Pit Bulls

Yeah, Jess can eat up a persons reputation. Shame on her! ;)

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Originally Posted by gibbrishclown

Great points!... I got a message telling me I had spread too much reputation for this 24 hour period... didn't know that could happen :D But now I'll have to just post that I like a post rather than spreading rep for the next 24 Heh heh heh :cool:

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LOL I'm repped out for this thread too! Nice to see so many fans of the breed standing up for them!

On Court Tv's message board on the animal forum (they just gave it back to us after almost a year without) there was a pit bulls are the devil thread but it's turned into 5 pages of people telling their my pit is the coolest, mine's a service dog, mine blah blah blah thread... the haters don't stand a chance :D

I've had to go through the same explanations on behalf of my Husky (who is an addicted snuggle bug) and my Boxer (who I must say has without a doubt the best temperment of any dog I've ever owned).

My pits were childhood pets, and my first ever girl, an all-white pit named Prissy, was my best friend and a constant guardian. She was mindful of my protection at all times, and would get upset and protective if my dad and I were rough-housing or he was spinning me around. I can understand where the "nanny" term comes from. Just had to give some love to my girl. :D

Boxers are seriously awesome... I think a pit x boxer is an ideal dog. (if you can't have one of mine that is :D) I've seen Proof get funny about people swinging kids around too, and I also saw her discipline my friends pit x boxer when he mouthed my friend's arm in my living room one day. Some day she'll have kids of her own to care for, but for now she's content to be my second in command... Prissy sounds amazing! I wanted a white pit before I met Proof... I still love the look!! :beer:

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Originally Posted by darkangel

Wow, aren't we nasty.

And yeah, if you were a little kid and a poodle attacked you, you probably wouldn't laugh.

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A little bit, yes. My apologies. And I was "attacked" by my own standard poodle when I was 5 years old and I'm missing a piece of one of my right knuckles (a small one, but still...) He was in full stride when I grabbed his back leg, so I had it coming. So shouldn't I be more afraid of poodles, one of which attacked me, then pitbulls, one of which attacked my poodle?

With as many pit fans as we have it's a shame we can step it up to voice our opinions on the BSL that's sweeping the nation.

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Originally Posted by nebby3103

A little bit, yes. My apologies. And I was "attacked" by my own standard poodle when I was 5 years old and I'm missing a piece of one of my right knuckles (a small one, but still...) He was in full stride when I grabbed his back leg, so I had it coming. So shouldn't I be more afraid of poodles, one of which attacked me, then pitbulls, one of which attacked my poodle?

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To a degree, I would think so... Seeing as how you were personally injured by one, and the other was after your dog, but that's my opinion only.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

With as many pit fans as we have it's a shame we can step it up to voice our opinions on the BSL that's sweeping the nation.

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bandaid legislation... the powers that be want to appear to be doing something... My hope is that with this new federal bill passed about animal fighting that we'll start seeing more of these thugs imprisoned and unfortunately there will be a lot of potentially great dogs killed, but my hope is that one day there will be fewer bred irresponsibly and fewer in the hands of horrible owners... Personally I'd like to see all dog breeding being done by licensed professionals educated like a vet and inspected by the USDA and a law in place against having your pet unspeutered... but that's a gibbrishclown fantasy right there... :(

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Originally Posted by westcoastjungle

My dog trainer told me don't even play tug of war with a dog. You are insighting competitive behavior which is how dogs learn who is the pack leader.

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Just an interesting note to add to this idea: I was told long ago by a trainer that IF you choose to play tug-of-war with your dog, don't let it win. If you can't win, don't play. So I guess it's really about establishing your dominance over the animal.

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Originally Posted by nebby3103

Just an interesting note to add to this idea: I was told long ago by a trainer that IF you choose to play tug-of-war with your dog, don't let it win. If you can't win, don't play. So I guess it's really about establishing your dominance over the animal.

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Exactly!! :rockon:

I've been told the same thing. When we play in any way rough, my boxer goes straight into "competition mode" and you really have to get her attention to snap her out of it.

