The wildest Ball Python story EVER!!!

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Originally Posted by DanRC30

Are you kidding me? I said it right from the beginning that she went into the white-lipped cage... lol!

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Well going by reading your comments i can see how someone could get confused or forget something.It also seems like you feel you do not need anyones advice as you keep declining to listen to it.Everyone is trying to tell you the TRUTH about why its not good to allow 2 snakes to live in the same enclosure for any period of time.The only exception to this is if they are breeding.I am not being rude here just posting the facts.I hope you come about and realize we are telling you the truth and seperate those snakes before something happens to them.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Well going by reading your comments i can see how someone could get confused or forget something.It also seems like you feel you do not need anyones advice as you keep declining to listen to it.Everyone is trying to tell you the TRUTH about why its not good to allow 2 snakes to live in the same enclosure for any period of time.The only exception to this is if they are breeding.I am not being rude here just posting the facts.I hope you come about and realize we are telling you the truth and seperate those snakes before something happens to them.

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I completely understand. I plan on seperating them, but I'm giving them a chance to breed if that's what her reason was to get into that cage...

I think the confusion is that you want them to breed, rather than live together.

Have you prepared them both for the breeding season? If not you might want to get them in the mode first, might be more successful.

As far as them cuddling together, this can be their way of showing dominance over the other snake, and cause stress... maybe they are fighting over the best spot.

As long as they are both clean/healthy/etc, and you are just doing this as an experiment, hopefully everything will turn out ok.

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

I think the confusion is that you want them to breed, rather than live together.

Have you prepared them both for the breeding season? If not you might want to get them in the mode first, might be more successful.

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Correct. If it doesn't look like anything is happening, I'm going to seperate them and begin cycling both of them. Then maybe I can put them back together to see what happens...

Why would you have the sliding tracks without locks anyway?

You said your white-lipped is smaller than your female ball python, correct?

If so, I doubt the white lipped is even big enough to reproduce.

Also...

When people generally try to produce hybrids, they breed a male of the smaller species to a female of the larger. This way you will reduce the risk of egg binding and complications.....for example, how would a female ball python handle laying a few retic size eggs?....

If you were to attempt this cross, you would be better to get a sexually mature male ball python and breed it to a sexually mature female white lipped python.....

Most people, in fact hopefully all people, that willingly choose to breed any living creature let alone produce hybrid young, do so with a solid knowledge of the species involved, any risks of such breedings, the pro's and con's, etc. Hopefully they do not do your "oh well what the hey, let's just see what happens" method of breeding. Good luck with that!

Here's some quotes against housing together:
Originally posted by “Dougie”

“Alright, so I was cleaning out the cages tonight for my two ball pythons and somehow got a crack in the aquarium. So, I decide it isn't a good idea to keep the snake in there because it is a pretty nasty crack and I didn't want the snake to get cut. Well, I decided that one night in the same enclosure wouldn't hurt until I could get to the store tomorrow. I was laying there in bed and I hear what sounds like a snake pouncing a rat/mouse, so I get up to check on all the snake and I see that the little ball python has a hold on, and is trying to constrict the bigger one! So I grab the two immediately and separate them, fortunately there is just minimal bleeding so far, we are going in for a vet check tomorrow just to make sure everying is fine. I know better than to keep them together, but I figured one freakin night wouldn't hurt. Well, I guess I know better, and to everyone on here, it is worth going to walmart for a tub and lid. I just got back from there and have everyone settled in. I feel like crap for letting this happen.” That's two BPs and from what I hear White-Lips can be quite unpredictable. Next one:

Originally posted by “CritterLover”

“I think the issue is SHOULD they be housed together and the clear answer there is NO!…Ya know why? They are just not social creatures. Housing them together puts them in a fundamentally abnormal situation and they get stressed. They have no instinct on how to be social and get stressed out from dominance issues.” One last one? Ok then:

Originally posted by “JLC”

“there may be some species that you can put together in a single terrarium, but BP's are NOT one of them.”

There you go. There's also a good example I found the other day. Ok, so say your BP is being housed alone, there's still a chance it'll be stressed right? Imagine that as a revolver with 10,000 chambers and 100 bullets in it, you spin the chamber and pull the trigger (kind of like an even more extreme version of russian roulette). If you house together, you are adding another 3,000 bullets into that gun. I don't know about you but I find that quite explanatory.

