cinnamon pastel vs. black pastel

Also from what I read was the type/quality of pastel has alot to do with the look. I don't have experience myself but I do alot of research into all the designer morphs I am working on. I assume the black or cinny used will affect the look as well.

By the way Albey great pics and thanks for the info. I am always eager to learn from those who know more and appreciate those who are willing to share their experience.

Albey, I agree theres alot of confusion with these 2 morphs and alittle time and breeding results will clear things up, I hope! HAHAHA :P

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Originally Posted by Albey

Ed,
Actually that is not true. The Cinnamons produce Silver Streaks also. There was some confusion a few years ago because Mark Mandic claimed to produce what he thought was a Super Pastel/Cinnamon that looked completely different from a Super Pastel/Black Pastel but he was proven wrong. Later that year both he and Greg Graziani produced a real one. :sunny:

Here is a picture of four of them. From top left corner going counter clockwise you have the Pastel Jungle, The Cinnamon, The Pewter, and then in the top right hand corner the Silver Streak. I produced the first three and Greg Graziani produced the Silver Streak. I added that picture to mine.

http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images...br06_4past.jpg

Albey :)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Albey

Ed,
Actually that is not true. The Cinnamons produce Silver Streaks also. There was some confusion a few years ago because Mark Mandic claimed to produce what he thought was a Super Pastel/Cinnamon that looked completely different from a Super Pastel/Black Pastel but he was proven wrong. Later that year both he and Greg Graziani produced a real one. :sunny:

Here is a picture of four of them. From top left corner going counter clockwise you have the Pastel Jungle, The Cinnamon, The Pewter, and then in the top right hand corner the Silver Streak. I produced the first three and Greg Graziani produced the Silver Streak. I added that picture to mine.

http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images...br06_4past.jpg

Albey :)

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Are you saying that the Silver Streak was produced and photographed by Greg Graziani and that you cut and pasted it into a picture of your own animals? :confuzd:

If im not mistaken, the cinnamon breeding produces Silver Bullets! :)

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Originally Posted by Albey

Ed,
Actually that is not true. The Cinnamons produce Silver Streaks also. There was some confusion a few years ago because Mark Mandic claimed to produce what he thought was a Super Pastel/Cinnamon that looked completely different from a Super Pastel/Black Pastel but he was proven wrong. Later that year both he and Greg Graziani produced a real one. :sunny:

Here is a picture of four of them. From top left corner going counter clockwise you have the Pastel Jungle, The Cinnamon, The Pewter, and then in the top right hand corner the Silver Streak. I produced the first three and Greg Graziani produced the Silver Streak. I added that picture to mine.

http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images...br06_4past.jpg

Albey :)

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Are you saying that the Silver Streak was produced and photographed by Greg Graziani and that you cut and pasted it into a picture of your own animals? :confuzd:

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That is what he said, Nice catch.... Albey and Greg are pretty close friends, Dont get wound up.. Awesome animals Albey!!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

That is what he said, Nice catch.... Albey and Greg are pretty close friends, Dont get wound up.. Awesome animals Albey!!

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Why don't you let Albey answer the question.

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Originally Posted by iceman25

Why don't you let Albey answer the question.You ass!

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Is that anyway to treat a member of this forum? What a Mod you are...

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Is that anyway to treat a member of this forum? What a Mod you are...

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Keep pushing the envelope buddy..keep on pushing it.. :)

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Originally Posted by iceman25

Keep pushing the envelope buddy..keep on pushing it.. :)

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Bite Me!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Bite Me!

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As for me calling u an Ass, well lets just say the database knows what was written and what was added by you... :sweeet: :gj:

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Originally Posted by iceman25

As for me calling u an Ass, well lets just say the database knows what was written and what was added by you... :sweeet: :gj:

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Cool!!

Back to the snakes, All the black PASTELS are awesome!! CINNY'S Rock too!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

That is what he said, Nice catch.... Albey and Greg are pretty close friends, Dont get wound up.. Awesome animals Albey!!

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Would it have really been that difficult to reply to me in a polite way? I'm not sure what I did to earn that type of response. :confuzd: A simple - Albey has his permission to use that photo would have sufficed.

Had I know that, I wouldn't have needed to ask now would I?

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Would it have really been that difficult to reply to me in a polite way? I'm not sure what I did to earn that type of response. :confuzd: A simple - Albey has his permission to use that photo would have sufficed.

Had I know that, I wouldn't have needed to ask now would I?

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Just My way of being nice!!

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Just My way of being nice!!

