I think my snake loves me

If one more person votes for " My snake loves me." I'm just going to give up snakes lol. Forget jumping from a cliff.

J/K I 'm not going to give up my snakes because some people don't get it.

can the people that voted "i know my snake loves me!" please define love and how your snakes loves you to me?

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Originally Posted by mr~python

can the people that voted "i know my snake loves me!" please define love and how your snakes loves you to me?

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I already did.

No, you explained how they can feel secure and not scared of people. That doesn't mean they love you. That just means they are tolerating handling...

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Originally Posted by RWillinnable

So, you are saying that love, whatever that term may mean or whatever you think it means, is incapable of emerging from any lower level functioning area of the brain. Or if you prefer Freudian terms, love can only spring from the Ego. I disagree.

I think the main problem with this discussion, other than the sophomoric glee people are extracting from their feelings of supposed superiority to others, is that the word love is by far the most overly used word in the English language. Do I think a snake is capable of love like romantic love? Of course not. Do I think a snake is capable of love like the love that The Christ or The Buddha had for the world? Absolutely not. Do I even think that a snake can feel empathy? Again, no. But can a snake feel safe, secure, emboldened, and not threatened by another being living in close proximity to it? Yes, I do. And those feelings are some of the feelings that I ascribe to the word love.

The idea of love encompasses many things. To extract love of all but its logical and emotional elements is to diminish it.

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do what now??
i do not believe for a minute that feeling secure or emboldened or safe are a definiton of love. i have never won a debate and gone "wow, i feel empowered LOVE YES" or some other .. thing that has caused emboldenment in my own personal self. yes love is very over used- but those words, they have no relation to the word love, they can be put into a sentence with the word love- but as far as someone using the word 'secure' as a synonym for love. nope.


Dictionary dot com:
and i hope im not diminishing it..?
1. a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
2. a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.
3. sexual passion or desire.
4. a person toward whom love is felt; beloved person; sweetheart.
5. (used in direct address as a term of endearment, affection, or the like): Would you like to see a movie, love?
6. a love affair; an intensely amorous incident; amour.
7. sexual intercourse; copulation.
8. (initial capital letter) a personification of sexual affection, as Eros or Cupid.
9. affectionate concern for the well-being of others: the love of one's neighbor.
10. strong predilection, enthusiasm, or liking for anything: her love of books.
11. the object or thing so liked: The theater was her great love.
12. the benevolent affection of God for His creatures, or the reverent affection due from them to God.
13. Chiefly Tennis. a score of zero; nothing.
14. a word formerly used in communications to represent the letter L.
–verb (used with object) 15. to have love or affection for: All her pupils love her.
16. to have a profoundly tender, passionate affection for (another person).
17. to have a strong liking for; take great pleasure in: to love music.
18. to need or require; benefit greatly from: Plants love sunlight.
19. to embrace and kiss (someone), as a lover.
20. to have sexual intercourse with.
–verb (used without object) 21. to have love or affection for another person; be in love.
—Verb phrase22. love up, to hug and cuddle: She loves him up every chance she gets.
—Idioms23. for love, a. out of affection or liking; for pleasure.
b. without compensation; gratuitously: He took care of the poor for love.

24. for the love of, in consideration of; for the sake of: For the love of mercy, stop that noise.
25. in love, infused with or feeling deep affection or passion: a youth always in love.
26. in love with, feeling deep affection or passion for (a person, idea, occupation, etc.); enamored of: in love with the girl next door; in love with one's work.
27. make love, a. to embrace and kiss as lovers.
b. to engage in sexual activity.

28. no love lost, dislike; animosity: There was no love lost between the two brothers.