When I can get my girls to tug, I win, but it's rare they'll tug or anything... sometimes Proof will get a wild hair and want to grapple or tug, but usually they either wanna play ball or snuggle or chew on their own... I always win though... no matter what! I tell anyone who wants to play rough with them (usually young men who think they're tough) that if they get their fingers in the mix and get bit, I have no pity, and if they can't win, they can't play... I love to see them tuck their figurative tails when they realize they've started something they can't finish... thankfully my girls aren't the sort to take advantage of them :D although Proof... Proof will teach a lesson.

This one kid wanted her to grapple with him. She was young and in her prime.. her back legs were 5 inches across in the back... old girl was a power house in her prime... she's only 5 now and still smokin' hot, but nothing like when she was 2...anyway I told him that wasn't something she was inclined to do under normal circumstances, but being full of whatever 18 year old boys are full of, he started shoving her around and pulling on her neck and slapping at her... she didn't respond... I told the boy that the way to instigate a fight with Proof was to mess with her flanks or her feet, those are usually her only real trigger spots... she resisted his attempts still... it wasn't till he pulled on her ears and HURT HER that she started doing what this boy wanted. (I have a lot of trust in Proof, I really don't recommend picking at a pit bull like this or any dog for that matter it's stupid, and this kid learned that the only way he was going to) She growled lightly and got into her bow stance... numb***s leaned over her and raised his hands threateningly at her, and she lunged at him... mouth closed and head butted him... kid saw stars and fell back... she then stood on his chest! that boy learned from that at least not to mess with Proof.. I hope he learned a deeper lesson...

See what I mean, she's just good people... I'm headed home to snuggle with her right now! :D

Partial List
http://www.inkednation.com/images/us...7102165041.jpg

I'm sure all of your pit bulls are angels. This is also a website full of people who like and truely care about animals. As I said before, I like pit bulls, but I'm not in denial about their instincts and physical capabilities. I am not only going by what I see in the media. As I also said before, I have personally seen 2 pits nearly maul two small girls walking down the street. Others here have seen the same thing. And I've seen plenty of loose dogs. Is it the owner's abuse that causes it? Possibally. If they were a different breed would the same abuse lead to the near mauling? Maybe. Can a loving, nurturing home demolish a dog's natural instincts? Hell no. Were and are pits bred to fight and be aggressive, powerful and deadly? Hell yes. Can they make good pets? Sure. Do they make the sweetest, most wonderful pet dogs? See above.

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Originally Posted by nebby3103

Just an interesting note to add to this idea: I was told long ago by a trainer that IF you choose to play tug-of-war with your dog, don't let it win. If you can't win, don't play. So I guess it's really about establishing your dominance over the animal.

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I WON!!!


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...e/meeee057.jpg

but she was a good sport ;)

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I'm sure all of your pit bulls are angels.

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Mine is! :D


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...meeee033-4.jpg

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Partial List

I'm sure all of your pit bulls are angels. This is also a website full of people who like and truely care about animals. As I said before, I like pit bulls, but I'm not in denial about their instincts and physical capabilities. I am not only going by what I see in the media. As I also said before, I have personally seen 2 pits nearly maul two small girls walking down the street. Others here have seen the same thing. And I've seen plenty of loose dogs. Is it the owner's abuse that causes it? Possibally. If they were a different breed would the same abuse lead to the near mauling? Maybe. Can a loving, nurturing home demolish a dog's natural instincts? Hell no. Were and are pits bred to fight and be aggressive, powerful and deadly? Hell yes. Can they make good pets? Sure. Do they make the sweetest, most wonderful pet dogs? See above.

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The Center for Disease Control quit tracking breed stats on bite reports nine years ago, as they determined that the data was not accurately recorded enough to have any value.

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Originally Posted by jeffnme

Mine is! :D


http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...meeee033-4.jpg

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Awwww...too cute!

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

Awwww...too cute!

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thanks! I got Sway about a year ago an she is TRULY my best friend! She always sleeps with me and she is GREAT with people to include strangers. You just have to watch out for those danng tails! They'll knock you over from wagging them so hard! LOL! :laughing:

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Originally Posted by slartibartfast

The Center for Disease Control quit tracking breed stats on bite reports nine years ago, as they determined that the data was not accurately recorded enough to have any value.

