Congratulations, New Jerseyians!

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Thats cool. Although even if your stats are right, that doesn't mean 90% disagree with the decision. :)

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This is an excellent point, Jamie!

And personally, I think those that can't have a rational discussion on ANY topic should be the ones edited or told to drop it. Those of us who can should not be punished for other's issues.

Mousch, your boy friend may have had a good plan? :eek:


Jamie, so sorry if I offended you or your people? :P

These are just my twisted opinions, not meant to piss anyone off. :)

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

I have seen so much divisiveness on other sites, dont want to see it here. I look at this site as my sanctuary and a friendly place. :)

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I agree 100%!

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Jamie, so sorry if I offended you or your people? :P

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The Jews? I am not sure why they would be offended... :D

It'll take a lot more to offend me though... :rockon:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

For the life of me, I can't see why any adult person, who chooses to spend their life with another consenting adult in a happy manner, is said to be wrong for it..

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I have always said the same thing. That is one of the thoughts I had when I came out at 17. And that was 30 yrs ago and I have been thru the mill but I don't regret a single moment. Not only am I a Lesbian but most of my relationships have been inter-racial. The old double whammy :)

As for the preacher marrying thing, I am a Methodist who attends church and we have gay preachers. The Methodist Church slogan is " Open Hearts Open Minds Open Doors".
I live down here in good old Virginia where until 1963 it was illegal for inter racial marriages. They said the same about them as they do about gay marriages including the whole against God/Bible thing. My how wrong they where.


ECLARK wrote:
"I look at this site as my sanctuary and a friendly place."

Me, too!


New Jersey has never been one of my favorite places but it just made the list.

I'd bet that anyone who is anti-gay, never has been down the road themselves, and as a result has no idea what it's like. It isn't a "condition" that you can change or cure; it just is. You might as well tell yourself you hate ice cream when it is your favorite food.. self-deceit is something no one should suffer though.
I am in a happy relationship with the man of my dreams who I plan on marrying. He happens to be male, but I have dated females before.. should I have felt they were meant to be my life partner, I would have ran with it, damn the consequences. It's a sad state of affairs when politicians (mostly old white straight religious men) deem the actions of two adult human beings as wrong; who are they to judge?
There; that was my religious/political rant; hate and frown at me at will. :) Regardless of everyone's opinions here, it's all about the snakes, so I hope we all don't go hatin'; life's too short. :carrot:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I'd bet that anyone who is anti-gay, never has been down the road themselves, and as a result has no idea what it's like. It isn't a "condition" that you can change or cure; it just is. You might as well tell yourself you hate ice cream when it is your favorite food.. self-deceit is something no one should suffer though.
I am in a happy relationship with the man of my dreams who I plan on marrying. He happens to be male, but I have dated females before.. should I have felt they were meant to be my life partner, I would have ran with it, damn the consequences. It's a sad state of affairs when politicians (mostly old white straight religious men) deem the actions of two adult human beings as wrong; who are they to judge?
There; that was my religious/political rant; hate and frown at me at will. :) Regardless of everyone's opinions here, it's all about the snakes, so I hope we all don't go hatin'; life's too short. :carrot:

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Very well said. I too am not as straight as an arrow, but I am glad that NJ made it legal. As some of you have said also I think everywhere it should be legal to marry the same sex. What is it hurting others?


-Andre

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

so I hope we all don't go hatin'; life's too short.:carrot:

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Werd! One of my best and dearest friends is Lesbian. I believe our capacity to let another human being live their life freely the way they see fit is the best gift that one can give our loved ones!

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I am in a happy relationship with the man of my dreams who I plan on marrying. He happens to be male,

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Dadgum site says I can't give you no more love :(
Oh well, I'm in the same boat. I happened to fall in love with a man, but it could have easily been a woman. Discrimination is wrong in ANY form, but I have given up on the world agreeing with me on that.

I have no problem with what others think of me, yet remember the estimate is 1 in 10. I would hate to see anyone turn their back on a family member or child of their own due to prejudices, No one has to agree but there is room on this planet for all of us. Doesn't mean you have to be their best friend, just let them live life like any other person on this earth. No need for hate. Hate requires the waste of too much time and energy. :) :sunny:

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

Discrimination is wrong in ANY form, but I have given up on the world agreeing with me on that.