Ok, so many questions to answer and statements to respond to:

1) The white lip is longer than the BP, but thinner of course. I doubt either one would be willing or even could eat each other based on their sizes.


2) The WL is a male, and the BP is a female. Males will fight, and females usually won't. Not only that, since they are a different sex, there shouldn't be any fighting issues. I've had 2 female BP's in the same cage for months with NO problems.


3) I never needed locks on any sliding glass cages before. The question isn't why have sliding tracks without locks, it's why have locks if they are not necessary? Locks are a pain in the a$$ when not needed. Oddly in this case, they are needed.


4) "When people generally try to produce hybrids, they breed a male of the smaller species to a female of the larger. This way you will reduce the risk of egg binding and complications.....for example, how would a female ball python handle laying a few retic size eggs?...." WRONG! Some of the nicest carpondros came from female GTP's and male carpets!


5) "Most people, in fact hopefully all people, that willingly choose to breed any living creature let alone produce hybrid young, do so with a solid knowledge of the species involved, any risks of such breedings, the pro's and con's, etc. Hopefully they do not do your "oh well what the hey, let's just see what happens" method of breeding." Sometimes great things happen from situations like "let's see what happens". That's how DOW invented Plexi-glass....


6) Right now, there is no power struggle. The white lip has been mostly staying away from the BP, but they occasionally sleep together intertwined. If they are seperate tonight when I get home, the BP will be removed.


On another note, I had 2 boas in one cage. Anyone that says snakes are not social animals, have no idea what they are talking about. These boas really liked each other. They were always together... they both were very friendly, and ate well. They liked each other so much that when I traded the smaller one away, the larger one stopped eating. She became lethargic and eventually passed. I can't say for sure if the removal of the other one caused this, but something sure did! It was kind of coincidental that she went downhill the day I removed the other boa.


I also had a friend that had 2 very large male retics; 17' & 18'. The 17' snake actually liked people. The 18', not so much. He tolerated people. How do I know this? Well, when I went there one day, the large retic slowly came across the room from the corner it was sleeping in to see me and it gently crawled on top of me to be held. I was standing there and this snake put it's head on my shoulder and crawled around me to be held. Snakes aren't social? I don't think so... maybe some species of snakes aren't but others definitely are! I have no doubt of this. I'm assuming that 2 male BP's don't want to be put together, but that doesn't necessarily go for all snakes.

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Originally Posted by DanRC30

She definitely opened the other cage the first time... I must've caught her just before she went in. Nobody else opened that cage.

They are supposed to be escape proof. She was in a vision, and the WL is in a 4' cage by "custom cages". Those glass doors are even bigger and heavier than the visions!

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does your snake have thumbs?

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Originally Posted by DanRC30

Ok, so many questions to answer and statements to respond to:

1) The white lip is longer than the BP, but thinner of course. I doubt either one would be willing or even could eat each other based on their sizes.


2) The WL is a male, and the BP is a female. Males will fight, and females usually won't. Not only that, since they are a different sex, there shouldn't be any fighting issues. I've had 2 female BP's in the same cage for months with NO problems.


3) I never needed locks on any sliding glass cages before. The question isn't why have sliding tracks without locks, it's why have locks if they are not necessary? Locks are a pain in the a$$ when not needed. Oddly in this case, they are needed.


4) "When people generally try to produce hybrids, they breed a male of the smaller species to a female of the larger. This way you will reduce the risk of egg binding and complications.....for example, how would a female ball python handle laying a few retic size eggs?...." WRONG! Some of the nicest carpondros came from female GTP's and male carpets!


5) "Most people, in fact hopefully all people, that willingly choose to breed any living creature let alone produce hybrid young, do so with a solid knowledge of the species involved, any risks of such breedings, the pro's and con's, etc. Hopefully they do not do your "oh well what the hey, let's just see what happens" method of breeding." Sometimes great things happen from situations like "let's see what happens". That's how DOW invented Plexi-glass....


6) Right now, there is no power struggle. The white lip has been mostly staying away from the BP, but they occasionally sleep together intertwined. If they are seperate tonight when I get home, the BP will be removed.