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OK, I'm completely wrong. And blind.

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

I have two pit bulls. I do not deny that pit bulls can, have, and will, injure other people and dogs. However, I also believe that such happenings are completely under the control of the owner. Having a pit bull is different from having any other kind of dog. They need special attention, and a lot of constant disipline. My rule with my boys is lots of disipline and lots of love.
My dogs are not allowed to ever think that they are the boss. They are not allowed to disobey or ignore a command. My boys are worked in their obdience every day, indivdually, and all of my attention is given to the one I am working. I feel this is necessary if you are going to keep a pit bull as a pet. It takes a lot of extra time and effort, but it is crutial if one is to keep a well mannered pit bull that behaves and obeys.
I know that there are people who are afraid of them and have been hurt by them. But do you really know exactly how their owners treat them when there is no one around to see? How often do these people work their dogs? It is not the dogs fault, they act as they are allowed to by the people they live with.
As for the person who said they believe what they said in the media, allow me to share with you a happening in my group of pit bull supporters.
One of our members was bitten by a lab. He was walking past the yard, the dog jumped the fence and bit him. The owners delt with the issue with understand and politeness, the dog was taken to a vet and examined, the man's medical bills were paid.
We discussed it at our next meeting, he said he was going to call the media, he did and was compeltely ignored when he said a lab bit him. The next week he called the media again and this time changed the biting dog to a pit bull, by that evening he had 3 media vans in front of his house.
Pit bulls are not the only dogs that bite, they are the only dogs that make news when they do it.

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Originally Posted by nebby3103

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

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Quotes directly from that link:

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The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)

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• Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner or handler most often is responsible for making a dog into something dangerous.

• An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).

• Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be potentially dangerous. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.

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The statistics cited earlier are taken not from the CDC's medical report database, but from media reports. This is -not- a valid source of data, IMO. If the CDC can't get valid data out of the reports required by law to be submtited following every documented bite incident, then how can you get reasonable data from media articles? The media loves a good story, and nothing is better than another pitbull run amuck to get people buying and selling. Why on earth would you trust data from a source dedicated to selling sensationalism?

I've never owned a pit before but have been around many, I myself have a great way with dogs for some reason so I've never really had a problem. I have to agree with everyone going the route of people not taking care of these dogs properly. Whatever genetic disposition that may exist in a dog can be corrected instantly by an owner who has trained and established himself as dominant.

A well trained, well exercised dog is a stable dog. When people keep them locked in cages all day, and them let them loose to run around the yard as their only means of exercise does nothing to them mentally. Dogs need to be part of a pack, need to be walked everyday with the owner leading the show; not the dog pulling and leading the owner around like I usually see.

Many pit owners do not put in the time or effort to make these animals stable and healthy. They are energy powerhouses and need to do something with that energy, if not exercise with its owner, fight. Who's fault is that in the end?

I think everyone needs to realize that the great equalizer to this problem would be people. People need to care for these breeds properly.

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Originally Posted by Mina

I have two pit bulls. I do not deny that pit bulls can, have, and will, injure other people and dogs. However, I also believe that such happenings are completely under the control of the owner. Having a pit bull is different from having any other kind of dog. They need special attention, and a lot of constant disipline. My rule with my boys is lots of disipline and lots of love.
My dogs are not allowed to ever think that they are the boss. They are not allowed to disobey or ignore a command. My boys are worked in their obdience every day, indivdually, and all of my attention is given to the one I am working. I feel this is necessary if you are going to keep a pit bull as a pet. It takes a lot of extra time and effort, but it is crutial if one is to keep a well mannered pit bull that behaves and obeys.

