my first post w/pics.. DUW

Also, to mention one more thing about why NOT to keep them outside. IF the sun hit the tank, those snakes would bake. Glass will magnify the heat and create a microwave effect.

All of my snakes are kept in tub enclosures. They eat regularly, shed perfectly, are not stressed and the temps and humidity are SO easy to maintain.

If you went to WalMart, you would need:
-Sterilite 15qt tub w/ lid(the clearview type at Target are nice and are as clear as glass), $4 (two of them if you want the enclosures identical, which would be MUCH easier on you and the snakes).
-Binder clips or a small package of small bungee cords to keep lid on, $2-$3
-water bowl, $1-$2
-Plastic planter saucers(the saucer that sits underneath the pot to catch water) you need two of these, they are usually around 50 cents apiece. Cut a hole in the side of both of them and place them upside down.
-Digital thermometer, Acu-Rite brand $11.88(two of them, one for each enclosure)
-Small soldering wand for putting air holes in the tub, $3-$4
-Roll of foil tape to adhere the flexwatt to the tubs, just in case something gets bumped, $6

Then, at www.reptilebasics.com, you would need:
-2ft of 11" flexwatt or call Rich and tell him what your setup is like. He will wire it for you.
-Johnson Controls or Ranco thermostat, $75

I can easily take pictures of my baby setups for you, so you will have a reference. I find it much easier to know what I'm looking for if I have pictures. You could easily get 2 setups for under $90, depending on how you shop. That size tub will be good until the snakes reach about 500-700g(or a year old). Then you could bump them both up to 32qt tubs, which are around $4 apiece or $6.99 for the Clearview ones(I would know, I've bought ENOUGH of them, LOL).

Hope this helps and let me know if you need pictures.

This one was home built by another forum member and I purchased it off of him. Keep in mind, those are full grown BPs in there... and you won't need tubs that size for awhile. You could get smaller tubs for the time being, and then wait to get a rack and all when they get bigger.

And sure! You can still put decorations in the tubs! I just chose not to... that's all about your preference.

yeah, thats what i was saying... to lift it off the other, hey with bins that short and inexpensive i can get more snakes :D lol, now that ive been burned like this it will be awhile before we "Add" and it will be once i save up some money for something cool, maybe a pastel or something to that effect. at least im not feeling so horrible about the whole buying another expensive set up! i dont even need the cast iron stand anymore (it wouldnt fit those bins) hmmm to think what we could put those bins on...

LOL sounds like you've already caught the bug. Already looking at some morphs, eh? :D

Once you get to that point, it's not difficult to build a rack at home. I built one this weekend and the materials cost less than 50 dollars, and I have room for probably 30 snakes. You can see ones people have bought or made in the caging forum.

PERFECT!!! thank you so much for the shopping list, that will most certainly come in handy. i do think i would "splurge" lmao! and get the more clear bins. and for the binder clips i have some here as a matter of fact! i will have to take pics tonight of what we do.. and let you know what the shop owner says about taking the 20gal back.

Target should have those Clearview storage tubs. The numbers are 1756 and 1956 I think. The 15qt tubs would be perfect and shouldn't be more than $3.99. You can use newspaper or aspen for substrate, I just prefer newspaper or kraft paper because when it's clean, it's clean :)

Great thanks.. im not so bummed out and pissed anymore.. just wait till this guys shop opens at noon, oh hell no! and yes ive been looking at those morphs, i think they are way awesome!! it just kills me, they use the uvb bulbs at their shop, have all glass enclosures, keep the babys and juviniles together, exc.. grrrr!!!!! guess ill be looking into another "supplier"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AshleyB

how does the UTH not melt the plastic? its warm/hot? (insert puzzled face) ive been advised to get a thermostat too, lordy lordy if only id known

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Consider that you only want the UTH to heat the inside to 92-94 degrees, that's not warm enough to melt plastic.

UTH'S should always be kept on a thermostat, or they can and will reach temps in the 120's.

