Is it just me or have the prices of het albinos really plummeted?

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Originally Posted by truch

Huh? So hypothetically if you had a choice between two Albinos, both "High-Contrast" and coming from "Big Breeders", one was $1000 and the other $2000 you would pay that extra $1000 just to achieve your wonderful goal?

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believe it or not, i do and have payed more for the snake i wanted. customer service and trust are worth alot in the long run. peace of mind, and getting the snake i want is worth it to me.


vaughn

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

Where is the mystique in something when it is cheap and available to anyone? Take normals.. you can buy them for 40 bucks at most any pet store out there.. imagine if Pieds or Leucys were in fact available to anyone with 40 bucks.. everyone would have one, and you would be singing to the choir by showing yours to others.. woo hoo.

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Isn't the value in morphs more in the fact that they are beautiful in their own right and not the "mystique" or prestige associated with their monetary value?

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

Yes.

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Well, its good to know you've achieved the moral high ground.

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Originally Posted by truch

Isn't the value in morphs more in the fact that they are beautiful in their own right and not the "mystique" or prestige associated with their monetary value?

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bingo. i like the way you think.

Quality is what sells and quality is what I buy...Simple as that...

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Originally Posted by truch

Well, its good to know you've achieved the moral high ground.

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It certainly is nice up here. you should join us :gj:

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Originally Posted by rocky

Quality is what sells and quality is what I buy...Simple as that...

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exactly i dont care if i buy a snake form someone whith only two snakes in is spare bed room. if they produce great product. and great coustomer service. and fare price
:rockon:

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

It certainly is nice up here. you should join us :gj:

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LMFAO!!!

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

bingo. i cant wait for some of the relly high end stuff to drop to an affordiable price for every one

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So are you now supporting MKR's goal, then? You want to make everything affordable for everyone, what would be the fun of that? I for one am 14, I LOVE the fact that I have to earn my way up to an albino, or a spider, I don't want someone making the prices low and putting them, basicly, in the palm of my hand, if the world turned out like that, we would all be so lazy.In fact, in a nasty PM you sent me awhile back you said you were pissed of that I said that MKR had a nice looking snake up for sale, on a diffrent forum, and you threatend to tell everyone that I did so. Which is it? I am curious.

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

Makes for wonderful goals. If you can set challenging goals and exercise the discipline to achieve them, then you will become successful among many.

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YES YES YES!

Thank you Nathan!!

1,000,000,000 BP.net points!:P

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Originally Posted by stangs13

So are you now supporting MKR's goal, then? You want to make everything affordable for everyone, what would be the fun of that? I for one am 14, I LOVE the fact that I have to earn my way up to an albino, or a spider, I don't want someone making the prices low and putting them, basicly, in the palm of my hand, if the world turned out like that, we would all be so lazy.In fact, in a nasty PM you sent me awhile back you said you were pissed of that I said that MKR had a nice looking snake up for sale, on a diffrent forum, and you threatend to tell everyone that I did so. Which is it? I am curious.

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please post that pm. as i rember sending it to you because you are wishy washy. one day you wanted to get a mkr tatoo on your face then the next you said they were the devil. so as i said please post that pm.

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

It certainly is nice up here. you should join us :gj:

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Cute.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

please post that pm. as i rember sending it to you because you are wishy washy. one day you wanted to get a mkr tatoo on your face then the next you said they were the devil. so as i said please post that pm.

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LMAO! mATT... Your calling out a 14 year old!!

I am waiting for someone to start a BP morph registry, the way that people have the AKC for show dogs.. and the various horse breed associations.. we could have shows, contests, futurities; once the morphs become more widespread and more people have them, this would be a fun way to keep the hobby interesting.. even photo showing might be cool if people (understandably so) did not want to travel cross-country with their sensitive snakes..

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Originally Posted by truch

Isn't the value in morphs more in the fact that they are beautiful in their own right and not the "mystique" or prestige associated with their monetary value?

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I agree; but I also believe that some of that value comes from the understanding that breeding that animal in the future will bring back a return on the original investment made in buying that animal. For example, if someone offered me a Pied at $4500, that was healthy and could be bred, that is fair.. but if someone tried to sell me a snake that could not breed (for whatever reason) for that amount, I would not think it was fair.

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

please post that pm. as i rember sending it to you because you are wishy washy. one day you wanted to get a mkr tatoo on your face then the next you said they were the devil. so as i said please post that pm.