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[Origin: bef. 900; (n.) ME; OE lufu, c. OFris luve, OHG luba, Goth lubō; (v.) ME lov(i)en, OE lufian; c. OFris luvia, OHG lubōn to love, L lubēre (later libēre) to be pleasing; akin to lief]


—Synonyms 1. tenderness, fondness, predilection, warmth, passion, adoration. 1, 2. Love, affection, devotion all mean a deep and enduring emotional regard, usually for another person. Love may apply to various kinds of regard: the charity of the Creator, reverent adoration toward God or toward a person, the relation of parent and child, the regard of friends for each other, romantic feelings for another person, etc. Affection is a fondness for others that is enduring and tender, but calm. Devotion is an intense love and steadfast, enduring loyalty to a person; it may also imply consecration to a cause. 2. liking, inclination, regard, friendliness. 15. like. 16. adore, adulate, worship.
—Antonyms 1, 2. hatred, dislike. 15, 16. detest, hate.

now, if you feel that some how we are taking bits of 'love' and forgetting others i am for one a bit offended. i have several types of love- for my boyfriend who i intend to spend the rest of my life with and endow a great deal of my heart and emotion- the love for my family, friends, pets and things that i enjoy to do at leasure- i am sorry, i do not feel in any shape form or fashion that anything a snake will feel or 'think' comes anywhere near any of those i have just described.

one might say that #10 could support your ideas BUT lets look at it a bit closer.
My Snake LOVES his tree limb.
reasons:
-stake out for prey
-protection from predators
-temperature/climate

you could say that that, is, indeed love but i have sever doubts, why? because the snake did not decide on that tree branch. through experience, location, or bodily needs did that snake pick that tree branch. only does it continue to go to the branch is because it -knows- it can get the food better and have a higher predatory success rate OR that it feels for the time being THAT is the location of safety when it is just as likely to hide anywhere else and FINALLY its BODY is telling it it needs that temperature, that humidity that basking spot RIGHT NOW for its on life's purposes. later its body will tell it to go higher or lower. snakes imo are like an organic machine, living breathing and deserving of the care and effort we bestow upon them, but a machine none the less.
eat. sleep. poop. shed. mate. reproduce. survive.

I would rep you for that awesome response, but I got this... :(

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to shhhli again."

geez I never thought 10 straight jackets would be rquired but it's heading that way :rolleye2:

very amusing this has turned out to be ( forked tongue firmly in cheek )

:D

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Originally Posted by snakey68

geez I never thought 10 straight jackets would be rquired but it's heading that way :rolleye2:

very amusing this has turned out to be ( forked tongue firmly in cheek )

:D

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*poke poke* i love your icon

bpkid: aren't you just the sweetest! lol.. spread it around...

my bps love nice warm weanlings!

thats for damn sure!

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Originally Posted by 4Khan

my bps love nice warm weanlings!

thats for damn sure!

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:banana: :clap: thats what im talkin about.

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Originally Posted by mr~python

:banana: :clap: thats what im talkin about.

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i believe most animals become conditioned...and most reactions are based on that.

oh..and PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME!

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Originally Posted by 4Khan

PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME!

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!!!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shhhli

do what now??
i do not believe for a minute that feeling secure or emboldened or safe are a definiton of love. i have never won a debate and gone "wow, i feel empowered LOVE YES" or some other .. thing that has caused emboldenment in my own personal self. yes love is very over used- but those words, they have no relation to the word love, they can be put into a sentence with the word love- but as far as someone using the word 'secure' as a synonym for love. nope.


Dictionary dot com:
and i hope im not diminishing it..?
1. a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
2. a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.
3. sexual passion or desire.
4. a person toward whom love is felt; beloved person; sweetheart.
5. (used in direct address as a term of endearment, affection, or the like): Would you like to see a movie, love?
6. a love affair; an intensely amorous incident; amour.
7. sexual intercourse; copulation.
8. (initial capital letter) a personification of sexual affection, as Eros or Cupid.
9. affectionate concern for the well-being of others: the love of one's neighbor.
10. strong predilection, enthusiasm, or liking for anything: her love of books.
11. the object or thing so liked: The theater was her great love.
12. the benevolent affection of God for His creatures, or the reverent affection due from them to God.
13. Chiefly Tennis. a score of zero; nothing.
14. a word formerly used in communications to represent the letter L.
–verb (used with object) 15. to have love or affection for: All her pupils love her.
16. to have a profoundly tender, passionate affection for (another person).
17. to have a strong liking for; take great pleasure in: to love music.
18. to need or require; benefit greatly from: Plants love sunlight.
19. to embrace and kiss (someone), as a lover.
20. to have sexual intercourse with.
–verb (used without object) 21. to have love or affection for another person; be in love.
—Verb phrase22. love up, to hug and cuddle: She loves him up every chance she gets.
—Idioms23. for love, a. out of affection or liking; for pleasure.
b. without compensation; gratuitously: He took care of the poor for love.

24. for the love of, in consideration of; for the sake of: For the love of mercy, stop that noise.
25. in love, infused with or feeling deep affection or passion: a youth always in love.
26. in love with, feeling deep affection or passion for (a person, idea, occupation, etc.); enamored of: in love with the girl next door; in love with one's work.
27. make love, a. to embrace and kiss as lovers.
b. to engage in sexual activity.

28. no love lost, dislike; animosity: There was no love lost between the two brothers.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: bef. 900; (n.) ME; OE lufu, c. OFris luve, OHG luba, Goth lub?; (v.) ME lov(i)en, OE lufian; c. OFris luvia, OHG lub?n to love, L lub?re (later lib?re) to be pleasing; akin to lief]


—Synonyms 1. tenderness, fondness, predilection, warmth, passion, adoration. 1, 2. Love, affection, devotion all mean a deep and enduring emotional regard, usually for another person. Love may apply to various kinds of regard: the charity of the Creator, reverent adoration toward God or toward a person, the relation of parent and child, the regard of friends for each other, romantic feelings for another person, etc. Affection is a fondness for others that is enduring and tender, but calm. Devotion is an intense love and steadfast, enduring loyalty to a person; it may also imply consecration to a cause. 2. liking, inclination, regard, friendliness. 15. like. 16. adore, adulate, worship.
—Antonyms 1, 2. hatred, dislike. 15, 16. detest, hate.

now, if you feel that some how we are taking bits of 'love' and forgetting others i am for one a bit offended. i have several types of love- for my boyfriend who i intend to spend the rest of my life with and endow a great deal of my heart and emotion- the love for my family, friends, pets and things that i enjoy to do at leasure- i am sorry, i do not feel in any shape form or fashion that anything a snake will feel or 'think' comes anywhere near any of those i have just described.

one might say that #10 could support your ideas BUT lets look at it a bit closer.
My Snake LOVES his tree limb.
reasons:
-stake out for prey
-protection from predators
-temperature/climate

you could say that that, is, indeed love but i have sever doubts, why? because the snake did not decide on that tree branch. through experience, location, or bodily needs did that snake pick that tree branch. only does it continue to go to the branch is because it -knows- it can get the food better and have a higher predatory success rate OR that it feels for the time being THAT is the location of safety when it is just as likely to hide anywhere else and FINALLY its BODY is telling it it needs that temperature, that humidity that basking spot RIGHT NOW for its on life's purposes. later its body will tell it to go higher or lower. snakes imo are like an organic machine, living breathing and deserving of the care and effort we bestow upon them, but a machine none the less.
eat. sleep. poop. shed. mate. reproduce. survive.

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You seem to claim that love can encompass nothing more than what is in the text of the definition in the dictionary. Love is a concept that artists and scientists have since the beginning of recorded time tried to define. A legalistic and inflexible definition from some on-line dictionary does not settle the debate for me about what love is and is not and I hope it doesn't settle the debate for others either.

Your entire argument seems to say that if another being can not love the way that you love your boyfriend, family, pets and what-not, then whatever they feel can not be considered to be love. In that case then I am a bit offended by your hubris.