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Bingo! :)

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Originally Posted by Blu Mongoose

Hate requires the waste of too much time and energy. :) :sunny:

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This is a principle that the Jewish faith has embraced since the begining of time. But, people have a real difficult time coming to grips with the philosophy. I am seriously guilty of hate mongering, one of my chief sins.

Blu, you go girl, don't give up on your dream of a world that is hate free.

This thread fills me with so much happy... :happycry: For the most part, I can feel the love! :love:

Such awesome news! Now if the rest of the country would just catch on! Karen and I are celebrating our 5th anniversary at the end of this month, and really look forward to someday having the right to get married and be able to live wherever we wish while still having that marriage recognized.

The religious arguement makes me insane, people of ALL religions get married all the time. If marriage is a religious institution only, why can athiests get married? And why do legal rights go along with marriage? People who really believe that marriage is a religious issue only should put their money where their mouth is and give up all the legal rights they're denying us.

Just a few of which being...

• The right to make decisions on a spouse's behalf in a medical emergency. Specifically, the states generally provide that spouses automatically assume this right in an emergency. If an individual is unmarried, the legal "next of kin" automatically assumes this right. This means, for example, that a gay man with a life partner of many years may be forced to accept the financial and medical decisions of a sibling or parent with whom he may have a distant or even hostile relationship.

• The right to take up to 12 weeks of leave from work to care for a seriously ill partner or parent of a partner. The Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 permits individuals to take such leave to care for ill spouses, children and parents but not a partner or a partner's parents.

• The right to petition for same-sex partners to immigrate.

• The right to assume parenting rights and responsibilities when children are brought into a family through birth, adoption, surrogacy or other means. For example, in most states, there is no law providing a noncustodial, nonbiological or nonadoptive parent's right to visit a child - or responsibility to provide financial support for that child - in the event of a breakup.

• The right to share equitably all jointly held property and debt in the event of a breakup, since there are no laws that cover the dissolution of domestic partnerships.

• Family-related Social security benefits, income and estate tax benefits, disability benefits, family-related military and veterans benefits and other important benefits.

• The right to inherit property from a partner in the absence of a will.

• The right to purchase continued health coverage for a domestic partner after the loss of a job.
  

This is why it's a civil rights issue, not a religious issue. It's wrong to deny anyone the right to enter into a contract (and marriage IS a sort of contract) based on gender. If the anti-gay marriage folks gave all those up, it'd be one thing. But until they do, all I see is excuses. Banning gay marriage within a specific Church or religion is fine with me. A person can choose to be associated with a Church or not and to obey that specific Church's laws. But the government is a whole nother can of beans.

Anyway, know I came into this thread late and all I just wanted to pipe up as it's an issue near and dear to my heart... Someday! :happycry:

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Originally Posted by MedusasOwl

This is why it's a civil rights issue, not a religious issue. It's wrong to deny anyone the right to enter into a contract (and marriage IS a sort of contract) based on gender. If the anti-gay marriage folks gave all those up, it'd be one thing. But until they do, all I see is excuses. Banning gay marriage within a specific Church or religion is fine with me. A person can choose to be associated with a Church or not and to obey that specific Church's laws. But the government is a whole nother can of beans.

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:salute:

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

:salute:

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:salute: X 2!

Till today, I never thought a simple smiley could make me cry. :salute: :happycry: You guys rock. Thank you. :happycry:

:)

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Originally Posted by MedusasOwl

Till today, I never thought a simple smiley could make me cry. :salute: :happycry: You guys rock. Thank you. :happycry:

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Congrats on your 5th Anniversary. :)

The wife and I celebrated our 15th this past April! :D

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Originally Posted by MedusasOwl

This thread fills me with so much happy... :happycry: For the most part, I can feel the love! :love:

Such awesome news! Now if the rest of the country would just catch on! Karen and I are celebrating our 5th anniversary at the end of this month, and really look forward to someday having the right to get married and be able to live wherever we wish while still having that marriage recognized.

it's an issue near and dear to my heart... Someday! :happycry:

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I feel it's coming. Kelly & I have been waiting over 8 yrs. I feel the time is just about right. :sunny:

P.S. Make sure you hit the voting polls!! :D :D
Oh, our anniversary is Oct. 31st. :D

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Originally Posted by MedusasOwl

Till today, I never thought a simple smiley could make me cry. :salute: :happycry: You guys rock. Thank you. :happycry:

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Happy anniversary, and I'm hoping this helps expediate the chance you can get married at home or wherever you'd like to :)

Shakes head ....

