Opinions...

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Originally Posted by High End Herps Inc

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As for the half off deal for financially disadvantaged folks, it is just what we say it is. I don't see what's so hard to understand about it and I certainly don't see where certain people have to conjur up some diabolical, ulterior plot on our part to; "trick people" or "dump our stock" or "ruin morph markets". I can't believe the level of insane, rampant paranoia on this site where everyone assumes everyone else is up to something evil and underhanded. Were not. We just want to give poorer folks a break. lol

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What's shocking to me is the fact that you don't have a strong grip on the reality of the situation. Its been said a bunch of times in this thread but ill try one more time for those in the cheap seats:

If a person can't afford to pay for a snake at full price, how are they going to afford to feed it, house it and take it to a vet when it gets sick?

I can only speak for myself, and I have no prior knowledge of your business nor do I know you personally - I assure you that the opinions expressed on this thread are merely a part of a discussion about the policy you instituted and in no way are a direct attack on you. I completely understand you intentions, and they are noble; however, we are just discussing whether or not its really a good idea. Is that such a bad thing?

I tried to respond to the 20 foot albino granite thread, where we received an equal amount of undue and somewhat misguided criticism but it is locked and I was unable to respond. I hope the moderators don't mind if I address that issue here briefly and perhaps this post can be moved to the end of the other, appropriate thread.

Where to begin. Once again so many people with so many opinions that are WAY off base. Statements that we "abuse" our animals. That our animals are "obese" and so many more. Apparently we are not well known in this smaller, ball python circle of herpers, but we care about our animals and love them all very much. We don't abuse them. We don't mistreat our breeders in any way, shape or form. We don't overfeed them. Though granted, I can see where that picture can lead a "non-burm" person to get the impression that we do. But we actually pay very close attention to proper dietary needs and we intentionally avoid obesity and overfeeding with a passion. We bring up our raiser stock/future breeders intentionally slow so as to specifically avoid obesity.

Here are the FACTS about that particular female in that highly controversial picture: (never thought I would say that, lol)

The picture was taken on the second day after she ate a 60 pound pig. This is the point in digestion where 1/3 of the meal is digested partially and the intestines are full and very distended. This is when the remainder of the meal "softens" and actually expands as it digests and is broken down. This is the point when the meal is at its largest and I thought some people might actually be interested in seeing what it is like when a giant takes a huge meal. I guessed wrong obviously.

That female is NOT obese. That pig was her first meal since Sep 01 when she was put into cooling. That's over three months since her last meal. Prior to that she was fed maybe one 10 pound rabbit each month as a maintenance diet. When I feed my babies large pigs the meals are spaced much much further apart or it is after egg laying or a long fast when the python is underweight. Mature pythons don't need as much food to maintain a good body weight as most inexperienced folks think they do. Their metabolisms slow down dramatically and they don't require as much as a snake half their weight that is still growing.

As to the cage size: Yes, she is in an 8x3 cage in the picture. Most breeders of large pythons use this exact size cage for their larger stock. But she does get moved between 8x4 cages too. She just happened to be in an 8x3 when she took the pig. But it's really no harm or foul though as pythons tend to move very little during digestion. Once her meal was digested down in 4 days she was 1/4 that girth and she fits very nicely into that cage. The immense meal distorts the overall perspective greatly.

I hope this helped to clear up some of the false assumptions about us and what we do and how we run our breeding facilities and overall operations. If anyone has any questions, please, feel free to email me and I'll gladly answer them. Or give me a call. I'm always up for herp chat.

David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc
http://www.HighEndHerps.com/
(318)335-3673

Well, one thing is for certain....this thread has done nothing to improve my view of High End Herps in the least. In fact, its deteriorated even more.

I could understand the not being able to house and feed the really big snakes, but I don't really know .... I don't know what all they entail, the price of what they need to eat & size of enclosures, etc.



just my opinion & I'm sure some, if not most, of you will disagree with me



but if y'all were talking balls .... then affording one & being able to feed & house it are 2 different things, I might not be able to afford hundreds-thousands of $$ for a snake I'd really like to have but I can sure feed & house it the way it needs .... food, housing, etc.




low income does not necessarily mean dirt poor

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Originally Posted by ReptiNut

I could understand the not being able to house and feed the really big snakes, but I don't really know .... I don't know what all they entail, the price of what they need to eat & size of enclosures, etc.



just my opinion & I'm sure some, if not most, of you will disagree with me



but if y'all were talking balls .... then affording one & being able to feed & house it are 2 different things, I might not be able to afford hundreds-thousands of $$ for a snake I'd really like to have but I can sure feed & house it the way it needs .... food, housing, etc.




low income does not necessarily mean dirt poor

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Actually I totally agree with you.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

If a person can't afford to pay for a snake at full price, how are they going to afford to feed it, house it and take it to a vet when it gets sick?