On another note, I had 2 boas in one cage. Anyone that says snakes are not social animals, have no idea what they are talking about. These boas really liked each other. They were always together... they both were very friendly, and ate well. They liked each other so much that when I traded the smaller one away, the larger one stopped eating. She became lethargic and eventually passed. I can't say for sure if the removal of the other one caused this, but something sure did! It was kind of coincidental that she went downhill the day I removed the other boa.


I also had a friend that had 2 very large male retics; 17' & 18'. The 17' snake actually liked people. The 18', not so much. He tolerated people. How do I know this? Well, when I went there one day, the large retic slowly came across the room from the corner it was sleeping in to see me and it gently crawled on top of me to be held. I was standing there and this snake put it's head on my shoulder and crawled around me to be held. Snakes aren't social? I don't think so... maybe some species of snakes aren't but others definitely are! I have no doubt of this. I'm assuming that 2 male BP's don't want to be put together, but that doesn't necessarily go for all snakes.

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http://walshm.site.net.au/f1_hosting/stupid_thread.jpg

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Originally Posted by DanRC30

Ok, so many questions to answer and statements to respond to:

1) The white lip is longer than the BP, but thinner of course. I doubt either one would be willing or even could eat each other based on their sizes.


2) The WL is a male, and the BP is a female. Males will fight, and females usually won't. Not only that, since they are a different sex, there shouldn't be any fighting issues. I've had 2 female BP's in the same cage for months with NO problems.


3) I never needed locks on any sliding glass cages before. The question isn't why have sliding tracks without locks, it's why have locks if they are not necessary? Locks are a pain in the a$$ when not needed. Oddly in this case, they are needed.


4) "When people generally try to produce hybrids, they breed a male of the smaller species to a female of the larger. This way you will reduce the risk of egg binding and complications.....for example, how would a female ball python handle laying a few retic size eggs?...." WRONG! Some of the nicest carpondros came from female GTP's and male carpets!


5) "Most people, in fact hopefully all people, that willingly choose to breed any living creature let alone produce hybrid young, do so with a solid knowledge of the species involved, any risks of such breedings, the pro's and con's, etc. Hopefully they do not do your "oh well what the hey, let's just see what happens" method of breeding." Sometimes great things happen from situations like "let's see what happens". That's how DOW invented Plexi-glass....


6) Right now, there is no power struggle. The white lip has been mostly staying away from the BP, but they occasionally sleep together intertwined. If they are seperate tonight when I get home, the BP will be removed.


On another note, I had 2 boas in one cage. Anyone that says snakes are not social animals, have no idea what they are talking about. These boas really liked each other. They were always together... they both were very friendly, and ate well. They liked each other so much that when I traded the smaller one away, the larger one stopped eating. She became lethargic and eventually passed. I can't say for sure if the removal of the other one caused this, but something sure did! It was kind of coincidental that she went downhill the day I removed the other boa.


I also had a friend that had 2 very large male retics; 17' & 18'. The 17' snake actually liked people. The 18', not so much. He tolerated people. How do I know this? Well, when I went there one day, the large retic slowly came across the room from the corner it was sleeping in to see me and it gently crawled on top of me to be held. I was standing there and this snake put it's head on my shoulder and crawled around me to be held. Snakes aren't social? I don't think so... maybe some species of snakes aren't but others definitely are! I have no doubt of this. I'm assuming that 2 male BP's don't want to be put together, but that doesn't necessarily go for all snakes.

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Did you even look at that link that was posted? That BCI ate a BP that was as big as, if not a little larger. They WILL compete for space, aggressively if necessary. It isn't wise to ask for advice here and then completely reject everyones rationalisations of your situation.

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Originally Posted by DanRC30

Ok, so many questions to answer and statements to respond to:


On another note, I had 2 boas in one cage. Anyone that says snakes are not social animals, have no idea what they are talking about. These boas really liked each other. They were always together... they both were very friendly, and ate well. They liked each other so much that when I traded the smaller one away, the larger one stopped eating. She became lethargic and eventually passed. I can't say for sure if the removal of the other one caused this, but something sure did! It was kind of coincidental that she went downhill the day I removed the other boa.


I also had a friend that had 2 very large male retics; 17' & 18'. The 17' snake actually liked people. The 18', not so much. He tolerated people. How do I know this? Well, when I went there one day, the large retic slowly came across the room from the corner it was sleeping in to see me and it gently crawled on top of me to be held. I was standing there and this snake put it's head on my shoulder and crawled around me to be held. Snakes aren't social? I don't think so... maybe some species of snakes aren't but others definitely are! I have no doubt of this. I'm assuming that 2 male BP's don't want to be put together, but that doesn't necessarily go for all snakes.

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I don't want to be rude, but I think you have no idea what you are talking about. You are starting fights against people here who have tenfolds the experience you have - I am not one of them, but I have learnt enough from them to know that your rationale is completely off the wall.

One of those Boas probably gave the other one IBD. And that retic was probably sizing you up.

OMG is this DanRC30 guy for real?!?

This guy i know bought a pair of b.c.o's... actually they were from the same clutch as the pair i had.
Well the pair were over 7ft each the female closer to 8ft , any way he was cleaning them out one night and put them into together quickly while cleaning out there cages , he went off to clean out there water bowls and come back to see that the male was eating the female they were literally alone together for 10 minutes and the male had consticticted , killed and was swallowing her down way past her neck all in 10 minutes! , to say that he was gutted was a understatement , so why would you even risk this , i hope you are just winding us up on this as this is ridiculous

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Originally Posted by DanRC30

On another note, I had 2 boas in one cage. Anyone that says snakes are not social animals, have no idea what they are talking about. These boas really liked each other. They were always together... they both were very friendly, and ate well. They liked each other so much that when I traded the smaller one away, the larger one stopped eating. She became lethargic and eventually passed. I can't say for sure if the removal of the other one caused this, but something sure did! It was kind of coincidental that she went downhill the day I removed the other boa.

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Really!?!?!?

You know folks...some people are just going to believe what they believe and it doesn't matter what anyone else tries to say to them. It won't matter how many years of experience you have, or how deep your knowledge of reptiles and snakes go. Some people will take their limited experience and interpret it within their own framework and be completely unwilling to believe anything could be different.


It doesn't do any good to beat 'em up for that. And it doesn't do any good to keep beating your own head against a wall trying to get them to see things any differently. Doing so only prolongs the agony. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

http://walshm.site.net.au/f1_hosting/stupid_thread.jpg

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Jamie thanks for the laugh:8:

Can't agree more!!!!!

I'm just going to ignore him. He hasn't cared about what anyone else had to say and he sure as heck probably won't listen to me.

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Originally Posted by JLC

You know folks...some people are just going to believe what they believe and it doesn't matter what anyone else tries to say to them. It won't matter how many years of experience you have, or how deep your knowledge of reptiles and snakes go. Some people will take their limited experience and interpret it within their own framework and be completely unwilling to believe anything could be different.


It doesn't do any good to beat 'em up for that. And it doesn't do any good to keep beating your own head against a wall trying to get them to see things any differently. Doing so only prolongs the agony. :rolleyes:

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Judy,i do not think anyone else could have put this any better then you just did.Its really sad that the snakes are the ones who will suffer :( .

I just wanted to ask how hard is it to spell the full word LITTLE ?

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Originally Posted by bpkid

I'm just going to ignore him. He hasn't cared about what anyone else had to say and he sure as heck probably won't listen to me.

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You are so correct here.I thank the Admin for the use of the ignore option here :carrot: .

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

I just wanted to ask how hard is it to spell the full word LITTLE ?

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Now its not nice to point out someones mistakes.It does not reflect to well on our site as a whole.Some people misspell some words or are unable to say some words,we should just let it pass.

Wow man, I've never seen such hostility in my life!


Here's a little fact that you don't know... I was going to remove them immediately until a friend of mine, who has over 30 years of breeding experience, said to me to leave them together! So, as full of yourselves as you are, you all don't know EVERYTHING. Opinions vary... snakes vary. Just because one boa ate another, does not mean it's going to happen here. It doesn't mean that it won't either, but her instinct or decision was to go into that other cage. So, I let her get what she wanted for a few days. Tonight when I got home, they were at opposite ends of the cage. They will be separated tonight since it looks like nothing is happening.