OMG, Nancy, that's the date of our anniversary too! :rockon:How cool! We didn't even plan it that way, it just so happened that everything fell into place on my favorite holiday. :D And we already voted, we always mail ours in early after a thorough reading of the propositions.

15 years, Sho, that's so awesome! That'll be us someday too. :D Thanks guys!

Sheree, this is exactly what I've been wanting to see - a clear listing of the civil/legal issues involved outside the emotional response a lot of society goes for over this issue - thanks hon!

You know I don't expect anyone to agree or support my daughter other than those that know and love her (though why another adult would think they have the right to agree or not agree with another adult's personal life is still beyond me LOL). Anyway.....again Akiva you have my deepest respect for your participation in this thread...Sheree thank you for clearly stating the legal issues involved....Nancy you've been in a loving relationship for 8 years, you have every right to be proud of that in this day of disposable relationships (hetrosexual divorce rates being what over 50% these days folks, so we really have no reason to believe we know it all about how to live in a committed relationship anymore than anyone else does).

Maybe some of you will think I'm not a good mother because I easily accept that my daughter is gay. Here's a few reasons....firstly because I'm her mother - I may be a lot of things to her but I'm still only a woman and a mom, not someone who decides her sexuality for her - I don't feel I have that right. This brings up the next thing, this is NOT all about sex anyways. Why that part is focused on for gay couples when it's not even something people automatically judge in a straight couple? So what if their body parts are this way or that way...they still pay their gas bill just like we straight folk do, they squabble like other couples, they take out the garbage, go to work, live, love, laugh and struggle along....just the rest of us. For heaven's sakes, why do people judge a gay couple's relationship based on what they do in their private lives....sorry but folks to me that's just plain rude and intrusive. Would you like someone to judge you do that way as being the biggest factor in the validity of your personal relationship? I know I sure wouldn't.

I watched my child struggle for a lot of years and I was unaware of why she was in so much pain. Then I watched this beautiful young woman I birthed find the inner strength to come out. To stop trying to fit a mold that she was never born to fit. To blossom and find love and companionship with a young woman I think of as daughter of my heart. I watched my daughter smile and learn what it is to be in love. I watched her finally able to focus on her life goals because she was being true to herself at last. Should I have reacted with horror that the person she fell in love with has a female body and not a male one? How awful would I have been as a mother and a woman to want my daughter to go back to being conflicted and sad just to satisfy what society says is "normal". I raised her to believe that men and women were equal....now I should say...."oh except as a life partner...then men are better"...sorry folks...I'm just not that two faced. I don't look at their relationship as being a gay one, it's just two young people building a relationship just like all of us, straight or gay, go through in our 20's...no better...no worse. Love is so very much more than our sexuality. Love and committment never works if that's all it is based on so why judge it so much on just that when it comes to same sex couples.

Sorry this post is so long but I hope if any of you have a child that comes to you...scared you will reject them....scared society will judge and hate them...please just remember this last part if nothing else. As a parent I am so very proud of my daughter...not because she is gay...not despite the fact that she is gay...because simply...she is Kate....not my "gay" daughter...just my Kate as she's been since the first time I held her at birth and that's more than enough for me. I pray that as a parent, it would be enough for any of you.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Maybe some of you will think I'm not a good mother because I easily accept that my daughter is gay.