Here's what I house my babies in:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/BabyRack.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ub/BabyTub.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/BabyTub2.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...b/PretzelA.jpg

Those are 15 quart tubs, $3 at Dollar General, ventilation holes soldered in the sides. The first picture was taken when they were temporarily being heated with a human heat pad set on the lowest setting (any higher gets too hot), with NO AUTO-OFF feature. I was waiting on an order of Flexwatt (UTH) and a thermostat to come in.

In the second picture above, you can see the AcuRite Digital thermometer, that you can get at Walmart for $12.

This is another picture of it:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...t/Acu-Rite.jpg

The hide on the right side of the picture, in the pictures above is a plastic flower pot saucer with an entrance soldered out. Remember that ball pythons thrive in small tight spaces. Shortly after these pictures were taken, the green hide was removed and replaced with an identical flower pot saucer hide, since the green hide was too big, and it was never utilized by the snake.

As to tacky - for me, it's not about looks, it's about providing the best possible environment for each of my kiddos. For me, tubs work best at maintaining proper temps, humidity, and sense of security that my snakes need. Ball pythons make poor display snakes, since they spend most of their time in their hides.

Plus, I don't find my set-ups to be tacky. :)

Here's how some of my juvie's are set-up:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...Tub/Setup3.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...Tub/Setup1.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...aEnclosure.jpg

Sounds like you got some killer advice here! That is why this forum is the best...

You've also learned a valuable lesson about what pet shops don't know..A lot! :)

Wow, awesome pics, Robin! :rockon:

If you want to meet some real herp saavy people, there is a HUGE reptile expo(and other fun things) in Daytona on August 18-19. You would see tons of Ball Python morphs, get to talk to alot of responsible breeders who know their stuff backwards and forwards, and get alot of education while you're there(oh and have fun too, haha). Alot of people on this site will be going, and we're going to meet up before/during/after the show. You're welcome to join us! :) We're not weird, I promise!

Be sure to talk to Rich @ Reptile Basics, that thermostat is a very essential ingredient in keeping these snakes :) Rich is a nice guy and won't steer ya wrong.

those look great!!!! what awesome displays. i do notice they are stacked on top of each other, is that alright to do? previously said not such a great idea. im so glad i have a shopping list of things to go get, i LOVE SHOPPING lol.. looks like ill have plenty to pick up today. how do you keep their humidity right? how often do you spray the tank? what kind of bedding should i use (not a fan of news paper at the moment) the bedding you have pictured is what i have now for them. and it will last me awhile concidering the size of the tank we were using so it iwll be awhile before i have to buy more. as for the UTH what size/brand are you using currently? can i use a human heating pad for awhile until i get a thermostat like previously stated? is it something i can get at the shop, perhaps with the money i hope to get back? if not i at least have a nice looking tank for something else? if not its going to be a patio ornament for awhile! grrrr

not only that, with the size of the bins concidered i can keep them right whree the 20gal is at the moment. the ease of mind will be so great not worrying if they will hurt one another, i know they are normals but so cute to me.. i really like them as do the children

Can i maybe get some comments on them? seeing as thats how this all started lmao! never thought this post would have 7pages lol


I CANT WAIT to get off work, get shopping, and get home to get those little guys apart.. counting down the minutes till the shop opens!!!!!! cant wait to hear what their response is going to be. looks like ill be finding an alternate shop, anyone know of any local that are "truly reputable"? im in south florida, near ft. lauderdale.

*Is still asleep*

What was the question? :)

i edited that last post & was asking for comments on the babys.. i know they are nothing special though :(

They're all special!

Caution looks to have a nice stripe going down the neck... and his back is black all the way down too.

But Savannah... mmm, dark caramel-y goodness is my fave!

OH! I think they are both cutie patooties! Once they start eating consistently and getting their chub on, they will look even better.

I still think normals, as varying as they are, are my favorite. :)

i like them :D i think caution has some nice yellow color to him IRL, the pics arent great though.. i know hes on the skinney side and yes that bothers me but maybe with him being alone and having a chance to settle down he will do better?