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That's all I've neen saying. The same can be said about any mammal that is predisposed to be aggressive or dangerous. People work with Lions, tigers and bears (oh my) all the time and say what amazing animals a well trained animal can be. But they, like pit bulls need extra special care and discipline, and even that doesn't guaranty that their natural instincts will never show. Ask Sigfried and Roy. I personally want a wolf/husky hybrid and maybe even a bobcat/bengal/house cat hybrid when I have a house in a rural area with a huge fenced in yard and a large outdoor cat enclosure. I will probably have a pit bull or two as well. I will give them a ton of attention, training and discipline to reduce their needs to rely on their aggressive instincts. I will assure people that mine are friendly and safe when or if they are. Does this mean that these are to be considered safe and friendly in general? If they never become fully tame or docile enough for me not to trust them around other people, does that mean I abuse or neglect them, or that I teach them to be mean? No, it means they are genetically predisposed to be aggressive hunters. Even if a million people owned these as pets, and all of them did a good job at training them, that doesn't change what they are. Just like the pitbull owners who do a good job raising theirs to be cuddly pets doesn't change the genetically instilled disposition of this aggressive, dominating breed of dog. And whether the statistics are acurate or not, I'm suprised that there are people on this site who deny this aggressive predisposition, when they know what pits were, and are, bred for, as well as the outcome of line breeding for specific traits in animals and humans.

P.S. I don't want to hear how my analogy isn't relavant. I think my retic one was better, but since snakes "aren't sophisticated mammals", this is the best I can do.

I don't understand... just about every post here admits that we understand the reason they were bred, but can you totally ignore that other breeds of dog can be just as dangerous? The lab story? The pomeranian example? You make it sound like every other breed of dog is just a little angel. Media loves sensation, and nothing is more sensational than villifying a dog that has a reputation of being mean and being bred to be a killer. I'm surprised after all the posts that you would even consider owning a wolf/husky hybrid, which is basically a wild animal. I don't want to get in a huge fight, I just really don't understand...

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Originally Posted by darkangel

I don't understand... just about every post here admits that we understand the reason they were bred, but can you totally ignore that other breeds of dog can be just as dangerous? The lab story? The pomeranian example? You make it sound like every other breed of dog is just a little angel. Media loves sensation, and nothing is more sensational than villifying a dog that has a reputation of being mean and being bred to be a killer. I'm surprised after all the posts that you would even consider owning a wolf/husky hybrid, which is basically a wild animal. I don't want to get in a huge fight, I just really don't understand...

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I don't think every other breed is an angel. But even if those statistics are off by 50%, which would be a huge stretch of the imagination, that would still show that pits are way more aggressive and dangerous than any other breed, except maybe rotts. Here is my rott/mix puppy by the way.
http://inkednation.com/images/user_a...7102204636.jpg
One Pomeranian story compared to over a thousand Pit stories really proves your point. No, it proves my point. And why on Earth would you be suprised that I would want to own a wolf/husky hybrid? Did you see how they compare to Pits, which I said I would also own? I also said I know that they are not domesticated animals and I wouldn't own one unless I had a ton of fenced in land, and that I wouldn't let it around strangers until/if I was ever sure it was trained and nurtured well enough to greatly lower any risk of it being anything but sweet. If you just really don't understand, simply pull your head out of your sand and read my other posts, along with the data. I occasionally like to play devil's advocate for a challenging discussion, but this is like shooting fish mounted to a wall, then people telling me I'm playing soccer. I'm just baffled.

Wow. Really nice. Well I'm done here. Some people can't have a debate without just being plain nasty. You seem to being completely unwilling to even acknowledge that there's another side from your own.

I appologize if I came off nasty. I never meant to and I have agreed with a lot of things the pit bull defenders have said. I think way more so than any of you admit to the truths of what the other side have brought up. And again, I'm not anti-pit, I like them and will probably own one or two when I have the proper environment and time. I would just like to hear more of you admit that pit bulls are a much greater risk to safety than the average breed of dog. That's all.

People can come up with all the statistics they want. Doesn't change the fact that I own two pitbulls and they are the sweetest, most gentle dogs you will ever meet. Neither one has ever shown a hint of aggression towards a person or animal. Are they more capable of causing damage to a person than a beagle? Of course. I am a firm believer that the majority of overly aggressive pitbulls are a result of bad owners. There just happens to be a lot more bad people that own pitbulls and train them to be aggressive than alot of other breeds. If my town ever made the decision to enact a ban on pits, I would move.

