake.

Is a snake hook something you can buy in a pet store? I don't recall ever seeing one - but I haven't really looked. My daughter keeps telling me that he's greeting me when he comes out of his hide as I change his water - that he's just naturally curious and has to check it out - I think he's being territorial and warning me to get out of there! I suppose we just have to get used to each other! :)

I haven't ever seen them at pet stores, but then again I haven't really looked for them either. I don't have any hooks because I don't use them but I would think you could find them at either a reptile shop or, if not, you can find them on line.

Your daughter's most likely absolutely right. One of my snakes will do the same thing whereas the other (my bull snake) will rattle his tail and hiss every time his lid is removed but as soon as I pick him up, he mellows out (usually, unless he's having a bad hair day, then the hissing and "I'm a rattle snake in disguise" thing continues for a few minutes). :D

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Originally Posted by cheryls

Is a snake hook something you can buy in a pet store? I don't recall ever seeing one - but I haven't really looked. My daughter keeps telling me that he's greeting me when he comes out of his hide as I change his water - that he's just naturally curious and has to check it out - I think he's being territorial and warning me to get out of there! I suppose we just have to get used to each other! :)

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Not really, you can buy on on ebay though, or use a golf stick.

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Originally Posted by cheryls

ok...I've read through this thread and I have to tell you that I'm one of those people. I'm actually on the website to learn because my daughter left for college last month and I'm in charge of her snake! It's cute and I feed it and I'm trying to regulate temps, etc. But I'm struggling because I should probably clean out it's home and I'm afraid to go near the snake - I do think it will strike at me. He always looks annoyed to me! Even cleaning it's water thing makes me nervous and he comes right out of his hide every time I stick my hand in the his home...so don't hate all of us! Some of us are trying!!!

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Good for you! And good luck. It may just be that her snake is used to handling and thinks it's "play time" so he comes out of his hide. Maybe you can ask your daughter more about the snake's habits to help you get a feel for when he is in a good mood vs. a bad one.

I think one important turning point is realizing that if he does strike at you, it really isn't going to hurt that much. A nip from a puppy or kitten hurts a lot more. Of course it depends on the size of the snake, but the fine needle-like teeth will cause a bit of bleeding, but the pain itself is generally very minor. If you wouldn't hesitate to play with a kitten with its little needle-sharp claws, there's no reason to be afraid of being bitten by a small snake.

I realize there is little logic in a phobia, but habituation helps. Try to think of him more as a shy little animal than something to fear--that is what he is. He won't bite you unless he is very frightened (and you will know, because he will coil up tightly to protect himself and look very tense), or he mistakes you for food (their eyesight isn't very good). As long as you don't smell like a mouse, and he isn't used to hitting the first thing that enters his cage, the risk is pretty low. The tongue-flicking will be his way of determining what you are, by scent. So if he comes out of his hide flicking his tongue, he's only trying to see what you are. Since humans are too big to swallow, you're in no real danger. ;) One possible way to move him will be to remove the dish and hides, and place an open box in the cage. He will most likely move into the box to hide, and you can then pick it up and close the lid so you can clean.

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Originally Posted by Shadowspider

I respect people who have "respect" for snakes. I have little to no respect for people who are "afraid" of snakes.
A person can be "afraid" of snakes because of a bad experience or lack of knowledge about them and still "respect" them, IE, steer clear of them. People who are "afraid" of snakes because someone taught them that snakes are bad and who have no respect for them, IE, will go out of their way to kill one, those are the kinds of people I'd like to beat over the head with the same shovel they just beat the snake with.

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I respect people's fear of snakes, though I don't share the feelings. But I agree with you on the killing thing. It drives me insane to think people would go out of their way to kill something just b/c they are afraid.

Before we even had a pet snake, I used to try to spread the word, especially to neighbors in the semi-rural area where we live, that more snakes meant fewer rodents. We have always loved having black snakes living around our house and in the nearby woods. We just wish they would come in and guard our pantry and attic from those little mousey chompers!

You're right - I wouldn't hesitate to play with kittens or pups and that's an excellent thought process to have! I appreciate the reframe...and truly love the box idea - it seems a calm way to get the job done - if he cooperates, of course. He's definitely tongue flicking when he comes out of his hide, but he does sometimes look tense to me like when I come into the room just to check on him - but not coiled. He sticks his head and part of his neck out of the hide box to check me out. Last week I bent over in front of the habitat to plug something in and he struck the glass of the enclosure! I'm not sure what that was about, but it definitely surprised me! Is it possible that he's a bit perturbed by the fact that my daughter isn't living in the room with him anymore? He's used to her being nearby - music, tv, etc. Maybe he senses a change outside of his habitat?

How often are you feeding him and what size prey is he fed?
Oh, and how big is he?

I'm feeding him once a week - small mice/frozen. He eats quickly and easily and I often wonder if he should eat more. My daughter says that he shouldn't. The guy at the pet store said the next sized mouse was too big...He's about a year and a half old, maybe a bit more- I haven't seen his body in it's entirety for some time, so I'm not sure how long he is. Do you think he should eat more?

I have a 1 1/2 old female that can eat small adult rats, so I'm pretty sure that your daughter's snake will be able to eat two adult mice, or you can switch over to rats and feed her a weanling rat pup. The ideal prey size for BP's is something slightly smaller than their girth.