I think that your definition of love does diminish it as a total concept because I do feel that safety, security, and emboldenment are parts of the overall concept of love. Maybe poets and authors do not wax on and on about these concepts, but try to experience love without them. That love would be like the proverbial house built on sand.

My male Baby knows me from any one else and comes up to me... it also might be the fact that I'm much warmer then every one in the house and that I smell like mice and rats.

My cat and my female rat wont leave me alone as well... ... :confused: :eek:
(I think I know why!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RWillinnable

Your entire argument seems to say that if another being can not love the way that you love your boyfriend, family, pets and what-not, then whatever they feel can not be considered to be love. In that case then I am a bit offended by your hubris.

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If what you say is true then you won't have a problem nameing a few animals and the actions they exibit that you interpret as an expression of love. You can start with the ball python you own, I'm curious.

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

If what you say is true then you won't have a problem nameing a few animals and the actions they exibit that you interpret as an expression of love. You can start with the ball python you own, I'm curious.

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OK. As I defined it earlier, I believe that in the overall concept of love, there are inherant building blocks. I used the words safe, secure, and emboldended. My BP has never had a problem with being held or me reaching into his cage or with me in any kind of way that I have noticed. He also seems to enjoy stretching out completely and me massaging his body. The conclusion that I come to in regards to my definition of love is he feels love towards me and his surroundings because he feels safe, secure, and emboldened.

I got into this discussion because I am troubled when people claim absolute understanding of a concept that is wholly fluid. Love, much like religion, has no one fundamental truth, but many subtle and underlying concepts which support it and I believe a few of those supports are the things I have mentioned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RWillinnable

OK. As I defined it earlier, I believe that in the overall concept of love, there are inherant building blocks. I used the words safe, secure, and emboldended. My BP has never had a problem with being held or me reaching into his cage or with me in any kind of way that I have noticed. He also seems to enjoy stretching out completely and me massaging his body. The conclusion that I come to in regards to my definition of love is he feels love towards me and his surroundings because he feels safe, secure, and emboldened.

I got into this discussion because I am troubled when people claim absolute understanding of a concept that is wholly fluid. Love, much like religion, has no one fundamental truth, but many subtle and underlying concepts which support it and I believe a few of those supports are the things I have mentioned.

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interesting perpective I doubt the masses will agree with you however but at least you state your beliefs.

personally I dont think your arguement holds any water whatsover and you could relate your thoughts to a stick insect or a spider for example, it does nothing to alter the perception of an emotional response in the creature.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RWillinnable

You seem to claim that love can encompass nothing more than what is in the text of the definition in the dictionary. Love is a concept that artists and scientists have since the beginning of recorded time tried to define. A legalistic and inflexible definition from some on-line dictionary does not settle the debate for me about what love is and is not and I hope it doesn't settle the debate for others either.

Your entire argument seems to say that if another being can not love the way that you love your boyfriend, family, pets and what-not, then whatever they feel can not be considered to be love. In that case then I am a bit offended by your hubris.

I think that your definition of love does diminish it as a total concept because I do feel that safety, security, and emboldenment are parts of the overall concept of love. Maybe poets and authors do not wax on and on about these concepts, but try to experience love without them. That love would be like the proverbial house built on sand.

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assumption makes an *** out of you and me, btw.
what i was saying is that if you want to put a snakes usually one track mind on my level of 'love' than wow you're out of prespective.
dilly dally all you want with philosophy, snakes have none.
really- go watch the dog wisperer or something, then maybe you can learn no matter what people think, animals are not people and do not respond the way people do. simple.

*and yes, crowley gets 'seemingly' excited when i run my finger down his spine and arches his back. what could this mean? if someone did that to me i'd jump also. he also streatches out on me when i hold him, or clings to my neck- but oh wait! he also stretches out a lot in his cage AND clings around the outside of his hides! gee golly!

I think he loves ya too! Cause if you REALLY knew what he was thinking of You... Ohh Boy!.... That be 1 homeless snake. lol JUST KIDDING


Hope I didn't make you mad w/that.. My snakelooks so cute right now, cause he's about to shed, he's rubbing his nose on the glass to loosing the skin.

I just wanna poke him and say " hey snake..look :colbert: " And that! Was how America was won buy the French.."


:banana: Where he @???Where he @???Peanut butter Jelly Time,Peanut butter Jelly Time, PeanutButterJelly,PeanutButterJelly, PeanutButterJelly With A BaseBall Bat!

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Originally Posted by RWillinnable

I got into this discussion because I am troubled when people claim absolute understanding of a concept that is wholly fluid. Love, much like religion, has no one fundamental truth, but many subtle and underlying concepts which support it and I believe a few of those supports are the things I have mentioned.

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Horse wash. get off of you're blazing saddle and quit acting like you have a PhD in Aesthetic Philosophy or something similar because I can assure you you do not. So until you have some actual 'scholar' time and can put out some text on your 'beliefs' and have them approved by people of better standing then. just dont.

of course religion has no one fundamental truth. there are multiple religions.

i dont believe any of this gollap you have produced means (edit: anything). are you a poet? are you a writer. in all my ten years of writing stories and poetry have i ever used your tag-tails for love in my prose. i really dont know of others who have or directly state that to be secure is love. now, can you feel secure about something and love that? then yes. do i think a snake has a 'i love security' bit in his brain? no. i do however, think that a snake and his body would prefer the lesser stress level of security. so 'call it what you will' no matter how you poets and writers dolly it up- there is always the basic cold calculating but yet beautiful clockwork of these animals. no, they do not feel love- seriously- but its not hard to percieve that they do.

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Originally Posted by Waldorf_301

I think he loves ya too! Cause if you REALLY knew what he was thinking of You... Ohh Boy!.... That be 1 homeless snake. lol JUST KIDDING


Hope I didn't make you mad w/that.. My snakelooks so cute right now, cause he's about to shed, he's rubbing his nose on the glass to loosing the skin.

I just wanna poke him and say " hey snake..look :colbert: " And that! Was how America was won buy the French.."


:banana: Where he @???Where he @???Peanut butter Jelly Time,Peanut butter Jelly Time, PeanutButterJelly,PeanutButterJelly, PeanutButterJelly With A BaseBall Bat!

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agreed

FREAKING A! ITS PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME OH MY GOOOOOD!!!
(i used to think that every time i saw the banana! but that dancing carrot threw me off.)

Yeah I saw the carrot and I was like " oh, k" then I saw the banana ! and then I knew..... OH YEAH, IT'S ON !!!!!!!!

Hey folks....so far, we've had a very calm and deliberate debate going here. Let's keep it that way. We don't need to tell people how qualified they are to post an opinion based on how much education they have. People are free to believe what they wish, regardless...and so long as it fits within the framework of this site, they are free to express it here as well.


It doesn't do anyone any good to get yourself so worked up over something that someone else believes and your angst isn't going to change their mind. (The "you" in this sentence is to everyone in general and not to any single person.)

My personal opinion (and I tried hard to stay out of this, but since I have to post here anyhow...) is that snakes and other reptiles are incapable of feeling "love" as we know it and understand it. Or loyalty or companionship or any of the other "warm & fuzzy" feelings we like to attribute to our pets. However, I do think it is the height of pride (hubris, if you will :P ) to suggest that snakes are incapable of any feelings/emotion whatsoever. To assume that just because they are biologically primitive and have small brains that there is no function for some sort of feelings, I think, is just as wishful thinking as to assume they can love us just because we want them to. We simply can't know all that goes on within them....or any other creature.

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Originally Posted by snakey68

interesting perpective I doubt the masses will agree with you however but at least you state your beliefs.

personally I dont think your arguement holds any water whatsover and you could relate your thoughts to a stick insect or a spider for example, it does nothing to alter the perception of an emotional response in the creature.