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Originally Posted by AK4900PA

People can come up with all the statistics they want. Doesn't change the fact that I own two pitbulls and they are the sweetest, most gentle dogs you will ever meet. Neither one has ever shown a hint of aggression towards a person or animal. Are they more capable of causing damage to a person than a beagle? Of course. I am a firm believer that the majority of overly aggressive pitbulls are a result of bad owners. There just happens to be a lot more bad people that own pitbulls and train them to be aggressive than alot of other breeds. If my town ever made the decision to enact a ban on pits, I would move.

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I've talked about this. Sigfried and Roy had similar sweet tigers. They were then about 2 seconds away from being a one man act. My wolf/husky and bobcat/bengal/house cat will be just as sweet when I'm done raising them. That doesn't change their geneticly aggressive disposition. I continue to say that pits can make wonderful sweet pets with the proper upbringing. That doesn't change what they are. And once again, why do people who want an overly aggressive killer of a dog always buy a pitbull? No reason, I'm sure.

A tiger. A retic, and now a tiger. I think you should draw comparisons to something more comparable, like other breeds of dog. You don't require a special license to own a pit bull, and tigers are not a part of thousands of families. There is a general consensus that tigers are in fact quite dangerous and deadly. Obviously there is a split issue with pits.

Edit: You know what? Just forget I said this.. I don't like to argue, I said I was done, so I'm done. :D

I have heard plenty of stories from nieghbors and in the news about family memebers who own pits, and they all said the same thing. this is the sweetest dog he/she is great with kids and other dogs. But I would never own one, and most of them had turned on a family member or pet of thiers or nieghbors. We had Three attacks in one summer. Thankfully no person got hurt, but the other dogs did, it took four people to beat this pit off this dog. then the owner came over and was pulling by the coller and couldnt do it, theres was no command she said or anything she did that would make her pit release. we had to pull on the pits coller and twist it to cut his air intake to baically choke him to make it release. Now for how it all happened. This girls son was going out to play and before he could shut the front door the pit pushed him out of the way and made a b-line for the nieghbors yard and to thier dog who ran in front of his owners kids that were in the pits path. it was mauled. In front of tons of kids and grown ups. Granted this was NOT a good owner for this breed(from past happenings) Another guy was walking two of his pit WITHOUT leases and the charged another nieghbors dogs. Same outcome. I know this is only two of the three in my nieghborhood and there are some good pits out there but if my next door nieghbor had any of them i Personally would make sure ALL vicious dog laws in my city were being follwed by them. Everyone in my nieghborhood makes sure that everyone follows leas laws for all breeds but with the vicious dog label comes extra laws to follow..

just my 2cents and my thoughts, take or leave um.

not to say all pits are bad. i due have friends with them.

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Originally Posted by darkangel

A tiger. A retic, and now a tiger. I think you should draw comparisons to something more comparable, like other breeds of dog. You don't require a special license to own a pit bull, and tigers are not a part of thousands of families. There is a general consensus that tigers are in fact quite dangerous and deadly. Obviously there is a split issue with pits.

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Well, the data shows that if I compared a pit to other breeds of dogs, pits would be about 500x - 1,000x more dangerous than about 90% of other dogs. Again the data could be inaccurate. But look how inaccurate it would have to be to make pits on the same level as other breeds. I still stick with all of my analogies as being fair for what they were intended to say. Pits are a split issue, but the people who don't agree that they are genetically and instictively predisposed to be killers and are a much larger threat to public safety as a breed, compared to other breeds, are either ignorant or ridiculously stubborn and closed-minded or worse.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I went ahead and split the thread as it was veering off-topic. Anyway, I feel that the issue is both an ownership and species problem. Pits were bred to fight, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all of them are aggressive. However, it is still an instict that they have. Many dogs were bred for specific instincts: retrieving, following scents, chasing rabbits, etc. Pits were bred to have a low pain threshold and to fight which is probably why the attack and death statistics are so high for them and Rottweilers.