Definitely! Once he realizes that icky girl(from his point of view, being a little boy and all) isn't in his room anymore, he'll hopefully start eating well.

And I'm sure Savannah thinks he's an icky boy too! Cooties!

LOL.. YALL are great. thanks so much for everything.. at first i had a bit of a bad taste in my mouth of this forum, a bit overwhelming having people jump down your throat off the bat lol. yeah ick cooties lol

i still have questions about what size/brand of UTH, and sticking them directly to the bins.. are those UTH basically bad from there on out, meaning you cant take them off and put on bigger bins when they get older. it says right on box not to move them once they are stuck.. so much for the one stuck to the tank i have now again grrr.. i called the shop and the owner wont be in until 1pm guess ill know from there how much he will give me, maybe enough for a third snake ?????? lol guess ill have to see. even if he gives me 100 (i paid 187 for everything including snake that was listed at 69) ill be happy, so will he if i buy another snake from him :mad:

The size of the heat pad depends on the size of the tub. If you get a smaller tub, you'll want to get a smaller pad. Plus, once you get a thermostat, it won't matter... the pad will put out as much heat as the stat tells it to.


Also, you don't have to take the sticky off. Just leave the waxy paper on---it's works just fine with it still on---and use the tape Becky mentioned early to stick the pad onto the tub. That way, you can reuse it.

awesome!!! and the tape that was listed before is ok to use to stick it? lol what a mouthfull that was. ill be sure to pick some up.

I have restuck UTHs before. The adhesive will be a little nasty, but it usually will go right back on another surface.

I'm glad you feel more positive about things now. :)

I reuse my UTH's all the time. The sticky is pretty worn off, so I use foil tape to apply them to the few freestanding tubs I use for quarentine.

Mine are all the Zoo-Med brand from Petsmart.

I've heard that heat pads made for humans are not a good idea, as they tend to temp-spike and then shut off.

Well, sometimes you can remove them using a credit card, or maybe a QTip with some of the Goo Be Gone stuff that gets rid of glue? Just be VERY careful not to bend or twist it or it could break some of the elements inside.

The other alternative, flexwatt, is only around $3.20 per foot, plus the $2-something that Rich charges for the cord/clips to wire it, then the shipping($8). But if you're getting the thermostat too, it will help spread out that shipping cost more. It is VERY safe stuff, you just have to use a tstat or a dimmer with it.

Oh and the foil tape, is found in the painting section at WalMart(where the blue tape and other stuff is). It's $4-something or maybe $5-something for the roll. Very worth it though and it tolerates high heat without melting and getting gross

can i buy a thermstat locally? if so where and i suppose ill have to learn how to set it up too? yikes.. its just that 75 a peice seems a bit steep for my pockets right now

If you can't afford a thermostat right away, you can use a dimmer or rheostat. They don't automatically adjust to the right temperature, they just keep a constant amount of energy to the heat source depending on what level you set it to. They WILL need tweaking, no where near as accurate as a thermostat, but till you can get one, it will work.

You can use one thermostat for multiple cages... you can just plug both heat pads into the one thermostat.


And they're not hard to use... lol, if I can do it! ;)

EDIT: Locally, it might be hard to find one. You'll probably have to order one.

Can i get that at target or wal*mart too? is there a brand or picture? how much do you think they run for? how do they control the ammount of heat (in other words how will i know its right besides temp in tank. do i put the thermometer towards the bottom (its belly temp thats important right?)