I must say that so many of you seem very closed minded and a bit arrogant with your posts. I haven't attacked anyone here. I've been the only one being bashed because I have a different opinion. For some reason, you think you know everything and you assume I know nothing. It's kind of reminiscent of religious fanaticism. As Socrates said, "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing".

Try to keep an open mind...

PS- One more thing I forgot to mention... she chose to go into the White Lip python's cage... funny how I have a pair if sugargliders right next to her cage and she didn't go there either time. She couldn't ever get to them due to the the wire mesh, but she chose to go into another snake cage than go after the scent of the gliders... this shows me some major amounts of determination.

I posted this earlier, very interesting

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...6&page=2&pp=10

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Originally Posted by DanRC30

Wow man, I've never seen such hostility in my life!


Here's a little fact that you don't know... I was going to remove them immediately until a friend of mine, who has over 30 years of breeding experience, said to me to leave them together! So, as full of yourselves as you are, you all don't know EVERYTHING. Opinions vary... snakes vary. Just because one boa ate another, does not mean it's going to happen here. It doesn't mean that it won't either, but her instinct or decision was to go into that other cage. So, I let her get what she wanted for a few days. Tonight when I got home, they were at opposite ends of the cage. They will be separated tonight since it looks like nothing is happening.

I must say that so many of you seem very closed minded and a bit arrogant with your posts. I haven't attacked anyone here. I've been the only one being bashed because I have a different opinion. For some reason, you think you know everything and you assume I know nothing. It's kind of reminiscent of religious fanaticism. As Socrates said, "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing".

Try to keep an open mind...

PS- One more thing I forgot to mention... she chose to go into the White Lip python's cage... funny how I have a pair if sugargliders right next to her cage and she didn't go there either time. She couldn't ever get to them due to the the wire mesh, but she chose to go into another snake cage than go after the scent of the gliders... this shows me some major amounts of determination.

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Who is this breeder??????

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Originally Posted by DanRC30

Ok, here goes... most probably won't believe me, but this is 100% true and happened last Sunday.

I walked by my reptile room, and noticed something out of the corner of my eye. I went over, and found one of my large female ball python the floor! She escaped from her vision cage! The door was slightly open, so I figured I must've left it open just a lil bit... enough for her to squeeze out. I also noticed another cage on the other side of the room was open a lil bit. This cage is where I keep my White Lip python. He was still in there, but I was concerned because I never leave cages open.

I put her back in the cage, closed both cages and left the room. I went back a few hours later, and again, the vision was open and she was gone! I freaked out because nobody else went into the room! I searched for hours for her all over the place. She was nowhere to be found. I then noticed that the white lip python cage was open... again!!!! :eek: I looked in the cage, and the white lip was still in there chilling out. But guess who was in there as well.... yup! The female was in his lil hide spot under the heater while he was on the other side of the cage! Can you believe this? I've (rarely) had snakes escape before (never from a vision though), but I've NEVER had one leave a cage and open up another one to go inside!!! Both cages have heavy sliding glass doors.

So, now she's in with the white lip and they are just hanging out together. I figure, hey, if she wants in that bad, why not just leave her there?

I have no idea why she did this, unless she retained sperm from this past breeding season and is cycling herself to lay eggs again!

Has anyone had anything close to this happen to them??? :confused:

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i just wanted to point out... he never asked us for our opinion, nor did he ask for advice. he simply asked if anyone else ever experienced this.

and... thanks for being so level headed with your responses dan. :rockon:

now, i'm not saying i agree with you dan... but people are dissing you for not taking their advice... and i just want to point out you never asked for any.

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Originally Posted by TheAudOne

Who is this breeder??????

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the breeder friend of mine will be posting in a day or so... I just sent him this link to read.

Oh, and RG, that's fine if you don't agree with me... everyone is entitled to their opinion. And you are correct, I wasn't asking for any advice... I was just sharing a very unusual story... :)

I put her back in her cage, and guess where she went... up against the glass trying to get out. Now she's just resting her head on the front ledge gazing out at the White Lip cage, wishing... hoping.... but alas, there is a lock on it now...

I took some pics, but you need to publish them and then link them... I don't have a place to publish right now... I can send them to someone to publish if they want... e-mail me if u wanna do this...

you can put them in your gallery :) and link them into the thread with the link available at the bottom of your image once you've uploaded it :)

I don't know where this gallery is... can you help?

