Give Me an Example #1

This is all so exciting. I love learning this stuff. And my fiance will be so happy. My fiance loves genetics. Even has a DNA strand tattooed on one leg. :carrot:

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Originally Posted by ivylea77

As for breeding spider to spider, no super form has yet to be found.

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That depends on what you mean by "super form". While the visual aspect of a homozygous spider may not be distinguishable from the heterozygous spider, there are distinct differences, such as the homozygous spider will always produce offspring with spider patterning, which I consider to be pretty "super". :D

The spider would have to carry a pastel gene, would it not? So if you got two pastel spiders (Bumble Bee) together, you have the potential of killer bee's?

Do you get Bumble Bee out of crossing a spider with a pastel. Because the pastel is Co-Dominant it creates the Bumble Bee by mixing with the spider?

ya. The way to produce the most killer bee's would be to have a homozygous dominant bumble bee spider and breed it to another bumblebee spider.
It can really be done several ways, but you absolutely have to have a bumble bee ( A spider with pastel gene) and another pastel to breed it to. Those would be the min. requirements.

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

That depends on what you mean by "super form". While the visual aspect of a homozygous spider may not be distinguishable from the heterozygous spider, there are distinct differences, such as the homozygous spider will always produce offspring with spider patterning, which I consider to be pretty "super". :D

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But there is no super 'form' like the super pastel, or Blue eyed lucy. Most people in the business consider the super form of something to be visibly different.

So lets say you have a spider and a pastel. Breed them and one of the offspring is a BumbleBee. Then breed that BumbleBee to another pastel, you have a chance of getting a Killer Bee?

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

The spider would have to carry a pastel gene, would it not? So if you got two pastel spiders (Bumble Bee) together, you have the potential of killer bee's?

Do you get Bumble Bee out of crossing a spider with a pastel. Because the pastel is Co-Dominant it creates the Bumble Bee by mixing with the spider?

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Yes, that's how you get a bumble bee. I beleive that is a 1/4 chance of getting one too!

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

So lets say you have a spider and a pastel. Breed them and one of the offspring is a BumbleBee. Then breed that BumbleBee to another pastel, you have a chance of getting a Killer Bee?

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yes. Depending on the sex, say the mother was the pastel and the bumble bee is a male, you could even breed the bee back to the female pastel to get a killer bee

I think my homework for tonight is to create a punnet for the spider and pastel. If the pastel is Co-dom, does it show in its het form? or only in its homozygous form?

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

I think my homework for tonight is to create a punnet for the spider and pastel. If the pastel is Co-dom, does it show in its het form? or only in its homozygous form?

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Pastel will always show, but the super version is visually different.

So a het pastel will still show, just like the spider, but because its Co-Dom, it shows up dominant along with other traits, such as the spider, axathic, ect.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

I think my homework for tonight is to create a punnet for the spider and pastel. If the pastel is Co-dom, does it show in its het form? or only in its homozygous form?

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The pastel will show in it's het form, and the super pastel shows in the homozygous form.

If you use the search function here I'm sure you'll be able to find pastel pics and super pastel pics.

Oy, I must go to work now and earn money for snakes. :carrot: I'll try drawing up a punnet for the spider and pastel combinations and make sure I understand. Then I'll move onto another combination to figure out.

Thanks everyone who is helping me to learn this stuff!

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

So a het pastel will still show, just like the spider, but because its Co-Dom, it shows up dominant along with other traits, such as the spider, axathic, ect.

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Well, yes, but not with the axanthic. axanthic is a recessive trait >.<. The Co- Dom morphs that I know of off of the top of my head are mojave's, lessers, cinny's, fires (i think) and ivories (also not sure).

Albinos, caramel albinos, pied's, axanthics, clowns, ghosts, lavender albinos and others are recessives.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Oy, I must go to work now and earn money for snakes. :carrot: I'll try drawing up a punnet for the spider and pastel combinations and make sure I understand. Then I'll move onto another combination to figure out.

Thanks everyone who is helping me to learn this stuff!

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lol no problem!

Co Dominant

• Pastel..........................Super Pastel/Opal
• Woma Tiger...................Pearl
• Yellow Belly...................Ivory
• “Black Back”..................Red Axanthic
• Mojave.........................Leucistic: Blue-Eyed
• Lesser Platinum..............Leucistic: Blue-Eyed
• Butter .........................Leucistic: Blue-Eyed
• Fire..............................Leucistic: Black-Eyed
• Cinnamon......................Black Ball/Chocolate Ball

Dominant

• Spider
• Pinstripes
• Granite?
• Calico?

Recessive

• Albino
• Ghost/Hypo
• Carmel Albino
• Axanthic
• Piebald
• Clown
• Desert Ghost
• Genetic Stripe
• Lavender Albino

Feel free to correct me :) actually, please do if they are incorrect. I have been compiling a list of what makes what as I see them, so I want to make sure that I am writing them down correctly.

Drew up the punnet squares, but I am far too tired, too in pain, and too "I don't care" to put them up. But I did do the punnet squares of quite a few pastel spider combos, and I think I got them right. I shall post them up tomorrow to see.

Ok here is my attempt to figure out spider pastel crosses.

Het Spider X Het Pastel : 25% chance of Bumble Bee's, 25% chance of Spiders, 25% chance of Normals, and 25% chance of Pastels.

Het Pastel X Bumble Bee: 12.5% chance of Killer Bee, 25% chance of Pastel, 12.5% chance of Pastel, 12.5% chance of Bumble Bee, 25% chance of Spider, 12.5% chance of Super Pastel, and 12.5% chance of Normal.

Het Pastel X Homo Spider: 50% chance of Bumble Bee, 50% chance of Spider.