THANKS again i feel like such an amature idiot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AshleyB

those look great!!!! what awesome displays. i do notice they are stacked on top of each other, is that alright to do? previously said not such a great idea. im so glad i have a shopping list of things to go get, i LOVE SHOPPING lol.. looks like ill have plenty to pick up today. how do you keep their humidity right? You'll actually find that just the water dish evaporation will provide perfect humidity (or at least it does for me) how often do you spray the tank? I don't spray my enclosures, my humidity stays a constant 55% what kind of bedding should i use (not a fan of news paper at the moment) the bedding you have pictured is what i have now for them. You're using Aspen and that's fine. and it will last me awhile concidering the size of the tank we were using so it iwll be awhile before i have to buy more. as for the UTH what size/brand are you using currently? On a 15 quart tub, I'd get a 1 foot section of 3" Flexwatt - pre-wired from Rich at reptilebasics.com can i use a human heating pad for awhile until i get a thermostat like previously stated? I'd only recommend it temporarily until you can get a UTH and a good quality thermostat - both enclosures, if they are identical, can be run on one thermostat - I use Ranco, also from Rich. At the very least, have the digital thermometer so that you can make sure that the human heat pad is not too hot. Give it several hours to regulate the temps before adding the snakes - it takes awhile to get up to temps, and you might think it's not heating well and set it too high. Get a human heat pad with NO Auto Off feature. is it something i can get at the shop, perhaps with the money i hope to get back? I don't know of any shops that sell Flexwatt. if not i at least have a nice looking tank for something else? if not its going to be a patio ornament for awhile! grrrr

not only that, with the size of the bins concidered i can keep them right whree the 20gal is at the moment. the ease of mind will be so great not worrying if they will hurt one another, i know they are normals but so cute to me.. i really like them as do the children

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the themometer has a humidity gage too right? guess i need to check back at the previous pages.

for quick refrence what do the temps need to be?

humidity=
heat=
how much bedding is enough bedding? ive heard they can wriggle the bedding aside and more or less expose their bellys to UTH

Heat: 82-84 cool side, 92-94 warm side 24/7/365 (Mine are kept at 95/84)
Humidity 50-60%, and up to 65-70% when shedding, but I usually don't have to raise it, they shed fine at 55-60%.

That gauge does have a humidity reader on it, and will measure two different temps at once. So you'll want to put the unit on the cool side, and run the probe to the warm side, and underneath the hide.

If using aspen, a 1/2" is fine. Bedding is just used to absorb liquids, and a layer that is too thick will just create a barrier and won't let the heat through. You can use a layer of newspaper underneath if you want to, just until you get your thermostat.

okie dokie.. good informatio :sunny: looks like ill be charging my camera today, maybe get some nice head shots of them both

Ashley, not much to add really, you've received some excellent advice other than you've learned the pet store lesson. Yes they keep multiple snakes in a single glass tub with overhead lights, they also tend to have snakes that aren't eating, have parasitic issues, respiratory issues, stuck sheds and generally it's a mess. There are some really awesome pet stores but they tend to deal exclusively in reptiles and are few and far between. Your average pet store person hasn't a clue no matter how "big" they talk.

We have 18 ball pythons from baby 07's up to big breeding size females. All live in plastic bins and all are thriving. If you want a nice bin that both works well and you can see into very easily call around to your local OfficeMax stores and ask if they stock a brand called "Iris". They are amazing. Glass clear, all the benefits of plastic and the interior is smooth which means no ridges to trap nasty feces and urine (makes your life easier for clean up). They are maybe a dollar or two more than Rubbermaid or Sterlite but in my opinion far superior as far as tubs go. They do require, like all tubs, binder clips or something to keep that lid tight (anything over 1/8" give and you've got a loose snake).

For now until you can get a proper tstat you can hit Home Depot or any department store and get a plug in lamp dimmer. It's not a perfect option but at least it will exert some control over heating elements and make them safer for your snakes. They usually run about $10 and are in the electrical/light fixture area.

Aspen as a bedding is quite safe for your babies and can be found at WalMart in a compressed bag for about $4.00. Once it's fluffed up, it will last you quite awhile with the two baby tubs. Don't buy it from pet stores, it's the same stuff but the pet stores charge twice the price. WalMart usually stocks a nice fine shred aspen in their pet department.

For hides, hit the dollar store. Anything small, dark and easy to clean is a perfect snake hide. Mine love plastic cereal bowls. No need to get fancy with baby hides especially, they outgrow them and really the snake could care less.