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How does being able to afford the price have anything to being able to afford to feed it, house it and taking it to the vet. Those are completely aside from the price..

What the hell does the cost of a snake have to do with the care of it? I could go to PetCo and buy a Normal BP for $50.00 PLUS Tank, Heat Pad, Newspaper as substrate, lamp, etc, etc, etc = $100.00 + small rat weekly say $1.50 = $6.00 a month + say vet visit for an RI or what other BS which you could go 10yrs without ever seeing a vet, but say $200!

That's $50.00 for the snake + 50.00 for the set up + $36.00 a year to feed + $200yr for vet. Total cost $100 snake & set up + $236 yrly expense!

Vs

$10,000 for X BP morph, PLUS Tank, Heat Pad, Newspaper as substrate, lamp, etc, etc, etc = $100.00 + small rat weekly say $1.50 = $6.00 a month + say vet visit for an RI or what other BS which you could go 10yrs without ever seeing a vet, but say $200!

That's $10,000 for the snake + 50.00 for the set up + $36.00 a year to feed + $200yr for vet visit. Total cost $10,050 for the snake & set up + $236 yrly expense!

What the hell difference does it make if I buy a $50.00 normal BP and care for it well for $236.00 a year Vs if some one gave me a Pied for $50.00 and I care for it well for $236.00 a year? Just because I can't afford or am willing to spend $10,000 for a snake doesn't mean I can't care or own it better than anyone else!!
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What i'm saying is...Caring for a $50.00 bp/burm is no differen't in price then a $10,000 morph

I have 4 ball pythons right now...(sold a couple to some friends that wanted to get started...)

I can care for my snakes just fine, all are healthy and eating very well. Temps and humidity are optimum and their tanks are always inspected and cleaned with a fresh supply of water every other day.

now what makes the cost of owning and caring for my snakes go up if I own a $8,000 clown BP

of course a burm will cost a little more than a Ball to care for but still...


$50 burm vs. $15,000 burm no difference in price of care between the two...

:8: right on.:rockon:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReptiNut

I could understand the not being able to house and feed the really big snakes, but I don't really know .... I don't know what all they entail, the price of what they need to eat & size of enclosures, etc.



just my opinion & I'm sure some, if not most, of you will disagree with me



but if y'all were talking balls .... then affording one & being able to feed & house it are 2 different things, I might not be able to afford hundreds-thousands of $$ for a snake I'd really like to have but I can sure feed & house it the way it needs .... food, housing, etc.




low income does not necessarily mean dirt poor

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It is not so much about the half price thing, most of us are debating about the price of housing and feeding. He is offering these snakes at half price to help those in financial need but if they are in financial need, why do they need a snake that will cost hundreds of dollars a year in food alone plus vet bills and finding a vet that will take care of a 15 foot snake AND the cost of an enclosure

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Originally Posted by High End Herps Inc

I have never run across a forum so prone to open criticism, incorrect assumption and yes, even rampant hostility. I don't usually repond to negative threads as I always strive to take the high road on such things but some of the things said here are just appalling to say the least. Certainly surprising. I have to question what the age of the status quo is here in this forum. Are most of you teenagers?

We are not some new reptile scammer on the block trying to lie, cheat and con our way to the top. We have been providing top of the line, high quality morphs for many years now and are well known in the larger snake morphs/species circles.

In addition to this we do screen each and every customer to ensure that they have enough experience with larger snake species to handle the responsibilities involved with raising large pythons. But quite frankly keeping and breeding large snakes isn't as hard to do as many of the more vocal folks here try to say it is that have probably never even had large snakes to begin with. I have noticed that the people that always say how hard it is have never even had one. And then to read such generalities as "All burmese will get 20 feet and eat 60 pound pigs" and "All burms get thrown into the Everglades" and "Burmese will squeeze you to death" is simply just absurd. It just isn't the way it is in real life. Very few burmese get that big. Very few snake owners dump their stock into rivers. Incredibly few feeding accidents occur that end up in a dead herper. Sure these things have happened in the past and even DO happen every decade or so, but not with any regularity with which to site it here as a generality or a constant.

As for the half off deal for financially disadvantaged folks, it is just what we say it is. I don't see what's so hard to understand about it and I certainly don't see where certain people have to conjur up some diabolical, ulterior plot on our part to; "trick people" or "dump our stock" or "ruin morph markets". I can't believe the level of insane, rampant paranoia on this site where everyone assumes everyone else is up to something evil and underhanded. Were not. We just want to give poorer folks a break. lol

Please try to keep these forums civil and positive and try to refrain from blatantly criticising everyone that does something that you don't understand right off. It really only can make one person look bad and it isn't the person you are bad mouthing.

David Beauchemin
High End Herps Inc
http://www.HighEndHerps.com/
(318)335-3673

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I see. :rolleyes: