Did I end up getting a female pastel from the tampa show?

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Hey, it's *Instant Expert* over here! Do a search, geeze...;)

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damn:( is overnight giving too much credit? :P LOL seriously though, when you've had 2 BP's for a few months, that does not give you the experience/knowledge to go spew your "knowledge" or conlcusions about the species as a whole, on a message board ;)

If its working for you Rapture and your snakes accept this as the way they are fed, then by all means go for it.
I also clean out there homes on feed day, but I clean in the morning/afternoon and feed at night.

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Originally Posted by jessie_k_pythons

so now your saying I;m wrong for stunning my rats or buying f/t or for even (got forbid) pk them so my snakes dont get bit..

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Who said it was wrong to buy F/T? And who said it was okay to PK by cracking them against your wall?

Well I will claim no expertese, Thats why I am here.
I am trying to learn. I have read up alot on ball pythons and owned a few but I won't sit here and claim anything. I just want to keep learning and I invite any constructive critisism.

So far everyone seems pretty quick to come with it so I appreciate the helpful information. But like I said I was told by someone about the feeding inside the cage and i went by it. I given the information by an untrustful source and I went by it. The sad thing was it was a reptile store owner who gave it to me.

As far as feeding goes. I will go ahead and start feeding my snakes live rodents.
The only reason again that i fed stunned was because I was given information by a petstore owner and again I went by it. I guess I should just stick to
ball-pythons.net

Can't knock me for trying to learn and asking questions.

Only TRYING to do the right thing. I just need to be more cautious in who I ask.
But thats why I like coming on here because I can get multiple answers from different people who have the experience.

So guess what i really should be saying is thank you for the people correcting me in what i'm doing wrong. (I just want to do the right things for my snakes)

If I hadn't started this account on here I wouldn't have known alot that I do now.


:rockon:

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Originally Posted by Rapture

Also, I feed both in the snakes' enclosures and out. I usually like to clean enclosures on the same day I feed (unless they made a big mess in there before feeding day), so I introduce live prey into their enclosure, wait for the snake to strike and constrict, and then move them to another area so I can clean their enclosure while they are eating. When they are finished, I put them back in their clean enclosure. Any thoughts on this?

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If it's working for you, ROCK ON! ... I've picked up pairs of snakes locked up and moved them to clean their cage ... put them back in and they just keep going ... I think it has more to do with your animals trust in you than anything else ... something that works with a snake that you've had for 5+ years, might not work on a new arrival.

ROCK ON!

-adam

You're right, now that I think of it, I only "disturb" the snakes that I know really won't be disturbed by it at all... I subconsciously treat them all differently depending on their individual behavior. There are only about 2 that I have that I think my interference may bother, and I naturally just don't interrupt them.

So pardon me for sounding stupid for asking this but i'm going to...


SO under extreme supervision Its fine to throw in a live rat in my tank with all the branches, hides and other obstructions?

Less stressful on the snake and rat?

do a search here on live feeding or proper ways to feed live. there is plenty of info to dig up!


vaughn

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Originally Posted by Rapture

I subconsciously treat them all differently depending on their individual behavior.

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PERFECT!

-adam

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

So pardon me for sounding stupid for asking this but i'm going to...


SO under extreme supervision Its fine to throw in a live rat in my tank with all the branches, hides and other obstructions?

Less stressful on the snake and rat?

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I don't think you sound stupid. Yes, if you supervise, it is preferred to just feed your snake in its own home without disrupting any of its usual environment. To minimize any chances of your snake getting bit, do the following:

1. Watch
2. Make sure the rat is fed and watered
3. Try not to freak the rat out any more than necessary...a "relaxed" rat is not going to be so immediately defensive.
4. Learn your snake's eating style...so you'll know exactly when to take the rat out of the enclosure. For instance, if my snake is going to eat, she will hit the rat as soon as it reaches her tub. If she doesn't show immediate interest, the rat will not stay in her tub for more than 2-3 minutes. If you have a slow eater, you may have to be willing to watch and wait a little longer, but you'll learn how to tell if they are interested in eating that day or not.

No one is picking on you in this thread....just trying to help you think through some reasoning on some old myths that are still circulating. If you (and anyone else reading this) understand the reasons WHY the myths are incorrect, then they are more likely to eventually die away, and you'll have a better overall understanding of your snake.

Thank you for the helpful information...

As far as the picking on me thing, I don't think anybody is. I just want people to understand someone gave me wrongful information and I took it in because I didn't know myself. I am one of those people where I want to know as much as I can about something. Especially if I'm responsible for a living breathing animal. I want to know the most I can about ball pythons. I mean, I love my ball pythons so much. When it comes to owning a pet I want to say so badly that these are the best to own.

no barking, I don't have to take it out, I don't have to pick up after it, No chewing of my stuff, No litter box and I only have to feed 'em once a week.
What more could you want from a pet lol...

:cens0r: the people giving out the wrong information!!!


AND MOST OF THE TIME ITS PETSTORES!!!

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

Can't knock me for trying to learn and asking questions.

Only TRYING to do the right thing. I just need to be more cautious in who I ask.
But thats why I like coming on here because I can get multiple answers from different people who have the experience.

So guess what i really should be saying is thank you for the people correcting me in what i'm doing wrong. (I just want to do the right things for my snakes)

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Sometimes we are very direct with our responses, and I assure you, its not an attack on you as an individual. Some of us sugar-coat things in our responses and other do not. That's awesome you are able to take in the info objectively regardless of its delivery and you will fit in very well here being able to do so. Glad we were able to help.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

So you do feed or don't feed in a seperate enclosure now?

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I don't have any balls I feed outside their regular rack tub right now.

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I don't agree at all. Ball pythons by nature are ambush predators and are acutely designed to nailing rodents with plenty of "environmental interference." They are very in tune with their surroundings, and altering their surroundings (by removing the snake from them) may cause their feeding response to turn off.

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Your taking this a direction I don't care to go...getting into what's "natural" and talking about how ball pythons are designed to survive in the wild is well... somewhat out of our context of conversation. We are not feeding these snkes in the wild obviously, and the act of feeding captive animals would be considered a controlled environment...nothing like the situations the wild counterparts would be subject to. In the ball pythons I've had that started out on live I've had no issues feeding them in a seperate container and usually covered to block out light and outside distractions. As well I still have some that started this way and have been adapted to take pre-killed with no issues. -You can agree or disagree, this is simply what I have experienced...and that's not made up.

I can see Adam's point on causing more stress in some animals. I will definately take that into consideration when I have another "live feeder" that will not accept anything else. My motives are simply that I when in the rack system I can't see what a live rodent may be doing as well through the plastic tub. I want to know for darn sure what is happening and I don't like the idea of opening and closing a tub drawer as that will no doubt cause serious stress and possible accidents.

This is an honest question and I am not trying anyone's knowledge on what is "right" or "wrong". Isn't it possible that a live feeding snake could get stressed out just as by having a live rodent in its enclosure where it generally feels "safe"? This is directed at live only now.


Respectully

-TW

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

:cens0r: the people giving out the wrong information!!!


AND MOST OF THE TIME ITS PETSTORES!!!

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That's just the way it is. I don't get mad about it....but maybe I'm used to it and jaded to it by now. I know there are a few truly good and knowledgeable pet stores out there...but for the most part, they don't know a thing about the animals they sell...especially anything that's not warm blooded. Just realize that and consider anything they tell you about how to care for your animal as suspect.

I was given wrongful information about feeding in the cage. I have since then changed my mind about it. That was earlier on in the thread before finding out that it was a myth that a petstore had passed on to me.

(sad thing was, it was a reptile store who told me)

I figured that much about petco and petland and such but...
I got my information from a reptile store...That's what kinda upsets me.
I'm not raging angry but I am dissapointed

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Sometimes we are very direct with our responses, and I assure you, its not an attack on you as an individual. Some of us sugar-coat things in our responses and other do not. That's awesome you are able to take in the info objectively regardless of its delivery and you will fit in very well here being able to do so. Glad we were able to help.

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Believe me I work in sales...lol
Nothing anybody says is really going to offend me. Say what you will about my methods of care wether its right or wrong I APPRECIATE the constructive critisism. If it can be said in a not so direct response stating what i'm doing right or wrong awesome. Otherwise at the end of the day I'm still learning.
Thats why I'm here.