Going back to the last topic, I would feel much more comfortable if one of my neighbors were breeding snakes in a room than if they had a couple of loose pits running around... or any large dog for that matter.

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i have a 3yr old pit that was "breed to fight" and she'll retrieve any thing you throw her way, some times she'll pick up on a sent she likes and follows it for a min., when she's out side she will chase a rabbit out of the yard, and if some one/thing shows aggression tward my husband or me she will attack just like any dog would. this "fighter" sleeps in our bed under the covers, when the heat is on she'll sleep on the vent, and when i come home from work she and the cat are on the sofa watching animal planet. i'll get down from :soapbx: . its just i look at lexi and hear people like you, who has no kind of experince with pits, say things like that. are we really talking about the same dog? or are you grouping a hand full of dogs (purebred or just a little pit) that were raised in such god awful ways you'd be :puke: , in with entire breed?

I know you weren't talking about me, but I have a ton of pit bull experience for the record.

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Originally Posted by Thunder Kat

i have a 3yr old pit that was "breed to fight" and she'll retrieve any thing you throw her way, some times she'll pick up on a sent she likes and follows it for a min., when she's out side she will chase a rabbit out of the yard, and if some one/thing shows aggression tward my husband or me she will attack just like any dog would. this "fighter" sleeps in our bed under the covers, when the heat is on she'll sleep on the vent, and when i come home from work she and the cat are on the sofa watching animal planet. i'll get down from :soapbx: . its just i look at lexi and hear people like you, who has no kind of experince with pits, say things like that. are we really talking about the same dog? or are you grouping a hand full of dogs (purebred or just a little pit) that were raised in such god awful ways you'd be :puke: , in with entire breed?

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Wow. Exactly what did I say that got you so riled up? That Pits were bred to fight and to have a high pain threshold? That's a simple fact and nothing more.

If you look through the posts on this thread, there are a number of people that have given personal accounts of a Pits propensity to fight. I have my own personal experiences that I haven't mentioned, but I didn't see the point.

Yes, I know many people have loving, wonderful, caring Pits that they would trust in a room full of fluffy bunnies and newborns. That doesn't change the fact that these dogs were bred to fight. I don't think they're "monsters". I don't think they should be banned. But I recognize them for what they are and what they were bred for... something that seems to escape many Pit owners.

Personally, I could care less who keeps what kind of dog. I think you should have a right to keep whatever animal you'd like as long as you are held responsible for what the well-being of that animal and the actions of that animal.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I've talked about this. Sigfried and Roy had similar sweet tigers. They were then about 2 seconds away from being a one man act. My wolf/husky and bobcat/bengal/house cat will be just as sweet when I'm done raising them. That doesn't change their geneticly aggressive disposition. I continue to say that pits can make wonderful sweet pets with the proper upbringing. That doesn't change what they are. And once again, why do people who want an overly aggressive killer of a dog always buy a pitbull? No reason, I'm sure.

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I don't think anyone would argue that pitbulls are physically capable of causing more harm than most other breeds, but I don't believe for a second that they are "genetically aggressive". At least not towards people. They are more likely to be "animal aggressive", but for the most part any aggressiveness towards people can be traced back to the training and/or upbringing they recieved. My dogs play with other animals, adults and children on a regular basis and are very well socialized. I would never allow my dogs around young kids unsupervised, but that would be the case even if I had a pair of basset hounds.

Unfortunately bad people gravitate towards pitbulls because they have a reputation for being aggressive. These people go out of their way to train the animal to be aggressive which just helps to further the stigma.

I'm sorry, but comparing pitbulls to tigers is just stupid. Your talking about animals that have been domestically bred as household pets for hundreds of years versus animals that are only one or two generations away from their wild counterparts.

Well, me an my incredibly dangerous and vicious pitbulls are off to bed now. I hope they don't attack me in my sleep!!!:rolleyes:

Actually pit bulls were bred for bull baiting, after bull baiting was banned they switched to ratting, in which the dogs were put in a pit with rats and the greater number they killed in a certain time limit the better the score. It wasn't until the late 1800's that they started fighting the dogs with each other.

So no, they were not originally bred to fight.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

So no, they were not originally bred to fight.