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Come on Matt...Keep it on the adult level. :eek:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I agree; but I also believe that some of that value comes from the understanding that breeding that animal in the future will bring back a return on the original investment made in buying that animal. For example, if someone offered me a Pied at $4500, that was healthy and could be bred, that is fair.. but if someone tried to sell me a snake that could not breed (for whatever reason) for that amount, I would not think it was fair.

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But how would you know the snake could breed before buying it? The 4500 Pied may not breed either...

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

I never claimed to be a big breeder and have no intention of becoming a big breeder by your standards.

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Didn't you just buy 50 females? Isn't that a step towards becoming a "big" breeder? 50 snakes at a time is not a hobbyist anymore IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I am waiting for someone to start a BP morph registry, the way that people have the AKC for show dogs.. and the various horse breed associations.. we could have shows, contests, futurities; once the morphs become more widespread and more people have them, this would be a fun way to keep the hobby interesting.. even photo showing might be cool if people (understandably so) did not want to travel cross-country with their sensitive snakes..

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As of now, there is no need to create a pedigree program or registry for BPs because the high variability and easily reproducible nature of BPs mutations is taking the place of true selective breeding.

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Originally Posted by monk90222

Didn't you just buy 50 females? Isn't that a step towards becoming a "big" breeder? 50 snakes at a time is not a hobbyist anymore IMHO.

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:rockon: :carrot:

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

please post that pm. as i rember sending it to you because you are wishy washy. one day you wanted to get a mkr tatoo on your face then the next you said they were the devil. so as i said please post that pm.

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I actualy deleted the PM, as it was from last year, wasn't to important untill now. Since when did I say I wanted an MKR tattoo on my face? I don't even want a tattoo! Is this a figure of speech?

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I am waiting for someone to start a BP morph registry, the way that people have the AKC for show dogs.. and the various horse breed associations.. we could have shows, contests, futurities; once the morphs become more widespread and more people have them, this would be a fun way to keep the hobby interesting.. even photo showing might be cool if people (understandably so) did not want to travel cross-country with their sensitive snakes..

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Great Idea, there is a Cornsnake registry. I iwll talk to the owners to see how its done.:D

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Originally Posted by stangs13

I actualy deleted the PM, as it was from last year, wasn't to important untill now. Since when did I say I wanted an MKR tattoo on my face? I don't even want a tattoo! Is this a figure of speech?

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Dont let it worry you Justin.. Matt wants Eds name tatooed somewhere on his body, Just cant say where at the moment! :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by DJ_86

Dont let it worry you Justin.. Matt wants Eds name tatooed somewhere on his body, Just cant say where at the moment! :rolleye2:

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Doesnt bother me at all!Thanks though!

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Since when did I say I wanted an MKR tattoo on my face? I don't even want a tattoo!

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you got me there. you never said you wanted a tatoo. but you did slap a nice saying on your signature for a whial. something like mkr 4 life or i love mkr. you actually pmed me asking me if i would change my signature too. and i said no i would not.

and is it wrong to call out a 14 year old when they accuse me of something publicly. i know most here would of done the same. i guess at least this way the truth is herd.


and as far as ed is concerned. he is a stand up guy from what i have herd. all i can say about him is what i have seen . and so far that is he has sold a lot of good looking animals. and only had one complaint out of hundreds of sales. i dont know him personally but his 99% positive rep is good enaugh for me. last time i checked that is still a A. :salute:

herd= That's a large herd of cattle.
heard= I heard what you said.


As far as hets...I'll always be prone to go with reputable breeders, hets are only as good as the breeders word and honesty. I'll pay more greenbacks as long as I have the peace of mind that my hets are going to actually prove out. I don't need a TSElike headache.

I thought this was a discussion about het albinos???

They have been around longer than 95% of the other morphs out there. If you want to judge how any other recessive morph price will change in the future, I would look towards albinos. Albino prices lowering are not really a big issue in my book since I am willing to bet money that out of all recessive traits more albinos are owned and being breed in this country than any other recessive trait. It would be like asking why are pastel prices so low. Pastels are probably the most commonly owned codom morph out there.....I have even started seeing them in pet stores.

When the 'market' discussion are brought up, I always find myself asking tons of questions. If you think of things on a large scale instead of 'just one morph', it is pretty amazing what you can observe.

What are het. albino pairs going for these days? $500/pair?

Do you know that albinos and pieds were proven recessive around the same time? Where are het. pied prices compared to albinos? What does the difference in price mean? Are more people breeding albinos than pieds? Is the demand for pieds higher than albinos? Is the current price of these morphs reflective of the 'original' price paid when the morph first hit the scene? Do all recessive morphs follow the same trend in pricing?