In other news, I love how some of you guys take yourselves so seriously... lol! I just noticed some "reputation comments" in my folder... 3 negatives and one positive (thanks Aleesha:) ) most are unsigned... no suprise there... kinda like a child... poke someone in the back and then run and hide. It just shows how closed minded and childish some people can be. I find it absolutely hysterical how serious some of you take this forum... (not all of course, but you know who you are)... not only leaving positive and negative remarks... that's just funny in an of itself! But also because you leave them because you disagree with me... lol! Man, some people need to get a life!

In a discussion with my breeder friend, 15-20 years ago (yes, I've had snakes longer than 15 years... more like 20 thank you very much), we all kept snakes together and thought nothing of it. I remember having 2 burms and a rock in one cage that was 32sq. ft. I still have this cage! So, occasionally you might have a problem... well guess what, it's rare. It's not impossible, but it is rare. And guess what... these snakes were together for about 6 days and NOTHING HAPPENED! So, there's one success for the record books. (Almost) Myth busted! :D

Ya know what, Dan? (I'm assuming that's your name, if not, then my apologies) It's not that people take this particular forum so seriously. It's that most of the people who post here are deeply passionate about the welfare of animals. Not only theirs, but of all the animals they come across.


I'll be the first to admit that a lot of folks here are quick to jump the gun and start spitting out advice when it hasn't been asked for. But that's because they genuinely care about what may happen to the animals in question. Caring this deeply for matters completely out of our control may give some of us ulcers someday, but it's what we do. And the closest thing to control we'll ever have is to TRY and convince people that maybe there's a better way for their animals to live.

Are we always right? No. But our hearts are in the right place. And if you think this thread was so violently hostile, then I would imagine you haven't spent much time on many other forums. We work very hard to keep things as civil and even-handed as humanly possible. But...we are all human....and sometimes personalities and passions collide.

I'm sorry if you felt attacked. That was not anyone's intention.

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Originally Posted by DanRC30

I don't know where this gallery is... can you help?

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And to answer this question...if you look in the upper left hand corner of your screen, you'll see a small box that says "Main Menu." In that box is a link to the Gallery. Along the top of that new page you'll see a link to "My Gallery" and there you'll find all the upload tools you need.

If you go to the "Site Info" forum, you'll find two different threads "stickied" near the top of the page that explain how to use the gallery and place your pictures in your posts.

If you need more specific direction, let me know.

Wow all this just because a Ball Python went visiting a neighbor!!! I see a few people in this thread that I'm familiar with , not being into Balls others of you I've never run into before. I'm the person Dan was referring to though I can't lay claim to 30 years of breeding experience I've been keeping these critters for about that long.


Now some seem to really doubt Dan's story, now I wasn't there but I was talking to him on the phone when he found her in the cage with his White Lip. Now I don't think Dan is that good an actor so from the disbelief in his voice when he found her I tend to believe him and did stop by his place a couple days later and saw her in with the WL. Their cages are right across from each other and I also knew about her past escape.

I'll be the first to say that keeping snakes housed together isn't a good idea and I'm sure Dan will agree. But I've done it and know of others that have. Back in the 70s when I got my first exotics(gives ya an idea how old I am lol) which were a Ball and a Redtail I kept them housed together for years and didn't think twice about it. Sure something bad could have happened. I've done it since with large displays ETC and being into Arboreals we keep breeding pairs housed together for months on end. If you know the risk and still want to do it then it's your choice.

You put two snakes together your talking a risk and I could see if Dan came here and asked if keeping them together was good or bad but he didn't. He told a story of something that did happen that I thought was interesting to say the least. And look at the response he has received from many of you. I'm not a regular here so don't really care if I piss ya off. Believe the guy or not but to pretty much call him a liar and beat him up for not taking your advice that wasn't asked for or needed is really low. Many of the responses in this thread sure don't say much for the membership here. You start flaming a guy for telling you of a rather odd and interesting happening. Makes me wonder how many are afraid to ask a question here or to tell an experience here all because they fear getting beat up by keyboard bullys. Get a grip Folks..Randy


30021944.2 Ants, really hard to probe
1.3 dogs,, they bite when you probe them
0.2 humans,, said don't even think about it
0.1 Fat cat,, runs when she See's the probe
8.12 horses,, that kick when you try to probe them
Having you read this --priceless

Crazy story... It would be cool of you to post some pics of your snake room when you figure out how:D. It sounds like you have a big variety of snakes in there. I'd love to see it!