Do grab a cheap soldering wand if you don't have one (about $6.00). For melting holes in tubs and in hides....invaluable thing to have around!

Im so looking forward to doing this today, i cant begin to tell you how much its helped learning this lesson. Im usually so much better about the research and doing things "right" i have no idea what got into us, almost like we went on an impulse, shame on us. I hope to find lagit place local or i will be doing all my purchases online through some of you for those more "Rare" finds. i just hope this guy can make right and at least buy back the tank and lid.. even if thats all i get out of him. ill eat the cost of the bulbs and lamps if i have to but hope he can take those as well, after all now they will just be dust collectors. from the sounds of it i have plenty of bedding. PHEW lots of work to do today

our target carries those iris bins :D

Ashley don't be at all surprised if the pet store refuses to buy back that tank and lid. The fact is they sold it to you as a tank and lid and it is in fact a perfectly fine tank and lid so really, they aren't responsible for the fact that's it's not terribly useful to you. Hopefully they will be nice and do the refund, I just don't want you to be overly shocked if they don't.

You may end up having to list it on craigslist or whatever and sell it as basically a brand new tank since it's seen next to no use. You'll still lose some money but at least it won't be a total wash. You're not the first nor will you be the last that got the sales rush at the pet store and bought a snake and equipment for more than they should of or without enough research. It happens. Now the important thing is that you are striving to do right by the two baby BP's. We'll help you get them set up properly without breaking your wallet. :)

i dont be surprised but i have to at least try. i have used craigslist alot and never even thought about that to buy a tank lol.. ill be sure to let those of you curious what happens, i cant wait to get these guys alone :D

I've never bought a new tank LOL. I tend to grab them up at yard sales, craigslist or people that know I need tanks give them to me. We breed and raise rats for feeders so I use a lot of tanks for that. As well our milksnake and the two boas all live in their own tanks.

AWESOME!

i just noticed you live in toledo, my family is from there. my mom lived there until she was 13 and lots of our relatives (aunts.cousins.uncles.exc) are all from there!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AshleyB

AWESOME!

i just noticed you live in toledo, my family is from there. my mom lived there until she was 13 and lots of our relatives (aunts.cousins.uncles.exc) are all from there!!!!

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Which means you're Buckeye fans and not crazy Florida fans, right????

GO BUCKS!:rockon:

Well if you're ever up this way Ashley do let me know. You can come meet our various snakes (don't be surprised if you get roped into tank/tub cleaning duties...everyone around here does...even our 6 year old son LOL).

Welcome aboard Ashley I wanted t let you know that I to was given alot of bad husbandry info when I first started out in this great hobby(lifestyle). If you look back nearly two year's ago when I started out our thread's are almost identical. You'll learn everything you need about bp's on the best ball python forum in the game just absorb the info and apply it. Again welcome aboard

That middle pic looks like my little one. however he is not that little anymore he seems to be growing what seems to be 6 inches a month !!!!!!!!!

we did our shopping and my husband is doing the holes right now.. ill be sure to let you all see the end result :D

Well, welcome belatedly to the forum :) I am very glad that you are listening to the advice here. We are people that have been keeping and breeding these snakes for.. well.. a lot of years combined. (Has anyone ever added our cumulative years of snake experience? if so, that is a good idea!)
They are lovely snakes by the way.

both of them are relaxing in their new homes... each under their pottery hides :D not to get the temps regulated, pics in husbandry section

Awesome :) Temperature regulation can be a pup though.. are you using a thermostat or rheostat? I would prattle on more, but it depends on what you're using, on what advice I can give.

WHOA WHOA WHOA!!! now the temps are reading 106.1 i need to go get a thermostat NOW, they didnt have one at home depot or target, they had one at pet world but it was 30 is that too much? at this point dont i need to get them turned off! i unpluged them!!! im going to go over to petworld again and get the thermostat, this is too high and i know it!

Ashley, go get a dimmer switch at Home Depot for now. It will work until you can get a good thermostat! :D