This is great information. The poor thing must be hungry! I think I have the wrong size prey....I'll order new ones online! Someone else suggested that.
Thank you!

I'm not afraid of snakes but I do get a bit nervous when there are venomous snakes around. Most of the time when I'm fishing and a venomous snake comes up to the surface of the water and its close to me, I will throw small rocks around it to scare it off. I have never hit the snake and don't intend on hurting it, just scaring it away. When I was little I was always interested in snakes, but when I saw snakes in the woods or somewhere, I would get close to it and watch it. I was afraid to pick one up back then because I didn't know what was venomous and what was not. I'm not sure if my mom is afraid of snakes, but I do know that she doesn't want me to have a snake and my dad is afraid that the heat mat or lamp would start a fire. :( My uncle is afraid of snakes and I don't know what caused it, but I know that I did my part in keeping him afraid when I was a kid using toy snakes. Now I would try to help reverse that (or with anyone), if I had a snake. I think that more people should be educated about snakes while they are in school so they will be less afraid of snakes and less likely to kill one when they come across a snake.

The striking at the side of the tank isn't too mysterious--ball pythons have poor eyesight, and all the snake saw was an unclear movement. With no smell to go with it, the snake either thought there was prey it might miss out on if it didn't act, or it thought something was about to pounce and eat it.

I doubt that the snake misses your daughter--reptiles aren't wired to be affectionate the way many mammals and birds are. As solitary animals that don't care for their young, they are only drawn together by scent when it's time to breed. (There are a scant few exceptions to this rule, but even in those cases, evidence of affection is lacking). Reptiles do get used to people, and routines, and may react with some stress when the routine changes--but they will eventually get used to a new routine without 'missing' the old one (or the people). You can make a snake happy, but it won't love you. That's fine, we can love them, and enjoy making them happy. They have emotions, but not all of the emotions we have. They are also not territorial. It seems likely that the snake is used to food being put in its cage when the cage is opened---so when the top comes off, he comes out, flicking his tongue to try to catch the scent of food. Making sure that he's getting enough to eat will reduce the chance of him mistaking any movement for food.

Thanks so much for all the guidance - I really think reading through the website, etc. - that the prey is too small and he's hungry....or that I'm just reading too much into this because of my fear....but, it's no worse than a kitten's bite :) (reprogramming my thinking as I type) I should have learned more before my kid left!

But you're doing so now instead of just doing nothing. ;)
Just remember, don't stick your hand right in front of its face and don't try and pick it up by its head, snakes tend to not like that as they feel they're being threatened or attacked.
What you can do however, to help you get more use to it is to just gently "pet" its body. If you need to lift its hide, do so. That will help you get acquainted with the snake and vice versa. In addition, it will give you a better idea of the snake's reactions, however, do so a couple days after its had a good meal and its belly is full.

I have to agree with everyone that says phobias are the cause of traumatizing childhood events. (And, obviously, ignorance). But I can personally attest to the first one, as I am TERRIFIED of lizards. I don't care how small or harmless it is, I'll jump on a chair, run screaming, you name it. People get confused because they tend to lump all reptiles together and they look at my snakes and go, "You're afraid of lizards? But you keep snakes. That doesn't make sense."

Fact is, when I was little, I was getting the mail one day and there was a lizard inside the box. I grabbed the mail and it jumped on me. That sudden movement was enough to frighten me, but moreover it got tangled up in my hair and we had to cut it out with scissors. I will literally start BAWLING if someone gets too close to me with one now. And it doesnt help when people try to get a laugh out of your fear.

I had a friend once who wanted to help me get over my fear of lizards. She got a baby beardie and had me touch the tail while she held it. I was shaking all over for quite a while afterwards, but I DID get up the courage to do it. I would have made more progress if the very next day, some guy hadnt chased me around petsmart with a water dragon trying to put it in my face.

So it's not only the people ignorant of their own accord, but the OTHER ignorant people who like to tease the ones who are afraid. It's like 2/3 of the population either has a fear, or strives to perpetuate the fear. Then the last 1/3 of the population tries to remedy it. It's difficult to make any headway. :(

if they haven't had something 'snake related' traumatic experience happen to them, or they geniunely have a phobia of them i don't mind, but if they're are like 'eww snakes' i find it...kind of annoying i guess?

I'm very excited! Thanks to all of you, I've fed Dakota 3 of the teeny mice we had over the last 4 days. He ate two tonight without a problem and already I feel better about things. I'm guessing in the next couple of days, he'll be more content. In fact, this morning, when washing up and changing his water, he didn't come anywhere near me. He seems much less tense! This weekend, I'll tackle the habitat cleaning task. Once I get through that, I think I'll be all set. Also, I ordered better sized mice off line! I'm very happy to be serving him in a better way. Maybe someday I'll actually touch him...if he lets me, of course. Thanks again! :)

i would have to say that most people's fear of snakes are based on ignorance. When i got my first snake, a 22" BP, my mom asked me if it could escape its cage and strangle it in her sleep, and my mom is an intelligent woman. Also, i was talking to a girl and when i told her i had a snake, she asked how much it hurt when they stung you with thei tongue. So its definitely ignorance that causes maybe 70% of the fear, while the other 30% is a combo of upbringing, experience, and just plain phobia.