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Bull Baiting: where specially-trained dogs would be set upon the bull one at a time, a successful attack resulting in the dog fastening his teeth strongly in the bull's snout.

Not a far stretch from fighting. They were bred to be determined, fearless, attack, and have a high pain threshold.

http://www.wikd.org/pitbull/pitflash.swf

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Actually pit bulls were bred for bull baiting, after bull baiting was banned they switched to ratting, in which the dogs were put in a pit with rats and the greater number they killed in a certain time limit the better the score. It wasn't until the late 1800's that they started fighting the dogs with each other.

So no, they were not originally bred to fight.

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They weren't bred to fight, silly, they were bred to kill things...

Yes, that's right. I'll remind Ty of that next time he's getting his hiney handed to him by a cat 1/4 his weight. You can see the shifty look of the vicious killer right here. :rolleyes: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/IMG_0341.jpg

There is very little comparison between the domestic pitbulls you see today and the animals that were bred 200 years ago for bullbaiting.

The national canine temperment testing association tested 122 breeds. Pitbulls ranked 4th with a 95% passing rate.

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Yes, that's right. I'll remind Ty of that next time he's getting his hiney handed to him by a cat 1/4 his weight. You can see the shifty look of the vicious killer right here. :rolleyes:

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Hey, you said it, not me. They were bred to bite bulls, but when that was outlawed they used them to kill rats for sport. Then, and only then, were they used to fight other dogs.

Well if we talk about animals bred to kill. Rat Terriers, Scottish Terriers, Doxies were used to force badgers out of their dens (fearless dogs right there, better ban them), Irish Wolfhounds were bred to pull down deer as were Deerhounds. Most sighthounds in general were bred to kill or at least bring down a larger animal and thus are more fearless, determined and some even have a higher pain thresh hold.
But, back to killing.
Better start legislation on those evil Rat terriers.



And if we're doing videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOUwYIzhkdk

Would you please point me to exactly which post in this thread stated that Pits should be banned or legislation should be enacted against Pits or Pit owners?

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Originally Posted by Entropy

Well if we talk about animals bred to kill. Rat Terriers, Scottish Terriers, Doxies were used to force badgers out of their dens (fearless dogs right there, better ban them), Irish Wolfhounds were bred to pull down deer as were Deerhounds. Most sighthounds in general were bred to kill or at least bring down a larger animal and thus are more fearless, determined and some even have a higher pain thresh hold.
But, back to killing.
Better start legislation on those evil Rat terriers.

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No post, just many areas in general. I should have made it clear that talk of banning or legislation was mainly in reguards to the recent implimentation of BSL. Not towards anyone on the board.

And for whoever said Pit/Boxer mix dogs are awesome, I agree.
This is Rayne, she's at home with my parents but I miss her.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...neSlouch-1.jpg
Her and Spice, Spice is TOP DOG and is not above trying to take a chunk out of Raynie until my big girl holds her down with a paw.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...CF1108edit.jpg
Being abused with ace bandages, what happens when mom is bored.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSCF1101.jpg
Wanting to play
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ynePlaying.jpg
Looking lady like
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...21284522lg.jpg

I really don't understand why people have to go on and on and on debating the 'genetic' reasons behind the pits aggressive nature. I have been attacked by two dogs and almost attacked by another. Thier breeds, in order of the most harm done, Rottwieler (abused past), rat terrier (family pet), and german shepard (family pet).

Yes, pitbulls are more likely to cause more harm but this is mostly due to thier strength and will. Therefore, people who are not commited to giving them the attention, correction, and training they need as young puppies and throughout thier lives, should not own one. If we are going to use snake/dog comparisons, then here you go. It is not wise for someone who has no knowledge of a snake's needs to care for a snake. If they aggitate the snake, provide unsuitable living conditions, stick their hand in the cage after handling a mouse, ect, chances are, they are going to get bit. Same goes for ANY dog. If you don't provide proper training for a pit, don't socialize it properly, ect, chances are, you are going to have a 'bad' pit on your hands.