Het Spider X Super Pastel: 50% chance of Bumble, 50% chance of Pastel

Bumble Bee X Super Pastel: 25% chance of Killer, 25% chance of Super Pastel, 25% chance of Bumble Bee, and 25% chance of Pastel.

Killer Bee X Super Pastel: 50% chance of Killer, 50% chance of Super Pastel.

Am I right on these. Let me know which ones are wrong and I'll try and correct them.

Here is a practical application for you. A real world example if you will:

Kara posts a pic of something new from NERD. I know that the snake is super pastel, pinstripe, spider, woma. I want to maximize my chances of producing one just like it. What is the BEST pairing that I could do to make a snake just like it?

Good luck. ;)

That ones a bit tough. Might need some help on that one.

On the super pastel woma spider pinstripe project you are severely handicapped in that there may not be a homozygous spider or even pinstripe and it doesn't sound like the homozygous woma could breed.

So your best pair would probably be super pastels so that you get 100% homozygous on the pastel side but one copy each of the spider, pinstripe, and woma gene would be spread through the parents (i.e. maybe super pastel spider pinstripe X super pastel woma - maybe there are names for those, but the pairing of pinstripe, spider, and woma on the two sides shouldn't matter unless some of these turn out to be linked). This would only yield 1 in 8 super pastel woma spider pinstripes and unless there are breedable homozygous versions of woma, spider, or pinstripe that is the best you could do, never up to 100%.

As far as the others:

"Het Spider X Het Pastel : 25% chance of Bumble Bee's, 25% chance of Spiders, 25% chance of Normals, and 25% chance of Pastels."

Right, see how realizing that spiders and pastels are hets helps figure out the offspring.

"Het Pastel X Bumble Bee: 12.5% chance of Killer Bee, 25% chance of Pastel, 12.5% chance of Pastel, 12.5% chance of Bumble Bee, 25% chance of Spider, 12.5% chance of Super Pastel, and 12.5% chance of Normal."

I think this one would be 12.5% chance killer bee, 12.5% chance super pastel, 25% chance bumble bee, 25% chance pastel, 12.5% chance spider, 12.5% chance normal. Basically you take the 25/50/25 chances of homozygous, heterozygous, and normal for pastel just like with any het X het breeding and split them in half for the spider overlay.

"Het Pastel X Homo Spider: 50% chance of Bumble Bee, 50% chance of Spider."

This requires that there is a breedable homozygous spider which is not publicly known but the theory is right if it exists.

"Het Spider X Super Pastel: 50% chance of Bumble, 50% chance of Pastel"

Right, again realizing that this is a het X homo breeding.

"Bumble Bee X Super Pastel: 25% chance of Killer, 25% chance of Super Pastel, 25% chance of Bumble Bee, and 25% chance of Pastel."

Right, you take the homo X het results from the pastel side of 50% homozygous (super) and 50% heterozygous (regular pastel) and then overlay the spider side's het X normal results of 50% spider and 50% normal for spider.

"Killer Bee X Super Pastel: 50% chance of Killer, 50% chance of Super Pastel."

Right again. Pastel side it's homozygous X homozygous so it's only the het spider X normal for spider part that makes any variety in this clutch.

I think I wrote down the Het Pastel X Bumble Bee down wrong but I think mine came out to be that. I'll double check. thanks for looking those over. I'm glad I got the majority right.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

But the albino doesn't carry the normal allele does it. It is recessive so in order for it to display the albino coloration, it would be homozygous recessive. The spider, if het, would carry only one allele for normal, right? Therefore you couldn't have normals. I'm probably all messed up on this, right?

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Oooh boy, this is my introductory post and here I am jumping in on whether or not you can have "het" dominant or co/incomplete dominant genes.

A standard-patterned Albino does not carry a normal "not-albino" gene.
However, what it DOES carry is two normal "Not-Spider" genes.
Therefore... it's perfectly possible for an Albino X Spider breeding to produce normals het for albino - if your spider is a heterozygous one.

I think part of the problem is that people mix up "recessive" with "heterozygous" and "dominant" with "homozygous".

So here's my quiz question:

What could you possibly get if you cross an Albino Spider with a Jigsaw (Pinstripe Mojave) - and how would the results be different if one or the other animal was homozygous for their dominant trait instead of heterozygous?

my guess...

youd get pinstripes mojaves spiders and jigsaws all het for albino.

All the babies would be het for albino and each egg would also have an independent 50% chance of being (visible) het for spider, pinstripe, and/or mojave. The combined chance of hitting all three would be 1 in 8.

The only one of those three (spider, pinstripe, and mojave) with a proven homozygous would be mojave so if one of the parents was homozygous mojave then it would be just like the homozygous albino, all the babies would be het mojave (and het albino) and only the spider and pinstripe would mutations have the 50% chance odds each.

Seems like simple bio talk, i am takin that class right now. just set up a chart with the traits and fill in the middle. whats co dom again?

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Originally Posted by k1ingdomKaa

Seems like simple bio talk, i am takin that class right now. just set up a chart with the traits and fill in the middle. whats co dom again?

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Co-dom is an expression of the genotype when it is heterozygous. But not completely dominant.

Pastel x Normal=you can get pastels and normals.

NN:normal
P*N:pastel
P*P*:super pastel

LOL, did that make sense to anyone? haha

The homozygous form of a co-dom can create the super form.

It gets even more complicated and fun than that, JoshJP7....

Because Pinstripe and Spider combine to make Spinner and you can ALSO get Spider Mojaves....

I'd expect that you'd get the following from an Albino heterozygous Spider X Mojave heterozygous Pinstripe:

Normal het Albino
Spider het albino
Pinstripe het albino
Mojave het albino
Spinner het albino
Jigsaw het albino
Spider Mojave het albino
Spider Jigsaw het albino