Seeing as how I'm a newbie, Dan, I was just wondering what are the benefits of housing a bp and white-lipped python together? Thanks in advance.

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Originally Posted by Mr. H

Seeing as how I'm a newbie, Dan, I was just wondering what are the benefits of housing a bp and white-lipped python together? Thanks in advance.

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Mr. H, you'll need to go back to the beginning of the thread and read... it will all make sense to you then...

Thanks Judy. Ok, let's hope this works...
http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...=3&userid=3792
http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...IMG_2046.1.JPG
http://www.ball-pythons.net/gallery/...IMG_2047.1.JPG

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Originally Posted by ravensgait

Many of the responses in this thread sure don't say much for the membership here.

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I'm sorry you feel that way, but I can assure you that this is far from the truth. You simply cannot judge an entire community by considering the responses made by a few members as being inappropiate in your opinion.

Bp.net is a family oriented site. Anyone and everyone is welcome to post their opinions or ask a question without having to fear a backlash. We have new people joining everyday and doing exactly that and expressing their total satisfaction with our little community. I'm sorry that this thread got off on the wrong foot and wish to let you know that both you gentleman are welcome to stay and contribute in any manner that you can. Peace out!

Here's some food for thought in an attempt to actually add to the topic unlike my other post:

Ball pythons or any snake really will attempt to escape, what else do they have to do all day?

When enclosures are not *properly* secured or if the enclosures are not of good quality that have proper locking mechanisms...they WILL get out.

Ball's require heat...the first place they go when they escape is towards another heat source. Its more than likely that its not that your ball WANTS to be with the white lip...but that it wants to be near the HEAT. If that enclosure is also not secured properly the escaped snake may enter on the NECESITY of heat, NOT thinking "oh there's my white lip buddy!"

You wanted to know what's best for your animals and you've got it. If your "friend" truly has 30yrs experience and comes here he had better have something to back up the claims because there are people here with less than a year's experience with the common sense to know that housing multiple snakes together is a disaster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

You wanted to know what's best for your animals and you've got it. If your "friend" truly has 30yrs experience and comes here he had better have something to back up the claims because there are people here with less than a year's experience with the common sense to know that housing multiple snakes together is a disaster.

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Go back a page... my friend already posted...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

Here's some food for thought in an attempt to actually add to the topic unlike my other post:

Ball pythons or any snake really will attempt to escape, what else do they have to do all day?

When enclosures are not *properly* secured or if the enclosures are not of good quality that have proper locking mechanisms...they WILL get out.

Ball's require heat...the first place they go when they escape is towards another heat source. Its more than likely that its not that your ball WANTS to be with the white lip...but that it wants to be near the HEAT. If that enclosure is also not secured properly the escaped snake may enter on the NECESITY of heat, NOT thinking "oh there's my white lip buddy!"

You wanted to know what's best for your animals and you've got it. If your "friend" truly has 30yrs experience and comes here he had better have something to back up the claims because there are people here with less than a year's experience with the common sense to know that housing multiple snakes together is a disaster.

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Very well said Heath!

I'm sorry Dan that you feel attacked. That I'm sure is no one's intent here. We are all, however, very aware that newcomers to herp keeping come here regularily and need to be informed of what is considered to be general rules of safe keeping of snakes. Sometimes that passion to educate can go overboard.

However, I will continue to stand by my post and cannot accept your response that plexi-glass was a happy accident. A lot of things are invented by necessity or accident. These are inanimate, non-living examples and have no bearing on this situation.

My moral stance when it comes to living creatures is that they deserve better decisions from a human keeper. We are in complete control of their existance as caged creatures after all. We choose when and if they can reproduce and for me anyways, that carries a weight of responsiblity. Whether it's our snakes or in fact, our breeder/feeder rat colony I will not allow myself "accidents". Breeding living creatures should always involves a lot of thought and planning, both for the breeders involved and all subsequent offspring.