Thats just a few that popped into my head just now. Great topic for discussion. Everyone always seems concerned over 'who' this and 'who' that......who cares which person is selling at which prices?......I just want to know the 'why' behind everything.

Why are these snakes drastically reducing in value? Are there so many breeders out there that they can not sell at higher prices? is everyone looking for the 'quick sell'? why is there all this talk of 'behind closed doors' in the reptile industry? do people understand that by lowering prices on animals that they must increase production to keep the same profit margin? do those people understand what it takes to run a large scale breeding faculity? What impact is this having on the animals in terms of health and genetics? What actions are these keepers taking to preserve their right to own snakes since so many goverment agencies seem to be against it these days?

So many questions.

Personally.....the only issue that lower prices really worries me is......Lack of value equals disposable animals....that is the sad truth. Look at what happens to the normal ball pythons that can be picked up for $5 each in bulk lots...or savanah monitors going for $25 in the nearest pet store. Do most pet stores really care about the animals that they spent $10 on? Will their care change once they are selling pastel ball pythons for $100 each? I seen a pet store selling pastel ball pythons kept in small critter keepers crammed in one large enclosure....right next to corn snakes and kingsnakes. They had price tags of $400 each but were not even given enough room to move.

Some people like to complain that prices being 'too high' keeps others from owning these great snakes. I think that is great. If you have to work hard to get something.....most likely you will take care of it.

It is so sad how lower prices lead to animals being disposable...but that is the truth....and do you know who is responsible for all that?....the reptile community as a whole. Instead of turning out those who are responsible for pushing the ideals that these animals are only of monetary importance, some continue to support them. I hear 'I got this great deal' just as often as I hear "I got this great snake' alot these days.....oh well....I guess that is just the way things go.

....sorry for my rambling.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

I thought this was a discussion about het albinos???

They have been around longer than 95% of the other morphs out there. If you want to judge how any other recessive morph price will change in the future, I would look towards albinos. Albino prices lowering are not really a big issue in my book since I am willing to bet money that out of all recessive traits more albinos are owned and being breed in this country than any other recessive trait. It would be like asking why are pastel prices so low. Pastels are probably the most commonly owned codom morph out there.....I have even started seeing them in pet stores.

When the 'market' discussion are brought up, I always find myself asking tons of questions. If you think of things on a large scale instead of 'just one morph', it is pretty amazing what you can observe.

What are het. albino pairs going for these days? $500/pair?

Do you know that albinos and pieds were proven recessive around the same time? Where are het. pied prices compared to albinos? What does the difference in price mean? Are more people breeding albinos than pieds? Is the demand for pieds higher than albinos? Is the current price of these morphs reflective of the 'original' price paid when the morph first hit the scene? Do all recessive morphs follow the same trend in pricing?

Thats just a few that popped into my head just now. Great topic for discussion. Everyone always seems concerned over 'who' this and 'who' that......who cares which person is selling at which prices?......I just want to know the 'why' behind everything.

Why are these snakes drastically reducing in value? Are there so many breeders out there that they can not sell at higher prices? is everyone looking for the 'quick sell'? why is there all this talk of 'behind closed doors' in the reptile industry? do people understand that by lowering prices on animals that they must increase production to keep the same profit margin? do those people understand what it takes to run a large scale breeding faculity? What impact is this having on the animals in terms of health and genetics? What actions are these keepers taking to preserve their right to own snakes since so many goverment agencies seem to be against it these days?

So many questions.

Personally.....the only issue that lower prices really worries me is......Lack of value equals disposable animals....that is the sad truth. Look at what happens to the normal ball pythons that can be picked up for $5 each in bulk lots...or savanah monitors going for $25 in the nearest pet store. Do most pet stores really care about the animals that they spent $10 on? Will their care change once they are selling pastel ball pythons for $100 each? I seen a pet store selling pastel ball pythons kept in small critter keepers crammed in one large enclosure....right next to corn snakes and kingsnakes. They had price tags of $400 each but were not even given enough room to move.

Some people like to complain that prices being 'too high' keeps others from owning these great snakes. I think that is great. If you have to work hard to get something.....most likely you will take care of it.

It is so sad how lower prices lead to animals being disposable...but that is the truth....and do you know who is responsible for all that?....the reptile community as a whole. Instead of turning out those who are responsible for pushing the ideals that these animals are only of monetary importance, some continue to support them. I hear 'I got this great deal' just as often as I hear "I got this great snake' alot these days.....oh well....I guess that is just the way things go.

....sorry for my rambling.

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great post..... hopefully thought provoking for ppl.