If I was really offended I'd go to some other forum but I feel with the name
Ball-pythons.net and a group of people dedicated to ball pythons I can't be in a better site for information. So once again wether your very direct or not I appreciate and thank you for the valuable information that i learn from you.
:rockon:

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

Your taking this a direction I don't care to go...getting into what's "natural" and talking about how ball pythons are designed to survive in the wild is well... somewhat out of our context of conversation. We are not feeding these snkes in the wild obviously, and the act of feeding captive animals would be considered a controlled environment...nothing like the situations the wild counterparts would be subject to. In the ball pythons I've had that started out on live I've had no issues feeding them in a seperate container and usually covered to block out light and outside distractions. As well I still have some that started this way and have been adapted to take pre-killed with no issues. -You can agree or disagree, this is simply what I have experienced...and that's not made up.

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That statement was NOT made in reference to balls in the wild, and was certainly not out of context in any way. This is one of the few instances where characteristics developed in the wild actually DO apply in captivity, contrary to what you are stating above. Ball pythons are ambush predators, thermoregulate, and sense weather patterns in the wild and in captivity, thats just what they do.

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I can see Adam's point on causing more stress in some animals. I will definately take that into consideration when I have another "live feeder" that will not accept anything else. My motives are simply that I when in the rack system I can't see what a live rodent may be doing as well through the plastic tub. I want to know for darn sure what is happening and I don't like the idea of opening and closing a tub drawer as that will no doubt cause serious stress and possible accidents.

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In no way does placing a rodent inside a ball python's enclosure cause MORE stress than removing the snake, putting them in unfamiliar surroundings, with nothing but it and a rodent running around left and right? What are you basing that on? Moreover, I assure you, opening and closing the tub doesn't affect either the rodent or the snake. If you had any experience with what you are trying to argue, you'd know that.

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This is an honest question and I am not trying anyone's knowledge on what is "right" or "wrong". Isn't it possible that a live feeding snake could get stressed out just as by having a live rodent in its enclosure where it generally feels "safe"? This is directed at live only now.

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Sure, if they aren't hungry. If they are, they usually hit the rodent the first chance they get. Any responsible live feeder (the person) checks on things frequently and can "read" their animals as far as whether or not they are hungry. If they remain coiled in their hide, showing no interest in feeding, the rat is removed. You have to get to know your animals a little bit and interpret their behavior.


Respectfully,
Brad

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

If I was really offended I'd go to some other forum but I feel with the name
Ball-pythons.net and a group of people dedicated to ball pythons I can't be in a better site for information. So once again wether your very direct or not I appreciate and thank you for the valuable information that i learn from you.
:rockon:

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This is another example of life being full or trial and error. Try it out you might like it better in the long run.
I know how you feel when you state that your doing things one way (because you were told by what you thought was a pro.) and find out that it was a$$ backward.
Again trial and error. Good luck to you with it, let us know how things go.

~Audrey

THank you audrey!

I am addicted to this site almost as much as I am to my snakes. So you guys will see the progression of my snakes lives as they grow as well as my collection of them and my very own knowledge.

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

THank you audrey!

I am addicted to this site almost as much as I am to my snakes. So you guys will see the progression of my snakes lives as they grow as well as my collection of them and my very own knowledge.

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I know what you mean....I cant get enough of the site or my lil ball pythons.
I need to capture more on film though...I would love to be able to look back years from now and remember them all when I first started. *note to self..take more pictures*

*Note to myself


Invest in a digital camera so I can take much much better quality photo's

Yes...we need a constant supply of good pics or you'll get chased away in a hurry. Just a warning...;)

I'm serious though, A good digi camera and I think I might have a chance at BPOM... My gallery doesn't show it but... With a good camera to take the right angles and backdrop and its happenin. = )


The photo's on my gallery were taken by a camera phone = (

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

Your taking this a direction I don't care to go...getting into what's "natural" and talking about how ball pythons are designed to survive in the wild is well... somewhat out of our context of conversation. We are not feeding these snkes in the wild obviously, and the act of feeding captive animals would be considered a controlled environment.

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You've completely misunderstood what I said. My advocation of a non-barren enclosure has nothing to do with what a ball pythons wild environment is like and it has EVERYTHING to do with providing them with the tools that they need to capitalize on a feeding style that they have developed over thousands of years ... they are ambush predators ... they hunt from a hidden position and wait to attack prey when the opporunity arises ... their INSTINCT does not comprehend eating in the open ... when they do ambush prey from hidden positions, they use the hide as cover for their bodies so as to not be exposed to rodent claws or teeth and at the same time predators.

I keep my snakes in a very sterile environment ... unprinted paper, plastic tubs, etc ... nothing is "wild" about my husbandry ... but, I do strongly believe that in order to maximise your success with these animals, you do have to understand "how" they tick ... just like I wouldn't pull a green tree python off of a perch to try and feed it, I would NEVER remove my ball pythons hide in order to feed it.