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I like ur style Jas, lol. But ur too stubborn when we ask you too keep it "Family Friendly."

Originally Posted by JASBALLS
That is what he said, Nice catch.... Albey and Greg are pretty close friends, Dont get wound up.. Awesome animals Albey!!


I dont see anything wrong here.. What was not nice?

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Originally Posted by JASBALLS
I dont see anything wrong here.. What was not nice?

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That was after I edited out the not so nice part!

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Are you saying that the Silver Streak was produced and photographed by Greg Graziani and that you cut and pasted it into a picture of your own animals? :confuzd:

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Hi Christie,
I guess the answer to that would be a yes. I consider Greg a good friend and a mentor to me. I am sure he just considers me a good customer. :) Of course I did have to use some incredible Photoshop skills to pull it off though. :gj:

I used that picture a year ago on a couple of different forums to show the different morphs that could be produced with a Cinnamon and a Pastel Jungle, but mostly to dispel the rumor that Cinnamons did not produce a great looking Super Pastel/Cinnamon (Silver Streak). I think the picture does a great job of that. I have always made it perfectly clear that I did not produce it. To make it even clearer, tonight I added some more text to the picture and uploaded the new one to my site. The picture has been updated in my post. I hope this helps.

Albey

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Originally Posted by Albey

Hi Christie,
I guess the answer to that would be a yes. I consider Greg a good friend and a mentor to me. I am sure he just considers me a good customer. :) Of course I did have to use some incredible Photoshop skills to pull it off though. :gj:

I used that picture a year ago on a couple of different forums to show the different morphs that could be produced with a Cinnamon and a Pastel Jungle, but mostly to dispel the rumor that Cinnamons did not produce a great looking Super Pastel/Cinnamon (Silver Streak). I think the picture does a great job of that. I have always made it perfectly clear that I did not produce it. To make it even clearer, tonight I added some more text to the picture and uploaded the new one to my site. The picture has been updated in my post. I hope this helps.

Albey

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That's perfect. :colbert2:

I think the picture is very well done, and the comparison is stunning. My only concern was that the picture was used without permission. I'm glad that this is not the case. Thank you for sharing. :D

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

That is what he said, Nice catch.... Albey and Greg are pretty close friends, Dont get wound up.. Awesome animals Albey!!

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Hey Jas,
Thank you man.

Later Bro,
Albey

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Adam I admit that the genetics are very close, kinda like cousins.

:)

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Still, they're cousins,
Identical cousins and you'll find,
They laugh alike, they walk alike,
At times they even talk alike --
You can lose your mind,
When cousins are two of a kind.

:carrot: :taz: :rolleye2:

Albey

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

It's called lineage ;). The Black and Cinnamon are the same genes, at the same loci. If they weren't, Black x Cinnamon crossings wouldn't produce anything.

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

That should read wouldn't produce supers or homozygous black/cinnamons.

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Good Call.

If black and cinnamon weren't versions (or alleles) of the same gene, when you crossed the two you'd get all Normals. But you don't-->you get supers as you pointed out. The mutations fail to complement (i.e. produce normals) so it's the same gene that controls the two forms.

Lineage could mean several different things at the molecular level....maybe black pastels are just slightly different mutation in the same gene as cinnamon. Maybe Cinnamons have a different overall genetic background than black pastels.

You can distinguish these two possibilities from one another by taking a super produced by a black x cinnamon cross and crossing it to a normal. If you get blacks and cinnamons (you'd expect ~50% of each type) then you can rule out background effects.

One of my keeper Black Pastels. :) http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...g?t=1169629375

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

You can distinguish these two possibilities from one another by taking a super produced by a black x cinnamon cross and crossing it to a normal. If you get blacks and cinnamons (you'd expect ~50% of each type) then you can rule out background effects.

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Well, if you produce a super from a black x cinny cross you have already proven them to be homozygous (since a black x cinny cross, if the genetics were different, couldn't produce homozygous, or "supers" anyway).

Although, it is plausible that a double heterozygous black/pastel would be all black (if the genes are different), and thus appear to be a homozygous cinny, I'm certain the "super" form of the black/cinny has been bred to a normal, resulting in 100% morphs. That dispels almost any possibility of two genes at work, since double heterozygous codoms would produce normals, blacks, cinnys and black/cinnies.

I think Adam put it the best (via Tracy)... a black pastel and cinny pastel are no different from each other than a lemon pastel and a jungle pastel are different from each other.

But back to the OP... Ed, hurry up and make some Silver Bullets so I have something to drool over.