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Joanna, I don't think you're a good mother - I think you're a WONDERFUL mother for recognizing your daughter as a whole person and fully accepting her. Your story made me really happy, having seen mothers who outright reject their children for such a trifling thing as whose parts they prefer to have their parts around.

my mother loves me and everything I do, and fully supports me living with my boyfriend, giving up university for awhile, and a lot of things "traditional" moms get upset about... my mom is an awesome lady just like you! In our society, your daughter must feel luckier to have you than I do to have my mom :)

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Originally Posted by ECLARK

Mousch, your boy friend may have had a good plan? :eek:


Jamie, so sorry if I offended you or your people? :P

These are just my twisted opinions, not meant to piss anyone off. :)

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I like your twisted points of view!!:carrot:

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Originally Posted by stangs13

I like your twisted points of view!!:carrot:

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Well, my bofriend sure doesn't anymore. So I'll keep holding out :)

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Originally Posted by mousch

Well, my bofriend sure doesn't anymore. So I'll keep holding out :)

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it was joke from along time ago. LOL! Between me and Ed. I wounder if he gets it.

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Originally Posted by stangs13

it was joke from along time ago. LOL! Between me and Ed. I wounder if he gets it.

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Justin,

Stop trying to stoke the flames in what is an already contentious topic.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Justin,

Stop trying to stoke the flames in what is an already contentious topic.

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Ok, I wasnt it was between me and Ed not anyone else.

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Ok, I wasnt it was between me and Ed not anyone else.

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It was 24 posts prior to when you referenced it.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

It was 24 posts prior to when you referenced it.

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Sorry. I missed that part of it.

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Originally Posted by mousch

Joanna, I don't think you're a good mother - I think you're a WONDERFUL mother for recognizing your daughter as a whole person and fully accepting her. Your story made me really happy, having seen mothers who outright reject their children for such a trifling thing as whose parts they prefer to have their parts around.

my mother loves me and everything I do, and fully supports me living with my boyfriend, giving up university for awhile, and a lot of things "traditional" moms get upset about... my mom is an awesome lady just like you! In our society, your daughter must feel luckier to have you than I do to have my mom :)

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Thanks sweetie but I don't really see it as anything more than any parent does or should do for their kids. Our "job" as I see it is to raise strong, responsible adults that build their own lives as they see fit, not extensions of what we want for them but what they want for themselves. :) That might be the partner they pick, the job or school they choose, whatever. For me, I've been an effective parent if they make those decisions wisely knowing I'll be there to cheer them on, laugh at how stupid life can be some days, pick em up and dust them off if they need that occasionally and give them a bit of hell when they need that too LOL. Mostly I'm hoping I stumble along and get all 4 of them to the point where they become my friends as much as they are my children.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Thanks sweetie but I don't really see it as anything more than any parent does or should do for their kids. Our "job" as I see it is to raise strong, responsible adults that build their own lives as they see fit, not extensions of what we want for them but what they want for themselves. :)

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And when you start with that goal, that's exactly what you end up with :cool:

franklykeno,

The greatest gift you could have ever given your daughter was accepting her and the people in her life. That right there makes you a top mom in my book.

When I came out my family accepted me and the people in my life and always up to this day has. When I made the decision to have a child my family was right there with me. It was the greatest thing they could have done for me.
I have seen so many gay people be cast off by family and friends. It is so very sad. Thats why I am a active donor in SMYAL. Young people go thru enough on a regular basis let alone when you come to grips that you are gay.

Your awesome!

Ack ack stop with the awesome stuff LOL. :oops: I really seriously do not see that in myself. I actually am more amazed I guess that it's anything special to just continue to love your kid like you always have.

So what if one day they come out to you. Does that mean that you can just somehow turn off love? That personally just astounds me so seriously I don't see that I'm anything special...I'm just being Kate's mom like I was the day before she told me, like the day I was after she told me. It's like this for me...my daughter has brown hair....my daughter is right handed...my daughter is gay....my daughter loves really strong cheddar cheese...my daughter has my goofy sense of humour and so on...just a fact of who she is...being gay is not some odd defining thing that should affect how I feel about her. Maybe that makes me naive or simple LOL but I seriously cannot figure out how someone rejects their kid that supposedly they loved so much one day, but not the next just because that child was honest.

Parents have disowned their kids for much less, so unfortunately... that does make you awesome. It's only unfortunate in the fact that in our present society you do deserve the congratulations, becuase so many people outright reject their children.

Yep all too true hon I guess. Sad to say but in our present society a lot of parents don't deserve the kids they were blessed with (but that's another whole thread in itself lol).