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

In the ball pythons I've had that started out on live I've had no issues feeding them in a seperate container and usually covered to block out light and outside distractions.

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I totally respect that ... but I think if you had the opportunity to work with these animals in large numbers, you'd see a different side of them ... one animal is certainly not representative of the behavior of an entire species.

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

This is an honest question and I am not trying anyone's knowledge on what is "right" or "wrong". Isn't it possible that a live feeding snake could get stressed out just as by having a live rodent in its enclosure where it generally feels "safe"? This is directed at live only now.

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I don't have as much experience as some, but at this point with 2006 hatchlings, I'm feeding well over 500 live rodents every Monday and my honest answer is no. My "routine" for live feeding is so solid that 99% of my animals grab the rat before it even hits the cage floor ... the remaining 1% stalk ... they pursue the rodent from the safety of their hide as it approaches ... never have I seen a sign of stress on feeding day with the exception of a new animal that has been brought in and has not had time to learn the routine yet.

When conditioned correctly, ball pythons are AMAZINGLY AGGRESSIVE feeders! You're welcome to come by my place any feeding day and see for yourself!

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You're welcome to come by my place any feeding day and see for yourself!

-adam

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Adam invites everyone over...he really knows how to make a girl feel special!
But I think personally I would love to see it, I'm going on the 13th to see our reptile store feed over 30 of there snakes F/T, I'm more excited to see that then anything.

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Originally Posted by TheAudOne

Adam invites everyone over

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You're the only one I'm actually serious about. :love: ;) :P

-adam

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I keep my snakes in a very sterile environment ... unprinted paper, plastic tubs, etc ... nothing is "wild" about my husbandry ... but, I do strongly believe that in order to maximise your success with these animals, you do have to understand "how" they tick ... just like I wouldn't pull a green tree python off of a perch to try and feed it, I would NEVER remove my ball pythons hide in order to feed it.

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...best analogy I've ever heard to illustrate the point. Dammit I didn't come up with that first...

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You're the only one I'm actually serious about. :love: ;) :P

-adam

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Oh shut up....you and I both would clam up and freak out if we met in person.

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Originally Posted by TheAudOne

Oh shut up....you and I both would clam up and freak out if we met in person.

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HA...not Adam! :rofl:

oh great, then he's a liar! He said last night on here that he to was also all talk. I imagine going to meet him expecting this shy person, and then getting the shock of my life lol.

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Originally Posted by JLC

HA...not Adam! :rofl:

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:P

-adam

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

That statement was NOT made in reference to balls in the wild, and was certainly not out of context in any way. This is one of the few instances where characteristics developed in the wild actually DO apply in captivity, contrary to what you are stating above. Ball pythons are ambush predators, thermoregulate, and sense weather patterns in the wild and in captivity, thats just what they do.

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I am quite aware of all of these characteristics thank you. I can see where your coming from in the one thing the snake is not technically not performing...the ambush. Still the actions I have seen when feeding in a seperate tub could be considered an ambush if your definition is that of performing an action with the element of suprise. No there is no hide involved or water dish if you consider those as requirements for an ambush feeding.

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In no way does placing a rodent inside a ball python's enclosure cause MORE stress than removing the snake, putting them in unfamiliar surroundings, with nothing but it and a rodent running around left and right? What are you basing that on? Moreover, I assure you, opening and closing the tub doesn't affect either the rodent or the snake. If you had any experience with what you are trying to argue, you'd know that.

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You where simply not reading me right here...I was saying that I will take into consideration that feeding a BP OUT of its normal tub/enclosure could cause more stress. I did NOT state that placing a rodent in a BP's regular enclosure causes MORE stress nor did I write that. As to causing stress by opening and closing tubs...well even with the BP's I feed pre-killed to if I simply place the rodent in the tub and open it BEFORE the strike it almost always guarantees to distract the snakes attention from the food. I only assume that causes at least some stress since "feeding mode" has started. I also resent your naive attempt at putting me down and stating that I have no experience with what I am trying to argue. You are wrong on both accounts...I am not arguing if you are feeling hostility it is your own. I am simply stating things I have seen and *experienced*. I think it humorous that you think I'm "arguing" things I am making up...please I have better things to do with my time.

