How do you feed your BPs?

I couldn't possibly be the only person on this earth that doesn't really care about the feelings of a soon-to-be-devoured prey item, can I? I mean, I get what you guys are getting at, I really, really do, but...

For clarification:

I've lived w/one of my roommates for over 2 years, we used to live in an apt together with someone else, then we moved into a house with 2 other friends. This guys ex-gf worked in some type of lab somewhere, where they tested whatever it was that they were testing on lab rats that they raised there. He saw me killing some rats and said "Hey man, why don't you kill them the way they do at Christine's job?". When I asked him what way that was, he started describing it, and it had something to do with a container and dry ice and suffocation, which I imagine is somewhat similar to the CO2 chamber method, but while he was describing it, it just sounded like a huge pain in the ass. I always meant to try it for a month or 2, just because it has to be cleaner, but I never got around to it, because in the grand scheme of things, it was just a longer way to the same result, a dead rat that is going to be converted to snake-poo after a week or so.

Am I wrong or sub-human for feeling this way? Cause I'm starting to feel a little bit guilty here.

I see it as everything having its place in the food chain and they all deserve some respect for the function they're performing. Smashing its head against the wall or something that doesn't guarantee an instant death is a little cruel when it could be avoided. If you don't want to waste time with a CO2 chamber there is a method to snap the neck with a ruler against the table. I've never done it so I don't feel right explaining it.

What she was explaining is a CO2 chamber and it is regulated by labratory standards as humane method of euthanizing rodents, that's why it's used there so much. Most research labs have very strict guidelines for this sort of thing.

As far as cervical dislocation it's not easy to do, and it's not recommended for certain sizes of rodents. It really depends very heavily on the person's ability to do it, so tends to go wrong a lot and leave the rodent suffering needlessly.

As far as whether most of us care about the rodents because they end up "snake poo"....it's a respect thing I suppose. The snakes we treasure would end up dead without those rodents, the rodents are themselves living things that should have good care and a humane end, rodents are just a very big part of snakekeeping when you raise your own feeders. You don't have to treat them as pets or whatever, but neither should they, as far as I'm concerned, be treated poorly or euthanized in inhumane ways.

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Whatever the actual reason for them dying by constriction, I don't want any life or death struggles between large rats and snakes to occur in a fish tank in my room, so I cut that part out of the equation, and I don't like the idea of frozen rats thawing out in my house, so I kill them myself, outside, in a bucket. Some of my bigger BPs and my big Coastal all eat Jumbo's. Those things don't look like something I want running around, fully functional, in an enclosed area with any snake that I paid any amount of money for.

I'm not trying to look like Mike Vick out here, but sometimes some small rodents are just dealt a bad hand in life.

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I can understand this perspective partly due to the many different experience levels and common sense approach, or lack of when looking after and feeding snakes as well as the risk that can be involved.

I dont have a problem with people feeding "live" at all but unfortunately you dont always get responsible people doing it which can lead to problems for the snake, also the same can be applied to other forms of feeding such as frozen thawed not being prepared properly thus causing harm to the snake as well.

Its a very fine line I think bordering ultimately on proper knowledge and experience being applied. When things like "live" feeding are done haphazzardly and irresponsibly then logic would suggest something bad is likely to happen. When it is done correctly the risk is pretty minimal and the mouse or rat dies quicker than the average venemous snake victim.

I have seen people feed live offering the live mouse on tongs and others I have seen the mouse or rat just chucked in the enclosure with wreckless abandon.

The problem I see is a trapped rat or mouse which essentially is what it is in an enclosure with no escape may react differently or more aggressively than in a natural surrounding such as in the wild where more ofen than not they dont even see the snake before its too late.

I also think there is a huge difference in a keeper / breeder who has vast experience and knowledge with the particular species of snake feeding live than someone who bought a snake from the pet shop and wants to watch their new pet kill something.

Comes back to experience again. I agree with the comments on what works for your snake as long as it is healthy and eating but I would personally, advise people with little experience offer FT 1st.

This topic is one that will always raise strong opinions and debates and one thing that should be prevelant with any keeper is to ask themselves an important question "what method of feeding they can confidently and correctly apply for their snake that will offer both the snake and owner healthy life overall"

If everyone was responsible and dilligent then I am sure there would be less arguements about it but like anything else when dealing with pets there are all manner of type of owners good and bad.

Whatever your choice examine the proper procedures and methods and where possible seek advice when required or where there is doubt.


I had a very interesting few days of debate on this subject with Jo and Robin about a year ago now on this subject and it comes as no surprise it is alive and kicking now. :)

Excellent post Snakey! I do remember that *cough* debate LOL. What a way to make friends and influence people eh my friend. I think though in the end all of us grew to respect each other's viewpoint and perhaps learn a bit about the other side of the feeding coin...I know I certainly did. That's what proper debate is about though isn't it (even if we did get a tad hot under the collar a time or two....it's that stubborn as the day is long scots blood in me...I know LOL).

Your points made here are excellent and need no further dressing up from me. Well said, well thought out and very balanced view of things. Great post on a sometimes difficult topic! :)

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Excellent post Snakey! I do remember that *cough* debate LOL. (even if we did get a tad hot under the collar a time or two....it's that stubborn as the day is long scots blood in me...I know LOL). :)

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LOL aye I knew from the 1st reply that you had some Scots blood in you.:D

Yes we did set that thread on fire as I remember and I came away with a profound respect for both you and Robins debating skills and knowledge.

Ahh the fond memories :frustratehehe

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Originally Posted by snakey68

LOL aye I knew from the 1st reply that you had some Scots blood in you.:D

Yes we did set that thread on fire as I remember and I came away with a profound respect for both you and Robins debating skills and knowledge.

Ahh the fond memories :frustratehehe

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Scots blood will out as my granny often said LOL. I remember Robin and I going on the big scots themed smiley hunt for you as a sort of thank you for the "great debate".

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Scots blood will out as my granny often said LOL. I remember Robin and I going on the big scots themed smiley hunt for you as a sort of thank you for the "great debate".

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LOL Aye I remember them well in fact I liked them so much I saved them. Made my day that did ..:sunny:

live in the enclosure, but i take all the hides, branches, water dish, etc. out so she can just get it and get it down. i've never had a problem. she can tell when all the furniture is missing and knows it's feeding time.

Ok, I guess we all just won't see eye to eye on this particular part of the thing, which is cool. When I said what I said about feeding live, I didn't mean to sound like I was looking down at people who fed live or anything, and I actually feed my JCP live if she happens to be out on her branch (because reaching down past her with a dead rat will just get me bitten), and I have fed almost all of my snakes live at some point or another throughout the years, even if only until such time that they'd take p/k. I also feed my snapping turtle live rat fuzzies when its red-meat day for her. I was/am just a little suprised to see that I'm the only one on here that kills rats by blunt trauma instead of any other way, CO2 or that cervical dislocation thingy, and the suprise is because everyone I know with snakes does it the same way.

Anyhow, I will give the CO2 thing a *try* at some point, just because it's cleaner, but I'm sure that I'll prolly go back to this method because it's easier and I'm pretty sure it's faster, but we'll see. As for the whole respecting the food chain thing...like I said, I guess we won't all totally be eye to eye on this one. I respect the food chain for what it is, but I don't think that killing a rat that I'm about to feed to snake by hitting it against a hard surface is being particulary disrespectful to anything, I mean, hey, poor rat I guess, but the world keeps on spinning. I'd like a 100% quick and painless death too (actually I'd like to live forever), but I don't know that I'll get one. Maybe I'd feel different if I raised my own rats, but I wouldn't do that. I love my reptiles...but that's as far as it goes. To me, rats/crickets/pinkies/mice/etc are food for my pets. I don't mean to offend anyone that keeps rats as pets or anything, but I'm just being real on how I feel about it, I don't really feel like I'm disrespecting anything, if it comes across that way then I apologize.

i feed inside enclosure and live

one of my snake did get bit once, just a nick, put some neosporin on and it was gone in no time.

In the snakes enclosure, some like live, some take f/t.

When I look after my friend's boa and corn snake, I feed inside the enclosure. No particular reason, we just haven't ever experienced any problems with it.

I put a little bib around his neck and set him up in the high chair. Usually it's something like mashed peas and squash, but we're getting into finger foods now. He really likes corn.

NOM NOM NOM NOM

Best reply ever!!!!

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Originally Posted by shhhli

I put a little bib around his neck and set him up in the high chair. Usually it's something like mashed peas and squash, but we're getting into finger foods now. He really likes corn.

NOM NOM NOM NOM

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Originally Posted by shhhli

I put a little bib around his neck and set him up in the high chair. Usually it's something like mashed peas and squash, but we're getting into finger foods now. He really likes corn.

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I hope you mean creamed corn, I read that kernel corn can be too hard for their systems to digest!

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

I hope you mean creamed corn, I read that kernel corn can be too hard for their systems to digest!

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We just boil it and shuck it right off the cob!

You are just just begging for them to develope food allergies, down the line!
:colbert:

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

You are just just begging for them to develope food allergies, down the line!
:colbert:

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I just can't help give him what he wants. Prehaps cola in a juice cup isn't too good either?

;P

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Originally Posted by shhhli

I just can't help give him what he wants. Prehaps cola in a juice cup isn't too good either?

;P

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Hmmm, I'd think it's ok as long as it's not a sippy cup. Those things can rot teeth right out :(

I feed him live in what i call his "feed tank." i used to feed him live in his tank, but like another poster stated, he will strike whenever i open the tank, so i switched to another tank to see if that would solve the problem and it did. once i put him in his feed tank, he's instantly searching for the mouse. i tried F/T for about a month and he would NOT eat, tried pre-killed, same result, but the minute i offered a live mouse he gulped it down in a second, so that's what he's getting.

im a believer in feeding out of the tank, just because it kinda makes sense... if youre not handling the snake much, and the only thing it sees comin into the tank is edible, then the next time you reach in to play with it... youre getting the rat treatment.

i also try to at least knock out the rats... just for safety sake. i saw a beautiful albino at the fortworth reptile show (i want it still... if youre on here.) that had been jacked up by a rat a few days prior... so ... i knock em out.


but i dont frown on big breeders feeding in tank live...

i just have the luxury of spending more time doing things that arent completely necessary.

I feed F/T (I strike-feed by dangling the rat by tongs) inside the tank, I feel that since BPs are such finicky eaters anyway then the added stress of handling them twice in the space of like 30 minutes isn't going to do any good. The only thing I am worried about is the fact that she's on Repti-Bark and I'm worried about impactions. Because of this I may switch to newspaper. Please tell me if this is alright.

All the best

David

Live in thier tubs, no problem:gj:

F/T in their tubs, but my pastels both eat live in their tubs. All 4 of my recent additions were being fed live so I have to try and switch them over to F/T for my own convenience.

I have three, and my goal is to feed them all f/t in a separate tub. I did, however, have to start them out on live to get them to eat. Now, though, two of them are well established on f/t and the third just arrived. So far I haven't had a problem feeding out of their enclosure.

Live and in their tubs...
BT

Wow I'm surprised so many people feed live. I always feed F/T in their tanks, offer prey item with tongs and all my snakes strike feed... especially my Hoggie!!!
Aubrey

I feed my Bp in the cage I also hold her alot except within the 48 hr period after she eats. She seems to know the differance between my hand and a mouse.
She is also very young so it may change as she gets older.

Live in tubs...

I don't have/won't get a BP (I have a Checkered Garter but it eats invertabrates so my choice wasn't for that snake) but the Hoggy I'm going to get in November will hopefully feed on pre-killed mice inside her (I'm getting a female) enclosure.

I feed mine live, in their enclosures:)

I feed live outside the enclosure. At first I heard that it would make them less likely to strike when I opened the drawer, but now I don't believe that it makes any difference. I just do it now out of habit and to give me a chance to clean everybody's cages. They don't seem to mind and I've never had any problems with it.

I can't remember if I responded to this thread or not....lol. I used to feed live but got Spot to take frozen thawed with alittle prey dance.

All of mine get f/t and dine in their enclosures.

:rat:

I Feed FT live and FK and in the enclosure

All my snakes except one eat in their enclosure.

Live in his enclosure. I'd considered having a separate box for feeding, but he eats without issue in his enclosure, and I don't like the idea of handling them immediately after eating.

all in the enclosure but i have 2 that are currently feeding live the rest are f/t

F/T in his enclosure. Depending on how hungry he is he'll grab it as soon as I start lowering it into the cage. I reach into his enclosure fairly often, at least once a day, if not to pick him up then to clean the water, move something that he has rearranged, etc. and so far he has never struck out at me or seemed to mistake me for food.

I was taught way back when to feed live, in their enclosures.
It works easier for us too. I always am there watching carefully.
I was also taught not to handle a snake after a feeding.

A combo- I have some babies that live together, and I won't feed them together, obviously. I feed those kids in a container, separately. My big guys have their own tanks, and they eat in their tanks. We only feed live.

For the record, I have had pet ball pythons on and off since I was a child, and he's had them for years also, and neither of us have ever had a problem with a ball being aggressive due to being fed in his tank.

We just rescued a BP from someone who had him outside all winter (this is Florida, but still!) and had just left rats in the tank for days with him. Poor baby! He seems just fine, but I couldn't believe it.

I feed outside of the enclosure using pre-killed mice.

I feed mine live to give him a workout, make it realistic for him, and not have my lil guy getting weak. I'm a martial artist, so I feel he should be training those coiling/striking skills he naturally has.

:rolleye2:

Mine has only been offered food for the past week because I've had her for 2 weeks and have tried all of the above.

I feed f/t or pk to my corn outside her tank (but it's becoming a hassle and I think I'll just start feeding it to her in her cage.

My bp gets live in his cage.
All of my snakes that I'm going to be receiving will be different for different reasons. I'll probably feed my corn snake in his cage (I'm not worried about him and he eats live so I kinda have to..)
However, the KSB and the RTB that I'm getting I'm going to feed outside their enclosure for two reasons.
They will be on substrate other than just paper towels (like the corns and bp) because they both like to burrow, and I don't want them to eat it.. even though it doesn't cause problems a lot of the time I'm a worry wort.
The second reason is because (not so much for the KSB) I don't want the RTB to get big and associate anything coming from above in his enclosure as food. I know I prescent and use tongs, but still.

Yups.

Always live prey, in his tank, no problemo !

yep, i keep mine in the enclosure, prescent the room, and then (since i feed pinks, f/t or live) i just hold them by the tail and make them do a dance. it seems to work just fine. :D

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

500+ ball pythons every week, all live, all in the enclosure ... never a problem. ;)

-adam

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since i got my snake i've fed on mondays, live, in the enclosure, like this guy right here :P


ive never had a problem feeding, and my snake was in a BAD situation b4 he came to me... he's eaten like a hog since day one with me! live and in his house for sure. i lay a piece of paper over his substrate so he doesn't make a mess tho ;)