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I do apply my definition of love to all, even to the least sophisticated microbe. I think it makes the world a more interesting place. I could be wrong on all this. It is just my opinion.

Now, I am more interested in seeing some Daytona pics. Those are some phreaking hot looking snakes!!!

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Originally Posted by jessie_k_pythons

I'm much warmer then every one in the house and that I smell like mice and rats.

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BINGO!!!!

even though it is opinion, etc etc, if we can kindly look to the poll's results it seems people with more experience with bps voted 'no love'. ironic?

either way, as 'philosophical' as this debate was (or could be anyways) it was amusing.

Personally my opinion is that snakes dont feel love towards there owners, as has already been stated here they operate on instinct alone.
Saying that though we cant just say because they have small brains they have no emotions what so ever, parrots for example eg :African greys they have a brain the size of a walnut but are one of the most intelligent of animals and science studies have found that African grey have the intelligence of a 5 year old and the emotions of a 3/4 year old

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Originally Posted by steveo

Personally my opinion is that snakes dont feel love towards there owners, as has already been stated here they operate on instinct alone.
Saying that though we cant just say because they have small brains they have no emotions what so ever, parrots for example eg :African greys they have a brain the size of a walnut but are one of the most intelligent of animals and science studies have found that African grey have the intelligence of a 5 year old and the emotions of a 3/4 year old

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I dont think anyone here is saying they dont- trust me, i bet crowley gets hot to trot when he hears that mouse thumping around his hide!

African Grey's are very clever little animals- along with pigs- I used to think that dolphins were also intelligent, but someone new has suggested prehaps not so considering they can be 'trapped' in fishing nets where the tuna intentionally hunted have no problem flinging themselves over the rim. dolphins do not......?

I don't know what I think. I believe that snakes are capable of recognizing different people, and feeling more comfortable with certain people. There was actually a study on retics that showed they were able to recognize different people, becoming extremely defensive around new people, and just calmly coming out of the cage to their owner. My Olive python I believe is capable of recognizing different people, and remembering who they are. I know people will tell me I am wrong, but several people that come over here comment on how remarkable it is that the snakes seem to recognize me. So in one sense, yes I think snakes can show love in their own way. I don't believe it is in the same way we show love, but I do believe they can show comfort with their owners.

I agree with Dougie. I don't think snakes are capable of 'love' (although my friend insists that my snake hates the world...), I do think they recognize those that hold them all the time. My Children's python is VERY defensive and jumpy when anyone else but me holds her, even if hand her off to the other person.


But then again, my brother's corn snake doesn't seem to react different to anyone at all....hm...now that makes me question my whole opinion...lol

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Originally Posted by SilentTigress

I agree with Dougie. I don't think snakes are capable of 'love' (although my friend insists that my snake hates the world...), I do think they recognize those that hold them all the time. My Children's python is VERY defensive and jumpy when anyone else but me holds her, even if hand her off to the other person.


But then again, my brother's corn snake doesn't seem to react different to anyone at all....hm...now that makes me question my whole opinion...lol

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Well there are really laid back people that don't care one way or the other.. maybe the corns a nihilist(sp) lol. if one is to assume they have personalities then the possibilities are endless. cybil and ben hate to initially be picked up but afterwards 'enjoy' 'splorin'. jadis is as sweet as a snake could be, same with crowl-ster.

i know my bps love me after a good feeding and my lil one loves to wrap around my hair when its in a bun... and so does the big one but i really cant allow him to do that since he is like 1300 grams ...

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Originally Posted by kittyish

i know my bps love me after a good feeding and my lil one loves to wrap around my hair when its in a bun... and so does the big one but i really cant allow him to do that since he is like 1300 grams ...

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http://www.boxchamp.com/forum/style_...oxchamp/81.gif and how exactly do your Bp's express their love for you after feeding ? http://www.boxchamp.com/forum/style_...oxchamp/18.gif

I'd have to agree with Ansli. Once we start claiming personality, the rest is endless. Ophi adores being out, and fights to get out as often as possible. Hadrian spends more time under his hide and will fight to get back in. Ody is content either way...

I think, in their own way, they love me just like I love them and even if they don't have emotions or personalities, etc, I can continue to care for them and love them. My own father swears she truly does love me. (Ophi!)

[QUOTE=shhhli] So until you have some actual 'scholar' time and can put out some text on your 'beliefs' and have them approved by people of better standing then. just dont.

Do you have any "scholar" time?:confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snakey68

http://www.boxchamp.com/forum/style_...oxchamp/81.gif and how exactly do your Bp's express their love for you after feeding ? http://www.boxchamp.com/forum/style_...oxchamp/18.gif

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Well sometimes its hard to show emotions, snakes are modest animals. They do show emotions, humans need to stop being one minded dwits... selfish creatures we are, only thinking "us have this, us have that, us us US" :cool: :rolleye2:

[QUOTE=jbo901]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shhhli

So until you have some actual 'scholar' time and can put out some text on your 'beliefs' and have them approved by people of better standing then. just dont.

Do you have any "scholar" time?:confused:

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Do you have proof? People say the reason why snakes have no feelings is because they are missing a piece of the brain that is the "emotion" box. HELLO, animals all have different body parts and unique creatures. We are all not physically the same, our DNA is not the same. We cannot proofly prove that snakes have no emotions, we cannot touch their brain and ask them " what do you feel?" they cannot speak. Its like scientists who say there is no God, but we all know that their is:D (Yet my belief, just liek your beliefs about no God, or none feeling snakes) Just let us believers believe and you none believers not believe. Capeesh? Or do you "none believers" always want to prove that you are always right? Just let it go.:mad:

If I seriously did believe they had feelings and emotions, I would never agree to keep them in small boxes with nothing naturalistic in them. I believe that they have no cares about anything emotional or aesthetic, which is why it's OK to keep them in plain, unadorned and un-naturalistic setups; they don't care. It would break my heart if smoeone kept a human in such basic, non-sensory-stimulating, blank setups; but since snakes don't have emotion or other human traits, it is OK.

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Originally Posted by Sapphire7

We cannot proofly prove that snakes have no emotions,

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Huh???:confused:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

If I seriously did believe they had feelings and emotions, I would never agree to keep them in small boxes with nothing naturalistic in them. I believe that they have no cares about anything emotional or aesthetic, which is why it's OK to keep them in plain, unadorned and un-naturalistic setups; they don't care. It would break my heart if smoeone kept a human in such basic, non-sensory-stimulating, blank setups; but since snakes don't have emotion or other human traits, it is OK.

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But how do you honestly know that the snake is ok with being kept like that? The point people here are tyring to make (not taking sides) is how in the hell can you proof that what you are saying if even somewhat correct? Just because the majority agrees?

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Originally Posted by Kilo

But how do you honestly know that the snake is ok with being kept like that? The point people here are tyring to make (not taking sides) is how in the hell can you proof that what you are saying if even somewhat correct? Just because the majority agrees?

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No one can prove snakes don't have emotions....because it is impossible to prove a negative. All anyone can go by is the evidence provided by scientific studies and by personal obvservation....neither of which are capable of fully proving or disproving either point.

However, the BULK of the evidence would suggest that snakes have no capacity for experiencing complex emotions like "love" or even "affection." Scientific evidence, such as a tiny, relatively primitive brain structure...and personal observation of animals thriving in "plain" captive conditions would suggest that the snakes really don't care if they have fake plastic vines in their territory.

If some people want to use "personal observation" of their snake coming willingly to their hand when its placed into their enclosure as proof of some sort of emotional preference....well, more power to 'em.

I do believe there is far more to emotional make-up than scientists can possibly know...and it would be quite prideful to assert that snakes feel NOTHING simply because we have no comprehension of their ability to feel or what they might feel. But based on the preponderance of the evidence we do have available, I choose to believe they can thrive just fine in a plastic tub with the proper environment set up, no matter how "sterile" it might appear to us emotional humans.