[QUOTE=DanRC30] So, as full of yourselves as you are, you all don't know EVERYTHING. QUOTE]

No one said they know everything.


I like this one too, Joe....:8:

EDITED BY JLC -- You go too far, Justin.

Wow it is way too hard to ignore this...

Housing multiple snakes together is unneccesary stress. You're friend with "30 years experience" seems to not know what he's talking about. Why would you let them be together when YOU KNOW snakes are solitary animals and don't need companionship. (if you really have been keeping snakes for that long)

Snakes don't cuddle. PERIOD.

LOL at justin ...

Ok, my advice to everyone is to stop feeding this thread and let bygons be bygons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bpkid

Wow it is way too hard to ignore this...

Housing multiple snakes together is unneccesary stress. You're friend with "30 years experience" seems to not know what he's talking about. Why would you let them be together when YOU KNOW snakes are solitary animals and don't need companionship. (if you really have been keeping snakes for that long)

Snakes don't cuddle. PERIOD.

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How can you be so presumptious? Have you conducted studies and interviewed snakes? What were the results?

I absolutely disagree with this 100%. I think some snakes do in fact like company. If you don't well, that's you opinion and you're entitled to it. Just remember, everyone thought the earth was flat until Columbus proved them wrong. There is no way to really determine if they don't like company unless you ask them... and if you name isn't Harry Potter, then you're not qualified.

Here's my final comment as I feel I'm beginnning to repeat myself here... The reason for this post was to tell an unusual story of a snake escaping and breaking into another cage by opening a sliding glass door. That's it. I told my story, and I'm done. I never asked anyone for their opinion on leaving them together, and I don't feel I need to justify my actions to anyone on this board. My snakes are fine, and are probably among the best cared for animals in the world. I have nice cages, heat panels, and Helix Thermostats. My animals and happy, and healthy.

'Nuff said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bpkid

Ok, my advice to everyone is to stop feeding this thread and let bygons be bygons.

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I agree.

:rockon:

-Andre

hi dan,

i'm really sorry your thread has turned out as it did. may i give my brief explanation though? well, since i have you as a captive audience... i think i will LOL :P

as any forum on the internet... people are anonymous. it makes it hard sometimes because people who are referred to as 'trolls' come on... say something outrageous and... unfortunately the members (myself included) don't just leave the thread alone... we feel the need to say something. (hey, some members spend hours a day on the forum... they need something to "get into")

so it begins. and most times... it takes forever for these threads to die because many of the people (some who don't know a lot about the subject), just have to get in there post their opinion.

ah yes, it's all part of forum life.

but, what i really want to discuss with you... is that few people here or on other forums i've visited, will accept that animals are intelligent, possibly social beings. i do. if you clicked on my links you'd see i publish a magazine with a regular columnist, Dawn Brunke - an animal communicator. but any time i've attempted to say, "well perhaps this animal like "insert action here" it's gotten shot down. same thing happens on the tarantula forum i used to visit... except there i also got made fun of :( got so bad i stopped going there. many don't believe that animals carry any human traits (which is funny cause i say... what makes them a human trait and not a "insert animal here" trait that we are also sharing?)

not everyone is interested in hearing that man isn't the top of the totem pole... and because of the restrictions on this site regarding religion and spirituality (the threads get shut down as this is a snake forum not a religious one) (and i agree with them about this... cause there are some people who are pretty radical in their beliefs and i don't wanna hear/read em here) so we don't really get to talk about this topic - can snakes be social animals with a need for companionship - whether that is with a human or another snake (or in some cases... any other animal like a hamster for example).

so... i've learned to talk about it in my magazine... and on forums where i have like-minded people... but not here.

i really hope you stay here... cause we can use more great posting members. the way you handled yourself in that thread was AMAZING! so articulate and well presented without flaming... after all, it's our members who make this place great and i think you'd be a great addition!

[QUOTE=stangs13]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DanRC30

EDITED BY JLC -- You go too far, Justin.

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Thats how I roll.....Sorry.;) :P

In the end it's the owner's responsiblity, I agree. However, I still have my own opinion and my opinion (that many people share) is that housing together is taking a completly unneccesary risk. Good luck and I hope nothing bad happens.