And as for all of those pit attacks you hear so much about. Pits get more press because of thier history in the fighting rings and because they simply look mean. If you tell someone, "Oh my poodle bit me.", not many people are going to want to listen because in our mindset, a poodle is thought of as a prissy lapdog. If thugs were using poodles in fighting rings, that news reporter would be more likely to listen to you. Pits just look mean because of thier square heads and large build. And unless I know the circumstances behind every single one of those attacks, I really can't consider them usefull. How do you know if those attacks were due to owner neglect (not fencing properly or not training thier dog properly) or abuse (fighting dog gets loose.)? I am more terrified of a small little Rat terrier then I am of pits.

Oh and that rottie that bit me. He bit me because he was abused as a puppy. He had been sleeping on the couch and the lights were out, making the room dark. I could tell that he was dreaming, and since I normally told him goodbye before going off to school each morning, I thought it would be ok to pet him. I reached down and touched his stomach. It scared the bejeezes out of him and his first instict was to bite since he could not see me well and thought I was a threat. After the bite, which was not very serious( It was only 1/2 inch deep and took 3 stiches total ), Broc tried to come into the kitchen where I was sitting waiting for the ambulence (my mom was scared he had gotten an artery or vein) with big puppy eyes. The look on his face clearly said "I'm so sorry." He whined and whimpered and tried to come to me. We had had him for 6 years and all he had ever done was lick us to death or sit on us in play. He knew what he had done and he knew it was wrong. I cried and cried for hours after getting to the hospital. And I can truely say it was not because of pain or fear. I cried because my mom said Broc had to be put down. I cried and cried and pleaded with her not to put him down. Thankfully, we found Broc a home with a woman that specializes in animal behavior and she could properly deal with Broc's abusive past. (Oh and not to mention, this dog had not been neutered, due to my mom and stepfather not really caring to do so. He was neutered immediatly after the 'attack'.) Broc now lives a happy life with this woman and has never bitten another person.

This attack has not altered my view of rotties at all. I know that Broc was a select case because he was abused and I had frightened him. Any person's natural instict is to protect yourself. One morning, I had been having a nightmare and when my grandmother woke me up I didn't know it was her, and swung. She had a bruise near her eye for days. Was a vicious killer, no. I had been frightened.

To this day, I wish I could have another rottie. They are such lovable teddybears. I've already told my fiance that I want big dogs when we have a house. My fiance wants a doberman and I want an australian cattle dog and possibly another large dog. No little dogs for me.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

That's all I've neen saying. The same can be said about any mammal that is predisposed to be aggressive or dangerous. People work with Lions, tigers and bears (oh my) all the time and say what amazing animals a well trained animal can be. But they, like pit bulls need extra special care and discipline, and even that doesn't guaranty that their natural instincts will never show. Ask Sigfried and Roy. I personally want a wolf/husky hybrid and maybe even a bobcat/bengal/house cat hybrid when I have a house in a rural area with a huge fenced in yard and a large outdoor cat enclosure. I will probably have a pit bull or two as well. I will give them a ton of attention, training and discipline to reduce their needs to rely on their aggressive instincts. I will assure people that mine are friendly and safe when or if they are. Does this mean that these are to be considered safe and friendly in general? If they never become fully tame or docile enough for me not to trust them around other people, does that mean I abuse or neglect them, or that I teach them to be mean? No, it means they are genetically predisposed to be aggressive hunters. Even if a million people owned these as pets, and all of them did a good job at training them, that doesn't change what they are. Just like the pitbull owners who do a good job raising theirs to be cuddly pets doesn't change the genetically instilled disposition of this aggressive, dominating breed of dog. And whether the statistics are acurate or not, I'm suprised that there are people on this site who deny this aggressive predisposition, when they know what pits were, and are, bred for, as well as the outcome of line breeding for specific traits in animals and humans.

P.S. I don't want to hear how my analogy isn't relavant. I think my retic one was better, but since snakes "aren't sophisticated mammals", this is the best I can do.

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They are just dogs, dude... underneath all that muscle and power, they're just dogs! They're not born killers, they're accomplished killers when made to be either through abuse or neglect...