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Originally Posted by Kilo

But how do you honestly know that the snake is ok with being kept like that? The point people here are tyring to make (not taking sides) is how in the hell can you proof that what you are saying if even somewhat correct? Just because the majority agrees?

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If a ball python thrives in a simplistic setup, wouldn't that mean it was okay with it? If it "didn't like it," don't you think there would be repercussions? I.E., stress. Look at breeders like Adam, NERD, etc. Their ball pythons are kept in simplistic setups, and they eat, shed, poop, breed, etc. I think that's a good way of judging if your snake "likes" his home.

Judy and Jason: I'm not disagreeing with you guys/girls at all! I house my snakes in tubs also. I was just asking... if we could proof wether or not they mind it. But yet again Judy drops the knowledge bomb and teaches me a lesson. Thanks for taking the time to shed some light on my questions.

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Originally Posted by Kilo

But how do you honestly know that the snake is ok with being kept like that? The point people here are tyring to make (not taking sides) is how in the hell can you proof that what you are saying if even somewhat correct? Just because the majority agrees?

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1. If my snake eats every week.
2. If it shows no signs of regurge, RI, etc...
3. (Once they are older) If they breed with no complications...

Oh let me wade in here LOL. I would say I agree mostly with Judy's thoughts on this matter and strongly disagree with some of the posts calling snakes "mindless". Typical human belief system that we are this totally superior being and anything that isn't just like us is therefore "mindless".

Snakes may not have the capacity to show love as humans do, not because they are mindless but simply because nature didn't require they do so to thrive. They are perfectly developed for their place in our world and have a brain/mind just as fully developed for that place as we do for ours.

Do my snakes love me. Not likely and not in any way I could ever perceive so that's a moot point anyways. They are reactive to me in the only way they can be. I appreciate and honor their interactions with me for what they are, not trying to read human emotion into a non-human yet fully functional and developed creature of this world.

I voted yes my snake loves me! Even though I dont think snakes are capable of such a complex emotion as love (heck a lot of humans cant even manage that one) I do believe that they can form bonds and begin to trust thier owner. Often times you will see a snake acting very docile in the hands of its owner, but when a stranger reaches over to hold it the snake becomes very timid, or aggresive.

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Originally Posted by Cady

Often times you will see a snake acting very docile in the hands of its owner, but when a stranger reaches over to hold it the snake becomes very timid, or aggresive.

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I have experienced the complete opposite before....does that mean that my snake hates me? :)

No...lol

Some thoughts:

My BP ~loves~ her privacy.
She ~loves~ me for allowing and providing her that privacy.

Emotions are also called feelings, right? If one can feel, one can emote. Anything with a nervous system can obviously feel. It's a matter of opinion whether or not to think that "to feel" equates with "having feelings." I think that love is such a strong emotion for humans (and other mammals), because we are warm blooded and feel that blood very strongly in our hearts, and therefore the nerves that are deeply connected to that circulatory system. Snakes are built so differently. Being cold blooded, they have no warmth to share with others like we do. They express their love toward places in their environment that provide warmth and safety.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Oh let me wade in here LOL. I would say I agree mostly with Judy's thoughts on this matter and strongly disagree with some of the posts calling snakes "mindless". Typical human belief system that we are this totally superior being and anything that isn't just like us is therefore "mindless".

Snakes may not have the capacity to show love as humans do, not because they are mindless but simply because nature didn't require they do so to thrive. They are perfectly developed for their place in our world and have a brain/mind just as fully developed for that place as we do for ours.

Do my snakes love me. Not likely and not in any way I could ever perceive so that's a moot point anyways. They are reactive to me in the only way they can be. I appreciate and honor their interactions with me for what they are, not trying to read human emotion into a non-human yet fully functional and developed creature of this world.

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i think this pretty much sums up anything i tried in vain to say.
perfect.
awesome post.