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to daniel1983 again.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

I thought this was a discussion about het albinos???

They have been around longer than 95% of the other morphs out there. If you want to judge how any other recessive morph price will change in the future, I would look towards albinos. Albino prices lowering are not really a big issue in my book since I am willing to bet money that out of all recessive traits more albinos are owned and being breed in this country than any other recessive trait. It would be like asking why are pastel prices so low. Pastels are probably the most commonly owned codom morph out there.....I have even started seeing them in pet stores.

When the 'market' discussion are brought up, I always find myself asking tons of questions. If you think of things on a large scale instead of 'just one morph', it is pretty amazing what you can observe.

What are het. albino pairs going for these days? $500/pair?

Do you know that albinos and pieds were proven recessive around the same time? Where are het. pied prices compared to albinos? What does the difference in price mean? Are more people breeding albinos than pieds? Is the demand for pieds higher than albinos? Is the current price of these morphs reflective of the 'original' price paid when the morph first hit the scene? Do all recessive morphs follow the same trend in pricing?

Thats just a few that popped into my head just now. Great topic for discussion. Everyone always seems concerned over 'who' this and 'who' that......who cares which person is selling at which prices?......I just want to know the 'why' behind everything.

Why are these snakes drastically reducing in value? Are there so many breeders out there that they can not sell at higher prices? is everyone looking for the 'quick sell'? why is there all this talk of 'behind closed doors' in the reptile industry? do people understand that by lowering prices on animals that they must increase production to keep the same profit margin? do those people understand what it takes to run a large scale breeding faculity? What impact is this having on the animals in terms of health and genetics? What actions are these keepers taking to preserve their right to own snakes since so many goverment agencies seem to be against it these days?

So many questions.

Personally.....the only issue that lower prices really worries me is......Lack of value equals disposable animals....that is the sad truth. Look at what happens to the normal ball pythons that can be picked up for $5 each in bulk lots...or savanah monitors going for $25 in the nearest pet store. Do most pet stores really care about the animals that they spent $10 on? Will their care change once they are selling pastel ball pythons for $100 each? I seen a pet store selling pastel ball pythons kept in small critter keepers crammed in one large enclosure....right next to corn snakes and kingsnakes. They had price tags of $400 each but were not even given enough room to move.

Some people like to complain that prices being 'too high' keeps others from owning these great snakes. I think that is great. If you have to work hard to get something.....most likely you will take care of it.

It is so sad how lower prices lead to animals being disposable...but that is the truth....and do you know who is responsible for all that?....the reptile community as a whole. Instead of turning out those who are responsible for pushing the ideals that these animals are only of monetary importance, some continue to support them. I hear 'I got this great deal' just as often as I hear "I got this great snake' alot these days.....oh well....I guess that is just the way things go.

....sorry for my rambling.

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Originally Posted by truch

Isn't the value in morphs more in the fact that they are beautiful in their own right and not the "mystique" or prestige associated with their monetary value?

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THIS is what it's all about :rockon:

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Originally Posted by MATT FISHER REPTILES

you got me there. you never said you wanted a tatoo. but you did slap a nice saying on your signature for a whial. something like mkr 4 life or i love mkr. you actually pmed me asking me if i would change my signature too. and i said no i would not.

and is it wrong to call out a 14 year old when they accuse me of something publicly. i know most here would of done the same. i guess at least this way the truth is herd.


and as far as ed is concerned. he is a stand up guy from what i have herd. all i can say about him is what i have seen . and so far that is he has sold a lot of good looking animals. and only had one complaint out of hundreds of sales. i dont know him personally but his 99% positive rep is good enaugh for me. last time i checked that is still a A. :salute:

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You have the wrong 14 year old. That is TOTAL BS. ballpython kid...or something like that had that signature!! I never did. I never will. Get your facts straight.

Actualy his forum handle is bpkid.

Daniel darn good post man.:sweeet: :clap: :worship:

I bought my pair of hets in Dec for 350 shipped.

This makes me wonder: an albino male would cost 1200-odd dollars generally. A female, about 1300 (I have been researching; these are general prices I found.) So how could hets be much more than a couple hundred a pair? If they were more, one would be better off just getting an albino and a het.. now look at het pieds. Females are over 1k.. but the pied female itself would be 4000-odd dollars, so you can see why.
Just my findings on it all..

The whole truth of the matter is, I paid alot more for my het albino pair, and I had to work very hard to save for them. It aggravates me to see prices so low on these pairs!!!! I know I got QUALITY, so I know the price was a fair price. But I only got my pair in October, and it seems like everybody's lowballin already.