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Sure, if they aren't hungry. If they are, they usually hit the rodent the first chance they get. Any responsible live feeder (the person) checks on things frequently and can "read" their animals as far as whether or not they are hungry. If they remain coiled in their hide, showing no interest in feeding, the rat is removed. You have to get to know your animals a little bit and interpret their behavior.

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I couldn't agree more with everything here. I do have one female who is almost always slow to come out of her hide when I place her pre killed food item in her tub...to some this may read as "I'm not interested" but she has yet to suprise me and not end up coming out to feed.

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Respectfully,
Brad

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Please if your going to reply to me again with a negative remark or put down, don't sign "respectfully" as it really takes the meaning out of it.

I also want to reiterate that I am NOT arguing a single thing nor have I said that what anyone else has stated was wrong. No I may not have gobs of ball pythons but I have more than one and it is perfectly accurate to say that yes I would observe things differently if I had more...but I don't, as well as I'm sure the views of many others here are from the point of small collections or even a single animal.

Adam, will you make good on your offer :) :P

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

Adam, will you make good on your offer :) :P

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Of course I will ... I'm very passionate about my views and how I do things, but I'm also mature enough and intelligent enough to know that my ways aren't the "only" ways ... I can very much disagree with how a fellow herper/breeder/hobbyist feeds their animals, houses them, or even runs their business and at the same time share the experience of enjoying being around awesome animals and putting a few beers (soda, water, whatever) back ... my only criteria is that they are good people ... It's never ever personal with me and my word is always good ... you're welcome anytime.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I don't care so much about that ... what works for one, might not work for others ... as long as the snake is eating ... BFD (that's big, deal, and something else for the slow ones).

There are just so many BS myths in this hobby that get circulated and re-circulated by people that don't even have the experience to know if what they're talking about is even true ... that's what I will stand up on my soap box over ... not the way someone chooses to care for their animal if it's working for them.

-adam

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Hallllla-looya brother Adam!!
(sorry; I just completely agree.)

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Originally Posted by Rapture

If your male was probed as a male, and then probed as a female, and then guessed to be a male again... if it really is a female, wouldn't it be horribly ripped inside by now?

Also, I feed both in the snakes' enclosures and out. I usually like to clean enclosures on the same day I feed (unless they made a big mess in there before feeding day), so I introduce live prey into their enclosure, wait for the snake to strike and constrict, and then move them to another area so I can clean their enclosure while they are eating. When they are finished, I put them back in their clean enclosure. Any thoughts on this?

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You know what I think? If this is working for you, and your snakes are consistently eating, I see nothing wrong.

You know, it really seems to me that the Original Poster had good intentions; read-up on caresheets, and was just a little misinformed somewhere about the whole moving-to-feed thing. It may be somethig that works for some people.
I just want to let you know, OP, that none of my snakes are aggressive as a result of being fed in their cages. It takes a few moments for it to "set i" that a prey item is there; at first honestly, most of them recoil when the lid's being removed off their home. But they see that rat dropped in there, and strike. None of my 5 snakes will strike at me as I go to remove them from their cage or clean something in there.

This thread has made me sleepy...

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Of course I will ... I'm very passionate about my views and how I do things, but I'm also mature enough and intelligent enough to know that my ways aren't the "only" ways ... I can very much disagree with how a fellow herper/breeder/hobbyist feeds their animals, houses them, or even runs their business and at the same time share the experience of enjoying being around awesome animals and putting a few beers (soda, water, whatever) back ... my only criteria is that they are good people ... It's never ever personal with me and my word is always good ... you're welcome anytime.

-adam

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Can't ask for anything more in a guy. All I try and do also is share my experiences and thoughts when they are asked and I to can be appreciative of the fact that they may not work for others however I put them out there for others to consider.

You are not only a humble human but a humble herper as well with the passion to share your knowledge, experience, and ideas in manor that your word is conveyed precisely and exactly as you intend...THAT makes you and others stand out.

I will have to see about a trip up your way someday.

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Originally Posted by JLC

but for the most part, they don't know a thing about the animals they sell...especially anything that's not warm blooded. Just realize that and consider anything they tell you about how to care for your animal as suspect.

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I totally agree. I was looking around one of our locally owned pet shops, and the owner was determined to sell me UV lighting and other various lamps.:rolleye2:
She said "Improper UV lighting will be detrimental to your snake's health!"

Really. Tell that to all those breeders out there with rack systems... Sheesh.:)